Anonymous
11/15/2023 16:59
Subject: Re:Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:I really hate College Park.
Crap hole.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 16:53
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:VA is definitely in the top 3 as far as public education at the college level. Its second tier schools JMU, GMU, etc, are better than a number of state flagships.
Berkeley, UCLA, and Michigan are clearly the top three. UVA is number 5 now, below UNC. Try to keep up.
Try to read. The state of Virginia is in the top 3 states in the US with respect to public education options. Schools like JMU and GMU are better options than Ole Miss or Mizzou.
Is JMU really better than Mizzou?
In many rankings they are basically the same. However, Mizzou is their state's Flagship. JMU is largely considered the #4/5 school in VA.
I assume that means that there are probably some really smart kids at Mizzou since it’s the best public school in the state.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:45
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:With VT now being in the top 50 in the US news, expect it will get only worse.
This year’s USNWR rankings are not based on academics and are irrelevant to many posters on DCUM.
Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier.
No USNWR changed the methodology and it's now largely non-academic.
Removing class size and high school ranking (if it's done) and portion of professors with terminal degrees IMO is important (HS ranking not as much so---but that's still there with GPA, etc). Class size is very telling of the quality of academics offered at a school. NO way you can convince me that a typical class with 30-40 students is not a much better learning experience than one with 500+ students (given the same quality of professor---obviously a bad prof is bad in all instances). It's simply a very different learning environment and no expert would try to convince you that the 500+ environment is better.
Adding in Pell Grant graduation rates really does not demonstrate how one school is better than the other, given that outside factors for those students are often the reason they don't graduate on time, not what the university does or doesn't do.
All it means is that State universities jumped in the rankings and private, less than 15K undergrad universities lost placement. That is mostly an indicator of class size and terminal degree. DOn't know about you but I prefer my kids to sit in classes with 25-50 kids where they can actively learn during a lecture and be engaged with a professor who is an expert in their field, not the TA who is a first year graduate student.
You sound like every other class in State U has 500+ students. Which they obvious don’t. Your argument is specious.
In my experience, fresh/soph year for STEM/CS/Eng majors, that is the case for the core sequences or at least 200-300+. And IMO, once you hit 100+, and then again at 200+, you are not in an environment that includes engagement during the lecture. So first 2 years 3 of your 4 courses are exactly like that. And the ones that aren't are not typically 25 students at a large state U, unless you are a Russian Lit major.
And at the smaller private Universities, my kids are/have been taught by actual professors for all their courses. It's the Profs who hold office hours (so do TAs who run discussions/help with the course, but the profs always have weekly hours as well). My kid can easily schedule a meeting with their advisor the same day or next day. In fact, they had an advisor in their major assigned before they arrived on campus freshman year, who helped with course selection for fall freshman year.
I think the above adds great value to your education. And while I do care that a University is making an effort to ensure low income kids graduate, I'm smart enough to recognize that ultimately that depends upon many factors outside the university's control. So it's not an important part of "college quality"
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:36
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
Maybe the OOS acceptance rate is higher for VT and JMU because the OOS kids who *are* applying have higher stats on average than the in-state kids. Is that a possibllity?
It's a possibility. But more likely is that if they want X out of state students to enroll, they know the yield will be much lower, so they have to admit more to achieve that. I'm no longer in VA, and I can tell you JMU and even VT are not on kid's lists for OOS schools. They are not a UMich or UWisconsin. So I suspect they may be safety/give it a whirl school choices for some in case they dont' get into something better.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:34
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
JMU "which is just good" according to you is ranked similar to many state's Flagship/top public school. So JMU #4 is equivalent to Other State #1.
So by definition, VA has many good options. They have 3 top options and their #4/5 are about the same as many states Top public. Most would love to have the options VA has.
DP here: agreed. No one can say Virginia is suffering for a lack of excellent public colleges/universities.
Showing preference to OOS students is another matter. Start working on your legislature to tighten it up via law. California is putting Californians first. Florida is putting Floridians first. There's no reason Virginia shouldn't be doing the same.
GO for it. Just be aware you will likely see higher in-state tuition as well. The money has to come from somewhere. Or they will eliminate staff/professors/services, so you will see larger class sizes and have less access to your advisors/etc. You can make it happen, but most likely you will see an increase in tuition to offset that
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:31
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
JMU "which is just good" according to you is ranked similar to many state's Flagship/top public school. So JMU #4 is equivalent to Other State #1.
So by definition, VA has many good options. They have 3 top options and their #4/5 are about the same as many states Top public. Most would love to have the options VA has.
DP here: agreed. No one can say Virginia is suffering for a lack of excellent public colleges/universities.
Showing preference to OOS students is another matter. Start working on your legislature to tighten it up via law. California is putting Californians first. Florida is putting Floridians first. There's no reason Virginia shouldn't be doing the same.
California’s population is more than four times Virginia’s and Florida’s is more than three times Virginia’s. You’re comparing apples and oranges. There are plenty of seats in VA colleges for VA residents.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:29
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.
Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3
Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest
Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.
Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)
Thank you for proving what majority have been stating all along! VA has it good, better than everywhere else actually
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:29
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:With VT now being in the top 50 in the US news, expect it will get only worse.
This year’s USNWR rankings are not based on academics and are irrelevant to many posters on DCUM.
Only because the second tier private schools that they’ve been sending the kids to have finally been revealed for what they are, which is second-tier.
No USNWR changed the methodology and it's now largely non-academic.
Removing class size and high school ranking (if it's done) and portion of professors with terminal degrees IMO is important (HS ranking not as much so---but that's still there with GPA, etc). Class size is very telling of the quality of academics offered at a school. NO way you can convince me that a typical class with 30-40 students is not a much better learning experience than one with 500+ students (given the same quality of professor---obviously a bad prof is bad in all instances). It's simply a very different learning environment and no expert would try to convince you that the 500+ environment is better.
Adding in Pell Grant graduation rates really does not demonstrate how one school is better than the other, given that outside factors for those students are often the reason they don't graduate on time, not what the university does or doesn't do.
All it means is that State universities jumped in the rankings and private, less than 15K undergrad universities lost placement. That is mostly an indicator of class size and terminal degree. DOn't know about you but I prefer my kids to sit in classes with 25-50 kids where they can actively learn during a lecture and be engaged with a professor who is an expert in their field, not the TA who is a first year graduate student.
You sound like every other class in State U has 500+ students. Which they obvious don’t. Your argument is specious.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:27
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.
Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3
So move to CA, FL, NJ or NY. Let us know how that goes. If you think UVA/VAtech/W&M are difficult to get into, let us know how the top UC experience is.
Also, CA and FL have significantly larger populations than VA, so I would expect them to have more public universities.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:24
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
Maybe the OOS acceptance rate is higher for VT and JMU because the OOS kids who *are* applying have higher stats on average than the in-state kids. Is that a possibllity?
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:24
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
JMU "which is just good" according to you is ranked similar to many state's Flagship/top public school. So JMU #4 is equivalent to Other State #1.
So by definition, VA has many good options. They have 3 top options and their #4/5 are about the same as many states Top public. Most would love to have the options VA has.
DP here: agreed. No one can say Virginia is suffering for a lack of excellent public colleges/universities.
Showing preference to OOS students is another matter. Start working on your legislature to tighten it up via law. California is putting Californians first. Florida is putting Floridians first. There's no reason Virginia shouldn't be doing the same.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:23
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
JMU "which is just good" according to you is ranked similar to many state's Flagship/top public school. So JMU #4 is equivalent to Other State #1.
So by definition, VA has many good options. They have 3 top options and their #4/5 are about the same as many states Top public. Most would love to have the options VA has.
The big difference between Virginia and other states is the size of the flagship. In states with big flagships, kids who would go to JMU in Virginia go to the number 1 school because it takes as many instate students as UVA, W&M, VT, JMU combined because Virginia does not force public schools to preference instate nearly as strongly as other states
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:23
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
They accept more OOS because the yield is much lower for OOS. And they want/need OOS students to help college more tuition $$$.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:21
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:OP here again.
Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:
(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.
(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.
And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:
VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%
This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.
JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%
So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)
I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.
JMU "which is just good" according to you is ranked similar to many state's Flagship/top public school. So JMU #4 is equivalent to Other State #1.
So by definition, VA has many good options. They have 3 top options and their #4/5 are about the same as many states Top public. Most would love to have the options VA has.
Anonymous
11/15/2023 15:18
Subject: Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:VA is definitely in the top 3 as far as public education at the college level. Its second tier schools JMU, GMU, etc, are better than a number of state flagships.
Berkeley, UCLA, and Michigan are clearly the top three. UVA is number 5 now, below UNC. Try to keep up.
Try to read. The state of Virginia is in the top 3 states in the US with respect to public education options. Schools like JMU and GMU are better options than Ole Miss or Mizzou.
Is JMU really better than Mizzou?
In many rankings they are basically the same. However, Mizzou is their state's Flagship. JMU is largely considered the #4/5 school in VA.