Anonymous
07/21/2023 02:18
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.
Do you have any data to back this up?
This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.
The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.
I know what store you're talking about. This involved a african american man who went back to his home in NJ to be a science teacher while also selling drugs.
There is a lot more to the story than you told. smh.
I was a classmate and we had mutual friends, and the story is way too complicated for it to contain lessons relevant to this thread.
However, I was once your son. I actually graduated 2 months late due to a series of complications that are embarrassing and too tedious to put here but put me in summer school. I was the only one of my friends without a job offer at graduation, and I had zero financial backup from my parents. This was the days before full tuition grants for families under certain income thresholds, so instead of internships and resume-building jobs, I had to work at restaurants and other places to earn enough to cover what my parents couldn’t. Career services at the time restricted most on-campus recruiting by GPA so I couldn’t apply to 90% of the positions advertised.
I somehow slipped into a very low-paying but salaried job that was posted on the career services website and that no one else had applied to. It was not what I ever imagined myself doing but it was enough to live in a shared apartment in a big city and not go home to my parents’ house. After two years there, I saw a post on an alumni board looking for an assistant to replace an older alumni who was going to grad school. I got the job, which led to another job with tuition reimbursement. I used that to take classes at night to build up my GPA and applied to grad school. Yes, I had to use an optional essay to explain my undergrad stumbles, but it worked.
Many years later I am married to a fellow alumni of my alma mater who was an athlete from a prep school. His path was very different and far easier than mine. He didn’t even get into school the same way I did. His parents weren’t rich but he had money to fly home at breaks and eat at restaurants on the weekends. We were at the same school but we had very different experiences and he was able to get a lot more out of his education because of privileges he arrived with. In spite of his own bad grades, he only had to mention his career interest to an older teammate and he got an interview at a firm that hired him.
Don’t let your son compare his path to those other students’. It’s just not the same. Do tell your son that there is hope and that I was him 20 years ago.
Anonymous
07/20/2023 10:41
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I posted a few months ago about my son's looming graduation. Now he is home and moping around. He finally opened up that feels like an idiot, he's overwhelmed and he's humiliated compared to all of his overachieving classmates. He's scared to ask his more connected friends (and their parents) for help because his resume is so vacant and they seem so perfect. He knows he can apply for random entry-level jobs any random college grad can apply for but he feels like he has wasted the opportunity if he settles for anything.
I want to stress his resume is basically vacant outside of the new BA and his GPA is pretty abysmal, so he thinks he's going to be mocked or his resume will just be ignored.
Not to be rude, but a huge part of the problem here seems to be that both you and he think there's something really special or different about getting a job out of an Ivy League school than any other school. Sure, there are differences, but get over it.
Yes, he should absolutely contact his career services office.
How many 22 year old Ivy League graduates are minted each year? It is pretty rarefied air and some employers do actually pay a hefty premium to employ them.
This kind of stupid attitude is how he ended up where he is.
It’s not stupid at all. I know Harvard MBAs are recruited right out of school or at least they used to be. Do they have recruiters come in to talk to the undergraduates? Have you thought of graduate school? (Not law school, there are too many already)
Rare to get into an elite MBA program without a few years' working experience. OP's situation doesn't apply.
Law school enrollment is collapsing but ironically that may be a boon for OP. Today's declining enrollment may mean tomorrow's shortage. If he has a high LSAT he will get into a decent school and if he works at it, gets top grades and law review, will get 6 fig salary at a decent firm. However, major investment of time and money so he needs to he serious about it.
Anonymous
07/20/2023 10:18
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Any updates on your sons job search OP? My son is in the same boat.
Anonymous
07/20/2023 10:15
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, isn't it impossible he's depressed? If so, something that requires a ton of effort might be nearly impossible right now.
There are so many entry level fake jobs in tech and finance where you do basically nothing all day and make $75,000 plus fringe. Things have dried up a little from 2020-2022, but still, an Ivy degree opens those doors.
Please tell me how to find those jobs?
Anonymous
07/17/2023 21:44
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. on here might want to believe. It barely exists[/b]. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.
Do you have any data to back this up?
This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.
The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.
Meh. All the middle class HYPS athletes we know are crushing it professionally. No one has to stick their neck out much to get the Yale rower a job.
Rowing isn’t a middle class sport
Yep, here's Harvard's rowing roster:
https://gocrimson.com/sports/mens-heavyweight-rowing/roster
Does that look like a listing of "middle class" public schools to you?
Harvard shares the Charles River with public high schools including urban schools in Boston and Cambridge. You are out of touch.
Who is paying for boathouse access and expensive performance boats for a small team with zero ticket or concession sales?
Even if its a public school, the athletes have to pony up serious money. Yes, the river is freeish I guess (but you generally have to pay for boat house storage and entry access). [/quote
Friends of Harvard Rowing.
Friends of Harvard rowing is paying for all the public schools in Massachusetts rowing programs?
Anonymous
07/17/2023 19:44
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. on here might want to believe. It barely exists[/b]. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.
Do you have any data to back this up?
This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.
The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.
Meh. All the middle class HYPS athletes we know are crushing it professionally. No one has to stick their neck out much to get the Yale rower a job.
Rowing isn’t a middle class sport
Yep, here's Harvard's rowing roster:
https://gocrimson.com/sports/mens-heavyweight-rowing/roster
Does that look like a listing of "middle class" public schools to you?
Harvard shares the Charles River with public high schools including urban schools in Boston and Cambridge. You are out of touch.
Who is paying for boathouse access and expensive performance boats for a small team with zero ticket or concession sales?
Even if its a public school, the athletes have to pony up serious money. Yes, the river is freeish I guess (but you generally have to pay for boat house storage and entry access). [/quote
Friends of Harvard Rowing.
Anonymous
07/17/2023 14:32
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. on here might want to believe. It barely exists[/b]. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.
Do you have any data to back this up?
This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.
The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.
Meh. All the middle class HYPS athletes we know are crushing it professionally. No one has to stick their neck out much to get the Yale rower a job.
Rowing isn’t a middle class sport
Yep, here's Harvard's rowing roster:
https://gocrimson.com/sports/mens-heavyweight-rowing/roster
Does that look like a listing of "middle class" public schools to you?
Harvard shares the Charles River with public high schools including urban schools in Boston and Cambridge. You are out of touch.
Who is paying for boathouse access and expensive performance boats for a small team with zero ticket or concession sales?
Even if its a public school, the athletes have to pony up serious money. Yes, the river is freeish I guess (but you generally have to pay for boat house storage and entry access).
Anonymous
07/17/2023 13:59
Subject: Re:Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Time machine to travel back in time and attend UVA instead!
Anonymous
07/17/2023 13:52
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Military.
Anonymous
07/17/2023 13:52
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Lower tier Ivy or not?
Jfc, just go out and at least get some volunteering experience (parks, courts, whatever) and a part-time job.
Jfc, just go out and at least get some volunteering experience (parks, courts, whatever) and a part-time job.
Anonymous
07/17/2023 13:48
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. on here might want to believe. It barely exists[/b]. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.
Do you have any data to back this up?
This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.
The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.
Meh. All the middle class HYPS athletes we know are crushing it professionally. No one has to stick their neck out much to get the Yale rower a job.
Rowing isn’t a middle class sport
Yep, here's Harvard's rowing roster:
https://gocrimson.com/sports/mens-heavyweight-rowing/roster
Does that look like a listing of "middle class" public schools to you?
Harvard shares the Charles River with public high schools including urban schools in Boston and Cambridge. You are out of touch.
Anonymous
07/17/2023 13:46
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Sorry this happened to your son. It is a very good lesson in humility for you both. He needs to not worry about what others think and use his connections to get a job. That is what my daughter did who did not graduate from an Ivy. She has been extremely successful despite her "lesser than" education and is working with Ivy graduates. You may not want to come across as snobby, but you can't come across as anything other with your post.
Anonymous
07/17/2023 13:42
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I posted a few months ago about my son's looming graduation. Now he is home and moping around. He finally opened up that feels like an idiot, he's overwhelmed and he's humiliated compared to all of his overachieving classmates. He's scared to ask his more connected friends (and their parents) for help because his resume is so vacant and they seem so perfect. He knows he can apply for random entry-level jobs any random college grad can apply for but he feels like he has wasted the opportunity if he settles for anything.
I want to stress his resume is basically vacant outside of the new BA and his GPA is pretty abysmal, so he thinks he's going to be mocked or his resume will just be ignored.
Not to be rude, but a huge part of the problem here seems to be that both you and he think there's something really special or different about getting a job out of an Ivy League school than any other school. Sure, there are differences, but get over it.
Yes, he should absolutely contact his career services office.
How many 22 year old Ivy League graduates are minted each year? It is pretty rarefied air and some employers do actually pay a hefty premium to employ them.
This kind of stupid attitude is how he ended up where he is.
It’s not stupid at all. I know Harvard MBAs are recruited right out of school or at least they used to be. Do they have recruiters come in to talk to the undergraduates? Have you thought of graduate school? (Not law school, there are too many already)
Anonymous
07/17/2023 10:32
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: Meh. All the middle class HYPS athletes we know are crushing it professionally. No one has to stick their neck out much to get the Yale rower a job.
Completely delusional. It is like saying that you belong to Westwood Country Club and play golf there, live in McLean but yet you're middle class. Did you know that crew/rowing is not paid by FCPS and that parents have to pay around at least 1K (I think 2K at McLean or Langley HS) for the kid to participate? You need to get out of your own bubble.
And you are not making the rowing team at Harvard or Yale by just rowing for a FCPS team. You would likely need to transfer to a boarding or prep school with a solid team at some point OR you would need to row for a top club, which obviously costs $$$.
Anonymous
07/17/2023 10:29
Subject: Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.
Do you have any data to back this up?
This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.
The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.
Meh. All the middle class HYPS athletes we know are crushing it professionally. No one has to stick their neck out much to get the Yale rower a job.
Rowing isn’t a middle class sport
Yep, here's Harvard's rowing roster:
https://gocrimson.com/sports/mens-heavyweight-rowing/roster
Does that look like a listing of "middle class" public schools to you?