Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 13:37     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Couldn’t this be solved by tapping into the staff bank/ agency?

We have a staff of people on “ zero hours contract” who are mainly college students and parents of young kids who don’t want a fixed contact job. Give enough notice for an unfilled shift and there is always a happy volunteer.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 13:31     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If your organization is so incredibly short staffed that there is literally no back up, plan for a situation where someone has a heart attack or is hospitalized or someone’s parent dies. The problem is not really with the employees. And the same is true with the school system. Ideally, there would be one or two highly trained individuals who are like permanent on-call substitutes for a school who can easily swap in when someone is out I’m saying this is someone who graded finals from a hospital room while high on narcotics because there was no one else who could fulfill that function. here the problem is not with the teacher or the employee but with a system that has no Slack built in for emergencies which can and do happen.


What is with all these silly posts equating planned leave with emergencies. The procedure for requesting leave through a manager is in place so that planned leave requests can be MANAGED ahead of time and don't create emergencies. It is silly to assume businesses should run such that planned leave results emergencies.


The point is that claiming the office can’t function during vacations is a false argument. Emergencies come up and are handled, so something with months notice should be fine.


Businesses CAN function but why would you CHOOSE to function in an "emergency" state? Just because something is possible doesn't make it reasonable. Is it ok to inconvenience you, ask you to do more, and cause you stress if I know you can handle it?

The people unable to understand the need for a leave policy are the exact ones who would complain when they are asked to do anything extra.

In OPs case I agree they have months to sort this out but procedures for requesting and approving leave are in place for a very good reason and anyone who can't see this is blinded by their self importance.


Sigh. Two months notice is not an emergency. Two people being gone once in a blue moon is not an emergency. The same levers that could be pulled in an emergency can now be orchestrated months in advance.


I used the quote function to respond to a specific post, not OPs

There are plenty of people on this thread who seem to object to any leave policy that requires approval

In my post did you not read the last line that I said that OP has two months to sort this out. GEEZ, read better.

Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 13:17     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If your organization is so incredibly short staffed that there is literally no back up, plan for a situation where someone has a heart attack or is hospitalized or someone’s parent dies. The problem is not really with the employees. And the same is true with the school system. Ideally, there would be one or two highly trained individuals who are like permanent on-call substitutes for a school who can easily swap in when someone is out I’m saying this is someone who graded finals from a hospital room while high on narcotics because there was no one else who could fulfill that function. here the problem is not with the teacher or the employee but with a system that has no Slack built in for emergencies which can and do happen.


What is with all these silly posts equating planned leave with emergencies. The procedure for requesting leave through a manager is in place so that planned leave requests can be MANAGED ahead of time and don't create emergencies. It is silly to assume businesses should run such that planned leave results emergencies.


The point is that claiming the office can’t function during vacations is a false argument. Emergencies come up and are handled, so something with months notice should be fine.


Businesses CAN function but why would you CHOOSE to function in an "emergency" state? Just because something is possible doesn't make it reasonable. Is it ok to inconvenience you, ask you to do more, and cause you stress if I know you can handle it?

The people unable to understand the need for a leave policy are the exact ones who would complain when they are asked to do anything extra.

In OPs case I agree they have months to sort this out but procedures for requesting and approving leave are in place for a very good reason and anyone who can't see this is blinded by their self importance.


Sigh. Two months notice is not an emergency. Two people being gone once in a blue moon is not an emergency. The same levers that could be pulled in an emergency can now be orchestrated months in advance.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 12:50     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If your organization is so incredibly short staffed that there is literally no back up, plan for a situation where someone has a heart attack or is hospitalized or someone’s parent dies. The problem is not really with the employees. And the same is true with the school system. Ideally, there would be one or two highly trained individuals who are like permanent on-call substitutes for a school who can easily swap in when someone is out I’m saying this is someone who graded finals from a hospital room while high on narcotics because there was no one else who could fulfill that function. here the problem is not with the teacher or the employee but with a system that has no Slack built in for emergencies which can and do happen.


What is with all these silly posts equating planned leave with emergencies. The procedure for requesting leave through a manager is in place so that planned leave requests can be MANAGED ahead of time and don't create emergencies. It is silly to assume businesses should run such that planned leave results emergencies.


The point is that claiming the office can’t function during vacations is a false argument. Emergencies come up and are handled, so something with months notice should be fine.


Businesses CAN function but why would you CHOOSE to function in an "emergency" state? Just because something is possible doesn't make it reasonable. Is it ok to inconvenience you, ask you to do more, and cause you stress if I know you can handle it?

The people unable to understand the need for a leave policy are the exact ones who would complain when they are asked to do anything extra.

In OPs case I agree they have months to sort this out but procedures for requesting and approving leave are in place for a very good reason and anyone who can't see this is blinded by their self importance.


Everyone understands that. People are reacting to OP's scenario. The employees gave him plenty of notice, and he has no good reason to deny either of their requests. His excuses about writing employee performance reports and a trade delegation that might or might not happen are transparent BS. And it seems pretty likely from his framing of the issue and the one employee buying her tickets that this is a recurring issue with OP.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 12:49     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There’s a fundamental shift happening as the boomers are retiring en masse and more Millennials, Gen Z, and to some extent Gen X are in the workplace. We’re people who have seen that loyalty to a company is meaningless and they will drop you if it’s convenient. We don’t have any chance at pensions and some of us have seen parents get only a portion of what they were promised if theirs went bankrupt. If we want to take our vacation we’re going to take our vacation and there’s not a lot you can do about it. Sure, you can fire us, but there’s always another job hiring.


Sure. But keep it up and there’ll be a few short term stints on your resume and no references so you might not get the jobs you want. Plus, if any promotion possibilities emerge, you won’t be high on the list. It might be wiser to take a longer term view and it shouldn’t be that hard to request leave early (to ensure you have first dibs).


Since, according to OP, this is an issue that afflicts every person born over a 20 year time span, I don't think that is going to be an issue.


Do you always take every word so literally or do you just enjoy being obtuse?


OP could've just complained about the two individual employees rather than making sweeping generalizations about an entire generation.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 12:45     Subject: Re:Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:I don't have anything to offer about management style, but I am surprised at how many people work in settings where two people taking off the same week during a busy time of year would not significantly impact others.


Really? I am surprised at how many people apparently have work that depends on other team members' work. When I take off work, there is no one else that can do my work; I simply notify all my clients and their projects are frozen until I return. I have an assistant to handle absolute emergencies, but otherwise, no one else's presence or absence affects my work at all.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 12:43     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:And now Ms. High School Graduation lied to me this afternoon. She was OOO and apparently was getting fit for a wedding t dress. When asked where she was and why I couldn’t reach her she claimed to be with a potential client. Her assistant told me otherwise.


She better submit that leave request for the wedding ASAP and hope you don't have to write employee performance reports on her wedding day. Or do your laundry or cut your toenails.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 12:42     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If your organization is so incredibly short staffed that there is literally no back up, plan for a situation where someone has a heart attack or is hospitalized or someone’s parent dies. The problem is not really with the employees. And the same is true with the school system. Ideally, there would be one or two highly trained individuals who are like permanent on-call substitutes for a school who can easily swap in when someone is out I’m saying this is someone who graded finals from a hospital room while high on narcotics because there was no one else who could fulfill that function. here the problem is not with the teacher or the employee but with a system that has no Slack built in for emergencies which can and do happen.


What is with all these silly posts equating planned leave with emergencies. The procedure for requesting leave through a manager is in place so that planned leave requests can be MANAGED ahead of time and don't create emergencies. It is silly to assume businesses should run such that planned leave results emergencies.


The point is that claiming the office can’t function during vacations is a false argument. Emergencies come up and are handled, so something with months notice should be fine.


Businesses CAN function but why would you CHOOSE to function in an "emergency" state? Just because something is possible doesn't make it reasonable. Is it ok to inconvenience you, ask you to do more, and cause you stress if I know you can handle it?

The people unable to understand the need for a leave policy are the exact ones who would complain when they are asked to do anything extra.

In OPs case I agree they have months to sort this out but procedures for requesting and approving leave are in place for a very good reason and anyone who can't see this is blinded by their self importance.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 12:05     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There’s a fundamental shift happening as the boomers are retiring en masse and more Millennials, Gen Z, and to some extent Gen X are in the workplace. We’re people who have seen that loyalty to a company is meaningless and they will drop you if it’s convenient. We don’t have any chance at pensions and some of us have seen parents get only a portion of what they were promised if theirs went bankrupt. If we want to take our vacation we’re going to take our vacation and there’s not a lot you can do about it. Sure, you can fire us, but there’s always another job hiring.


Sure. But keep it up and there’ll be a few short term stints on your resume and no references so you might not get the jobs you want. Plus, if any promotion possibilities emerge, you won’t be high on the list. It might be wiser to take a longer term view and it shouldn’t be that hard to request leave early (to ensure you have first dibs).


Since, according to OP, this is an issue that afflicts every person born over a 20 year time span, I don't think that is going to be an issue.


Do you always take every word so literally or do you just enjoy being obtuse?
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 12:03     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There’s a fundamental shift happening as the boomers are retiring en masse and more Millennials, Gen Z, and to some extent Gen X are in the workplace. We’re people who have seen that loyalty to a company is meaningless and they will drop you if it’s convenient. We don’t have any chance at pensions and some of us have seen parents get only a portion of what they were promised if theirs went bankrupt. If we want to take our vacation we’re going to take our vacation and there’s not a lot you can do about it. Sure, you can fire us, but there’s always another job hiring.


Sure. But keep it up and there’ll be a few short term stints on your resume and no references so you might not get the jobs you want. Plus, if any promotion possibilities emerge, you won’t be high on the list. It might be wiser to take a longer term view and it shouldn’t be that hard to request leave early (to ensure you have first dibs).


Oh please. Give it up. You can't scare people into following pointless rules. Employers can't act callously towards their employees and still expect them to sacrifice their personal lives for a paycheck and promise of a promotion that never happens. The social contract has been broken, and broken for a long time. People are over it.


I agree employers shouldn't act callously, especially in a tight labour market where the employee can find better options. However, the rules about getting leave preapproved do have a point - it enables managers to manage workloads across an entire team and avoids conflicting leave arrangements. It's also in the interests of the employee so they don't end up having to cancel plans, etc. I've been working for over 20 years and it usually takes about 2 minutes to submit a request for leave. It's not really very hard.

It sounds like you are speaking from some bad experiences. If so, I hope you find a better employer.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 11:49     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There’s a fundamental shift happening as the boomers are retiring en masse and more Millennials, Gen Z, and to some extent Gen X are in the workplace. We’re people who have seen that loyalty to a company is meaningless and they will drop you if it’s convenient. We don’t have any chance at pensions and some of us have seen parents get only a portion of what they were promised if theirs went bankrupt. If we want to take our vacation we’re going to take our vacation and there’s not a lot you can do about it. Sure, you can fire us, but there’s always another job hiring.


Sure. But keep it up and there’ll be a few short term stints on your resume and no references so you might not get the jobs you want. Plus, if any promotion possibilities emerge, you won’t be high on the list. It might be wiser to take a longer term view and it shouldn’t be that hard to request leave early (to ensure you have first dibs).


Oh please. Give it up. You can't scare people into following pointless rules. Employers can't act callously towards their employees and still expect them to sacrifice their personal lives for a paycheck and promise of a promotion that never happens. The social contract has been broken, and broken for a long time. People are over it.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 11:42     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:Is the mother of the high school graduate getting married? I'm confused.


Maybe it's her wedding the other employee is attending.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 11:42     Subject: Re:Tired of Managing Millenials
She was probably a 23 year old single mother at one point.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 11:42     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:Is the mother of the high school graduate getting married? I'm confused.


What is confusing about that?
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2023 11:38     Subject: Tired of Managing Millenials
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There’s a fundamental shift happening as the boomers are retiring en masse and more Millennials, Gen Z, and to some extent Gen X are in the workplace. We’re people who have seen that loyalty to a company is meaningless and they will drop you if it’s convenient. We don’t have any chance at pensions and some of us have seen parents get only a portion of what they were promised if theirs went bankrupt. If we want to take our vacation we’re going to take our vacation and there’s not a lot you can do about it. Sure, you can fire us, but there’s always another job hiring.


Sure. But keep it up and there’ll be a few short term stints on your resume and no references so you might not get the jobs you want. Plus, if any promotion possibilities emerge, you won’t be high on the list. It might be wiser to take a longer term view and it shouldn’t be that hard to request leave early (to ensure you have first dibs).


Since, according to OP, this is an issue that afflicts every person born over a 20 year time span, I don't think that is going to be an issue.