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Anonymous wrote:I think it is a bit much to criticize paying gym members for....using their gym memberships! That's ridiculous. Lifetime is expensive, they should expect more people to show up and use their facilities for $200/month then Planet Fitness.

Who is criticizing them? People are pointing out the logic of Liftetime's decision to add a new offering, even if that means removing a less profitable one used by some people. They want to appeal to a new market and potentially new members more than they care about the drain families place on aging amenities. It's baffling that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that things change and gyms are chasing fads because they are probably bleeding money. They don't care to have families spending hours and hours a day hanging out with a fixed price membership that doesn't result in any extra revenue for such heavy usage.

PP was complaining about kids "hanging out" at the gym for 3-4 hours. They are paying customers.

People like that are taking advantage. Like the people who sit in Starbucks all day and get one cup of coffee, hoarding a table. They also argue they are "paying customers" but they are taking advantage. Starbucks and gyms don't value customers like that.

What!? People paying for a gym membership and then going to the gym and using the offered amenities are "taking advantage'? WTF?

Yes. Spending all day every day is not the ideal customer for the gym. Do you not understand that businesses target specific types of customers, demographics, and behaviors? Out are the teen loiterers, in are the new memberships of people who are in and out. It's a business, not a half-way house charity.

The teenagers are paying customers.

Are they? What are they buying?

A membership (via their parents, most likely, but that counts). I would think that is obvious.
But, additionally, I'm sure they are doing the teen events (movie nights) and buying stuff from the snack bars.

A family of 4 with 2 teens is about $259/month. A empty nest family is $189/month for a basic membership. You can't see how targeting some demographics might make more sense? More money, fewer people. If that family of 4 was paying $378 then it would be more fair and accurate to say they are paying customers. They are getting a huge discount as family members which may no longer be sustainable.

But by putting in pickleball, they anticipate replacing the family of four for $259, with the empty next family for $189 and adding 2-4 additional individual seniors at $129/mo or perhaps they give a senior rate and charge $109 per month. Either way, they may chase away one family, but the gamble is that they will be making more from individuals.

Additionally they can run a pickleball league and get another 50-60 people paying $30 each for league play.

The point is that they have decided that converting the basketball courts to pickleball courts is likely to be financially advantageous over leaving them as basketball courts.

And just because they eliminate the basketball courts does not mean that all families are going to bail. Some families will continue because the parents use the gym and the teens still come to hang out, hit the snack bar and play other things besides basketball. The assumption that every or even many families are going to cancel their membership because their teens have no basketball courts or rock walls is not very likely.

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Anonymous wrote:I think it is a bit much to criticize paying gym members for....using their gym memberships! That's ridiculous. Lifetime is expensive, they should expect more people to show up and use their facilities for $200/month then Planet Fitness.

Who is criticizing them? People are pointing out the logic of Liftetime's decision to add a new offering, even if that means removing a less profitable one used by some people. They want to appeal to a new market and potentially new members more than they care about the drain families place on aging amenities. It's baffling that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that things change and gyms are chasing fads because they are probably bleeding money. They don't care to have families spending hours and hours a day hanging out with a fixed price membership that doesn't result in any extra revenue for such heavy usage.

PP was complaining about kids "hanging out" at the gym for 3-4 hours. They are paying customers.

People like that are taking advantage. Like the people who sit in Starbucks all day and get one cup of coffee, hoarding a table. They also argue they are "paying customers" but they are taking advantage. Starbucks and gyms don't value customers like that.

What!? People paying for a gym membership and then going to the gym and using the offered amenities are "taking advantage'? WTF?

Yes. Spending all day every day is not the ideal customer for the gym. Do you not understand that businesses target specific types of customers, demographics, and behaviors? Out are the teen loiterers, in are the new memberships of people who are in and out. It's a business, not a half-way house charity.

The teenagers are paying customers.

Are they? What are they buying?

A membership (via their parents, most likely, but that counts). I would think that is obvious.
But, additionally, I'm sure they are doing the teen events (movie nights) and buying stuff from the snack bars.

A family of 4 with 2 teens is about $259/month. A empty nest family is $189/month for a basic membership. You can't see how targeting some demographics might make more sense? More money, fewer people. If that family of 4 was paying $378 then it would be more fair and accurate to say they are paying customers. They are getting a huge discount as family members which may no longer be sustainable.

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Anonymous wrote:I think it is a bit much to criticize paying gym members for....using their gym memberships! That's ridiculous. Lifetime is expensive, they should expect more people to show up and use their facilities for $200/month then Planet Fitness.

Who is criticizing them? People are pointing out the logic of Liftetime's decision to add a new offering, even if that means removing a less profitable one used by some people. They want to appeal to a new market and potentially new members more than they care about the drain families place on aging amenities. It's baffling that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that things change and gyms are chasing fads because they are probably bleeding money. They don't care to have families spending hours and hours a day hanging out with a fixed price membership that doesn't result in any extra revenue for such heavy usage.

PP was complaining about kids "hanging out" at the gym for 3-4 hours. They are paying customers.

People like that are taking advantage. Like the people who sit in Starbucks all day and get one cup of coffee, hoarding a table. They also argue they are "paying customers" but they are taking advantage. Starbucks and gyms don't value customers like that.

What!? People paying for a gym membership and then going to the gym and using the offered amenities are "taking advantage'? WTF?

Yes. Spending all day every day is not the ideal customer for the gym. Do you not understand that businesses target specific types of customers, demographics, and behaviors? Out are the teen loiterers, in are the new memberships of people who are in and out. It's a business, not a half-way house charity.

The teenagers are paying customers.

Are they? What are they buying?

A membership (via their parents, most likely, but that counts). I would think that is obvious.
But, additionally, I'm sure they are doing the teen events (movie nights) and buying stuff from the snack bars.

You're sure they are? Weird they are cutting off this very important demographic. Seems like they just want to go under then according to you if this is really their bread and butter.

Anonymous wrote:Its a little sad how defensive that one pickleball guy is about his hobby. Its cool, dude! You do you. Get on with your 3.5 whatever that is self.

He is really cringe trying to sell pickleball. I've played people like him (4.0 here) and it's nauseating. Slapper who can't slice and has no touch. Too much ego. Yes, there are some great tennis folks who are great at and enjoy pickleball. The vast, vast majority are just enthusiasts who like how easy it is to pick up, how social it is, and how you don't really need to move all that much (so, lots of old people like it). The real athletes in hoi polloi are playing platform tennis, padel, squash and racquetball as their second racquet sport.

So just tell it like it is. It's a bit of a fad, it's really annoying to others (it's very loud, and is being banned in outdoor parks), but yeah, it's great for certain demographics to get a bit of exercise and for some people, a bit of ego lift when they get to go be the Big Man at Pickle in their League. King Sour.

Gyms can do what they want; it just seems very shortsighted to cater to one demographic. I would say the same thing if gyms started overhauling their setups to be all yoga studios -- they're going to lose other people. That's fine. People are elastic with where they can go and spend their money. Gym renovation costs and overhead--not so much.

They don't mind if you "loiter" to use pp's term for a club member, as long as you are sipping a $12 smoothie.

While the vitriol against older people might not be justified, being upset when a business takes away a valued service is understandable. We canceled our Lifetime membership in another area when the pandemic started, but before that, the basketball courts were always crowded. I'm sure there is demand for pickleball, but I also wonder if adding courts is a way to increase revenue by adding new charges on top of the already high membership dues to reserve courts or play in leagues (less open play). You can't do that with open-play basketball courts.

On the other hand, my teens spent a fortune at the Cafe. I wonder how many older pickleball players do that?

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Anonymous wrote:I think it is a bit much to criticize paying gym members for....using their gym memberships! That's ridiculous. Lifetime is expensive, they should expect more people to show up and use their facilities for $200/month then Planet Fitness.

Who is criticizing them? People are pointing out the logic of Liftetime's decision to add a new offering, even if that means removing a less profitable one used by some people. They want to appeal to a new market and potentially new members more than they care about the drain families place on aging amenities. It's baffling that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that things change and gyms are chasing fads because they are probably bleeding money. They don't care to have families spending hours and hours a day hanging out with a fixed price membership that doesn't result in any extra revenue for such heavy usage.

PP was complaining about kids "hanging out" at the gym for 3-4 hours. They are paying customers.

People like that are taking advantage. Like the people who sit in Starbucks all day and get one cup of coffee, hoarding a table. They also argue they are "paying customers" but they are taking advantage. Starbucks and gyms don't value customers like that.

What!? People paying for a gym membership and then going to the gym and using the offered amenities are "taking advantage'? WTF?

Yes. Spending all day every day is not the ideal customer for the gym. Do you not understand that businesses target specific types of customers, demographics, and behaviors? Out are the teen loiterers, in are the new memberships of people who are in and out. It's a business, not a half-way house charity.

The teenagers are paying customers.

Are they? What are they buying?

A membership (via their parents, most likely, but that counts). I would think that is obvious.
But, additionally, I'm sure they are doing the teen events (movie nights) and buying stuff from the snack bars.

It's a business. They are likely making plenty of money especially if the gyms are full. But their number crunchers think they have a strategy that will make even more money.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is a bit much to criticize paying gym members for....using their gym memberships! That's ridiculous. Lifetime is expensive, they should expect more people to show up and use their facilities for $200/month then Planet Fitness.

Who is criticizing them? People are pointing out the logic of Liftetime's decision to add a new offering, even if that means removing a less profitable one used by some people. They want to appeal to a new market and potentially new members more than they care about the drain families place on aging amenities. It's baffling that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that things change and gyms are chasing fads because they are probably bleeding money. They don't care to have families spending hours and hours a day hanging out with a fixed price membership that doesn't result in any extra revenue for such heavy usage.

PP was complaining about kids "hanging out" at the gym for 3-4 hours. They are paying customers.

People like that are taking advantage. Like the people who sit in Starbucks all day and get one cup of coffee, hoarding a table. They also argue they are "paying customers" but they are taking advantage. Starbucks and gyms don't value customers like that.

What!? People paying for a gym membership and then going to the gym and using the offered amenities are "taking advantage'? WTF?

Yes, the PP is way off base. Lifetime advertises itself as a luxury athletic country club and charges members accordingly. It's not a basic in-and-out basic gym.

You don't think Lifetime has a customer profile? Sounds like if families are using the facilities way more often than other customers they should just charge the more than other types of members.

I doubt families are using the facilities more or less than other paying customers. They are just using different facilities. Teenagers are playing basketball, but they aren't taking seats from people in a spin class or clogging up the hot tub.

Ok, from your perspective this is a baffling move that you seriously can't comprehend. Time to take it to the management since you know best.

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Anonymous wrote:Whether you love it or hate it, it's THE fastest growing sport in the country .

You can generate a lot more revenue, advertise, host clinics, lease to leagues, etc with indoor pickleball courts.

The rock wall was probably an expensive liability that didn't pay off and just a money-suck for them.

From a business model, converting to pickleball courts was a smart move.

I didn't care about pickleball either way but it does seem to be crowding out all the existing usual sports like basketball, tennis and for some reason pickleball people seem to stir controversy everywhere, why is that?

Because they suck at life

It’s unfortunate that there is so much animosity against our older population. We should be thrilled that retirees are staying active. Although I don’t agree with converting all courts to pickle ball, I do think having options for older people is important. At the end of the day, it is lifetimes decision and they’ll see if it pays off. I personally would have surveyed cisterns customers and the community. And maybe they did which is why they decided to do this.

They did NOT survey the customers. At all. Even once. Never.

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Anonymous wrote:I think it is a bit much to criticize paying gym members for....using their gym memberships! That's ridiculous. Lifetime is expensive, they should expect more people to show up and use their facilities for $200/month then Planet Fitness.

Who is criticizing them? People are pointing out the logic of Liftetime's decision to add a new offering, even if that means removing a less profitable one used by some people. They want to appeal to a new market and potentially new members more than they care about the drain families place on aging amenities. It's baffling that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that things change and gyms are chasing fads because they are probably bleeding money. They don't care to have families spending hours and hours a day hanging out with a fixed price membership that doesn't result in any extra revenue for such heavy usage.

PP was complaining about kids "hanging out" at the gym for 3-4 hours. They are paying customers.

People like that are taking advantage. Like the people who sit in Starbucks all day and get one cup of coffee, hoarding a table. They also argue they are "paying customers" but they are taking advantage. Starbucks and gyms don't value customers like that.

What!? People paying for a gym membership and then going to the gym and using the offered amenities are "taking advantage'? WTF?

Yes. Spending all day every day is not the ideal customer for the gym. Do you not understand that businesses target specific types of customers, demographics, and behaviors? Out are the teen loiterers, in are the new memberships of people who are in and out. It's a business, not a half-way house charity.

The teenagers are paying customers.

Are they? What are they buying?

Monthly memberships like everyone else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is a bit much to criticize paying gym members for....using their gym memberships! That's ridiculous. Lifetime is expensive, they should expect more people to show up and use their facilities for $200/month then Planet Fitness.

Who is criticizing them? People are pointing out the logic of Liftetime's decision to add a new offering, even if that means removing a less profitable one used by some people. They want to appeal to a new market and potentially new members more than they care about the drain families place on aging amenities. It's baffling that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that things change and gyms are chasing fads because they are probably bleeding money. They don't care to have families spending hours and hours a day hanging out with a fixed price membership that doesn't result in any extra revenue for such heavy usage.

PP was complaining about kids "hanging out" at the gym for 3-4 hours. They are paying customers.

People like that are taking advantage. Like the people who sit in Starbucks all day and get one cup of coffee, hoarding a table. They also argue they are "paying customers" but they are taking advantage. Starbucks and gyms don't value customers like that.

What!? People paying for a gym membership and then going to the gym and using the offered amenities are "taking advantage'? WTF?

Yes. Spending all day every day is not the ideal customer for the gym. Do you not understand that businesses target specific types of customers, demographics, and behaviors? Out are the teen loiterers, in are the new memberships of people who are in and out. It's a business, not a half-way house charity.

The teenagers are paying customers.

Are they? What are they buying?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I toured the Reston gym, that was actually their spiel. You don't have to join a country club-just join our gym. Take your kids to the childcare, then go to the spa, pick them up, get lunch, then go swim at the pool. Yada yada yada.

That works until new members stop signing up. Then they have to reconsider their model and find things that will bring the customer in. Pickleball, not basketball is the new model. Would you prefer it just go out of business if you can't play basketball?

The Reston gym is crowded all the time and very expensive. I just don't see how they would be going out of business. Like, the place is packed.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is a bit much to criticize paying gym members for....using their gym memberships! That's ridiculous. Lifetime is expensive, they should expect more people to show up and use their facilities for $200/month then Planet Fitness.

Who is criticizing them? People are pointing out the logic of Liftetime's decision to add a new offering, even if that means removing a less profitable one used by some people. They want to appeal to a new market and potentially new members more than they care about the drain families place on aging amenities. It's baffling that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that things change and gyms are chasing fads because they are probably bleeding money. They don't care to have families spending hours and hours a day hanging out with a fixed price membership that doesn't result in any extra revenue for such heavy usage.

PP was complaining about kids "hanging out" at the gym for 3-4 hours. They are paying customers.

People like that are taking advantage. Like the people who sit in Starbucks all day and get one cup of coffee, hoarding a table. They also argue they are "paying customers" but they are taking advantage. Starbucks and gyms don't value customers like that.

What!? People paying for a gym membership and then going to the gym and using the offered amenities are "taking advantage'? WTF?

Yes, the PP is way off base. Lifetime advertises itself as a luxury athletic country club and charges members accordingly. It's not a basic in-and-out basic gym.

You don't think Lifetime has a customer profile? Sounds like if families are using the facilities way more often than other customers they should just charge the more than other types of members.

I doubt families are using the facilities more or less than other paying customers. They are just using different facilities. Teenagers are playing basketball, but they aren't taking seats from people in a spin class or clogging up the hot tub.

Anonymous wrote:When I toured the Reston gym, that was actually their spiel. You don't have to join a country club-just join our gym. Take your kids to the childcare, then go to the spa, pick them up, get lunch, then go swim at the pool. Yada yada yada.

That works until new members stop signing up. Then they have to reconsider their model and find things that will bring the customer in. Pickleball, not basketball is the new model. Would you prefer it just go out of business if you can't play basketball?