Anonymous
11/02/2022 09:38
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should consider sending your kid to private school.
Most of the privates are much easier than FCPS AAP. We moved one from private back to FCPS and the curriculum in FCPS was far more challenging. Have heard the same from several others.
Name the private, please.
NP here. I think it is pretty well known in this area that FCPS middle and high schools are generally more rigorous than the standard private schools (in grades 7 through 12), especially in math and science. Temple Baptist, Dominion, Trinity, Oakcrest, GW Community, etc. Certainly, there are some private high schools that are arguably better and offer more options than FCPS high schools, but there are very few of them.
We have experience at two of the NOVA Catholic schools as well as FCPS and FCPS has been more rigorous for us (especially math).
Which grade? I know six families that moved to Catholic because they thought it was better and the kids agree it's much harder. Several catholic schools in the Arlington Diocese for middle school.
NP. I can name some schools. We've found middle school at Holy Spirit in Annandale to be much harder than the 7th-8th grade honors classes at Robinson (and elementary AAP also but that's outside the scope of this thread). So much so that I'm thinking about switching back to FCPS for next year. Holy Spirit was good for one of my kids but the workload and pace is just not working well for my child who is there now. If it were just some nightly math homework it would be no big deal but there are SO MANY tests and quizzes to study for, and writing assignments and massive long-term projects to worry about. Spanish is ridiculously hard and they teach that like it's a high school-level language class whether the 6th & 7th graders are ready for it or not. My oldest at Robinson had a much easier time than both younger kids and is now doing great in IB classes so I'm not sure if the extra rigor in middle school is necessary or appropriate unless the child is naturally super organized and already a master at executive functioning skills by the end of elementary. They say they teach those skills but really they just throw the kids into middle school and drastically ramp up the expectations without any supports built in so kids either sink or swim.
I agree catholic schools can have too many assignments for some kids but thank you for confirming that the AAP middle school classes are nowhere near an advanced level both in challenge and quantity. I don't know what private schools these kids are going to that are easier, but it would be hard to find a private school that was easier than FCPS and had no homework as well. They must be seeking them out because every other private school I've seen is harder. FCPS can do better with their AAP level classes. If you don't want that level, just do a regular ed class or honors class. No one is requiring kids to be in these upper level classes and from what I've heard honors classes are the same caliber as AAP so if you want to do honors for some classes and not others, you can do that as well. There is no need for FCPS to have such basic honors/ AAP classes.
Our experience is that Catholic school--which DC went to during Covid and the returned to public-- had a lot more work, but I'm not convinced it's 'harder' or more sophisticated work. Just more. Kind of tedious--lots of tests and quizzes, stricter grading. But my kid is also at Robinson now and I look at the things they do in social studies and it seems more sophisticated--analyzing primary documents etc. --and more interesting, but the workload is lighter. Also the electives are much better in public.
+1. This was our experience as well. A lot of what I would call "busy work" at the private school. If that is what you are interested in, OP, then you should just order some workbooks off of Amazon. Lots of options out there for extra practice.
No and I don't want my kid hating me. I think there are strong teachers that have a good middle ground of practice and challenge. It's sad actually that we can't have a discussion about challenging courses without people fighting over whether that just means busy work or not. It speaks to the fact that many people just don't care about challenging academics.
There are challenging courses that have a lot of projects. There are challenging courses that have a lot of writing papers and particularly in math there are challenging courses that have a lot of practice even if they also do a lot of challenge math type problems as well. But people who are academically minded can see when their kids are challenged and when they are not and they aren't so categorical in terms of how that challenge is always applied from class to class. Easy assignments and few of them even at the AAP level does not equal challenge in any way and that is what FCPS has become. Plenty of kids in middle have all A's and are doing very little work and very little challenging work. It doesn't check the "challenge box" in any way.
PP here. I feel like my kids were appropriately challenged by strong teachers at Rocky Run MS. It is sad that you cannot accept some people believe their FCPS middle school delivers challenging academics. You just say they are wrong without having any experience or knowledge of their middle school.
Not in the slightest. First off. Rocky Run is a major TJ feeder school, so from the beginning pages, we singled this school, Longfellow, Carson, and Luther Jackson out as schools that typically stepped up in providing a challenging curriculum being TJ feeders. Secondly, the question was framed as whether or not to talk to the school about the situation, not to put FCPS down that all schools were like this, or that all non-AAP classes have more challenges. I respect not everyone wants this or wants this in all subjects.
This was the original question and after 12 pages, only a couple of people have even believed me much less actually given advice related to the question.
"Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything?"
Well, I suppose the answer to your question is yes. If you are dissatisfied with your school's curriculum, then you should make an appointment with the administration to air your concerns.
But would they accept any suggestions? I don't think so.
Outside of more homework, what are your suggestions? You keep bringing up rigor, but have not provided any concrete examples of what that looks like. Gifted education is about diving deeper, not more work. It is about providing opportunities to analyze from various viewpoints or to look at the “why” of topics. It is not about a longer paper, more math problems, or reading an extra long book.
-Signed, Someone certified in gifted education
Maybe you've drunk the gifted cool aid too much then. First off it's advanced academics, not solely gifted and second writing more is definitely harder than writing less in school. Same for the book. Same for more math problems. You could say your thinking is just as limited as a rote curriculum. Doing more work is indeed harder. But as discussed before FCPS also isn't asking the hard questions at least in a way that is difficult. If they do ask a hard question it's a group discussion with no grade associated with it and they are few and far between so there is no work involved or editing to make your argument make more sense or be more convincing. One hard question ov3r a month as a group discussion doesn't make a challenging curriculum. Yes we all know or FCPSs portrait of a graduate skills but I don't actually think FCPS knows how to produce scholars of those abilities.
Omg. You really have no clue. More writing and more math problems are harder? Not at all true. Simply more time consuming. I suggest you take the 4 courses required to be certified in gifted education and then we can talk.
-signed, an FCPS teacher with a gifted endorsement from UVA
DP, is your bumper also endorsed with the UVA logo? It's pretty clear to me that the AAP curriculum is a joke, especially in math. Right now FCPS is in dire need of real teachers who majored in a hard science, math, or engineering and who are passionate about teaching kids. They need a lot less people like you masquerading around with their education degree pretending they are 'gifted educators'. Responding with 'Omg' also gives everything away.
Ok, but that doesn’t negate at all what I said. More writing and more math problems doesn’t necessarily equate to being harder or challenging. That’s why I suggested you actually take the gifted courses yourself to understand better how to effectively challenge students.
That was a different poster but you are simply wrong. More practice solidies skills and doing longer tasks usually means more complex. Look I don't know how to teach children and I don't know the best methods of motivating them in a classroom. I hope your teaching certificate went over this and that to me is what teaching certificates are for. The how as much as the what to teach. That said, anyone who has a college and post-college degree knows what complicated academic work looks like and can review it for it's complexity. I can look at actual assignments I did on the holocaust say in 7th grade where I analyzed several books and wrote about their similarities and differences and themes or the project I did on the government and see that it was more complex than what my child is getting now from FCPS. FCPS didn't invent gifted education. It's now pretty common place and most kids who went on to get advanced degrees were in fact gifted kids in school themselves.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 09:31
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should consider sending your kid to private school.
Most of the privates are much easier than FCPS AAP. We moved one from private back to FCPS and the curriculum in FCPS was far more challenging. Have heard the same from several others.
Name the private, please.
NP here. I think it is pretty well known in this area that FCPS middle and high schools are generally more rigorous than the standard private schools (in grades 7 through 12), especially in math and science. Temple Baptist, Dominion, Trinity, Oakcrest, GW Community, etc. Certainly, there are some private high schools that are arguably better and offer more options than FCPS high schools, but there are very few of them.
We have experience at two of the NOVA Catholic schools as well as FCPS and FCPS has been more rigorous for us (especially math).
Which grade? I know six families that moved to Catholic because they thought it was better and the kids agree it's much harder. Several catholic schools in the Arlington Diocese for middle school.
NP. I can name some schools. We've found middle school at Holy Spirit in Annandale to be much harder than the 7th-8th grade honors classes at Robinson (and elementary AAP also but that's outside the scope of this thread). So much so that I'm thinking about switching back to FCPS for next year. Holy Spirit was good for one of my kids but the workload and pace is just not working well for my child who is there now. If it were just some nightly math homework it would be no big deal but there are SO MANY tests and quizzes to study for, and writing assignments and massive long-term projects to worry about. Spanish is ridiculously hard and they teach that like it's a high school-level language class whether the 6th & 7th graders are ready for it or not. My oldest at Robinson had a much easier time than both younger kids and is now doing great in IB classes so I'm not sure if the extra rigor in middle school is necessary or appropriate unless the child is naturally super organized and already a master at executive functioning skills by the end of elementary. They say they teach those skills but really they just throw the kids into middle school and drastically ramp up the expectations without any supports built in so kids either sink or swim.
I agree catholic schools can have too many assignments for some kids but thank you for confirming that the AAP middle school classes are nowhere near an advanced level both in challenge and quantity. I don't know what private schools these kids are going to that are easier, but it would be hard to find a private school that was easier than FCPS and had no homework as well. They must be seeking them out because every other private school I've seen is harder. FCPS can do better with their AAP level classes. If you don't want that level, just do a regular ed class or honors class. No one is requiring kids to be in these upper level classes and from what I've heard honors classes are the same caliber as AAP so if you want to do honors for some classes and not others, you can do that as well. There is no need for FCPS to have such basic honors/ AAP classes.
Our experience is that Catholic school--which DC went to during Covid and the returned to public-- had a lot more work, but I'm not convinced it's 'harder' or more sophisticated work. Just more. Kind of tedious--lots of tests and quizzes, stricter grading. But my kid is also at Robinson now and I look at the things they do in social studies and it seems more sophisticated--analyzing primary documents etc. --and more interesting, but the workload is lighter. Also the electives are much better in public.
+1. This was our experience as well. A lot of what I would call "busy work" at the private school. If that is what you are interested in, OP, then you should just order some workbooks off of Amazon. Lots of options out there for extra practice.
No and I don't want my kid hating me. I think there are strong teachers that have a good middle ground of practice and challenge. It's sad actually that we can't have a discussion about challenging courses without people fighting over whether that just means busy work or not. It speaks to the fact that many people just don't care about challenging academics.
There are challenging courses that have a lot of projects. There are challenging courses that have a lot of writing papers and particularly in math there are challenging courses that have a lot of practice even if they also do a lot of challenge math type problems as well. But people who are academically minded can see when their kids are challenged and when they are not and they aren't so categorical in terms of how that challenge is always applied from class to class. Easy assignments and few of them even at the AAP level does not equal challenge in any way and that is what FCPS has become. Plenty of kids in middle have all A's and are doing very little work and very little challenging work. It doesn't check the "challenge box" in any way.
PP here. I feel like my kids were appropriately challenged by strong teachers at Rocky Run MS. It is sad that you cannot accept some people believe their FCPS middle school delivers challenging academics. You just say they are wrong without having any experience or knowledge of their middle school.
Not in the slightest. First off. Rocky Run is a major TJ feeder school, so from the beginning pages, we singled this school, Longfellow, Carson, and Luther Jackson out as schools that typically stepped up in providing a challenging curriculum being TJ feeders. Secondly, the question was framed as whether or not to talk to the school about the situation, not to put FCPS down that all schools were like this, or that all non-AAP classes have more challenges. I respect not everyone wants this or wants this in all subjects.
This was the original question and after 12 pages, only a couple of people have even believed me much less actually given advice related to the question.
"Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything?"
Well, I suppose the answer to your question is yes. If you are dissatisfied with your school's curriculum, then you should make an appointment with the administration to air your concerns.
But would they accept any suggestions? I don't think so.
Outside of more homework, what are your suggestions? You keep bringing up rigor, but have not provided any concrete examples of what that looks like. Gifted education is about diving deeper, not more work. It is about providing opportunities to analyze from various viewpoints or to look at the “why” of topics. It is not about a longer paper, more math problems, or reading an extra long book.
-Signed, Someone certified in gifted education
Maybe you've drunk the gifted cool aid too much then. First off it's advanced academics, not solely gifted and second writing more is definitely harder than writing less in school. Same for the book. Same for more math problems. You could say your thinking is just as limited as a rote curriculum. Doing more work is indeed harder. But as discussed before FCPS also isn't asking the hard questions at least in a way that is difficult. If they do ask a hard question it's a group discussion with no grade associated with it and they are few and far between so there is no work involved or editing to make your argument make more sense or be more convincing. One hard question ov3r a month as a group discussion doesn't make a challenging curriculum. Yes we all know or FCPSs portrait of a graduate skills but I don't actually think FCPS knows how to produce scholars of those abilities.
Omg. You really have no clue. More writing and more math problems are harder? Not at all true. Simply more time consuming. I suggest you take the 4 courses required to be certified in gifted education and then we can talk.
-signed, an FCPS teacher with a gifted endorsement from UVA
DP, is your bumper also endorsed with the UVA logo? It's pretty clear to me that the AAP curriculum is a joke, especially in math. Right now FCPS is in dire need of real teachers who majored in a hard science, math, or engineering and who are passionate about teaching kids. They need a lot less people like you masquerading around with their education degree pretending they are 'gifted educators'. Responding with 'Omg' also gives everything away.
No, I don’t use any bumper stickers or logos on my car, lol. The gifted endorsement is something in addition to your initial degree. Luckily, in addition to my endorsement, I hold a BS in Biology and a Masters degree as well.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 09:27
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should consider sending your kid to private school.
Most of the privates are much easier than FCPS AAP. We moved one from private back to FCPS and the curriculum in FCPS was far more challenging. Have heard the same from several others.
Name the private, please.
NP here. I think it is pretty well known in this area that FCPS middle and high schools are generally more rigorous than the standard private schools (in grades 7 through 12), especially in math and science. Temple Baptist, Dominion, Trinity, Oakcrest, GW Community, etc. Certainly, there are some private high schools that are arguably better and offer more options than FCPS high schools, but there are very few of them.
We have experience at two of the NOVA Catholic schools as well as FCPS and FCPS has been more rigorous for us (especially math).
Which grade? I know six families that moved to Catholic because they thought it was better and the kids agree it's much harder. Several catholic schools in the Arlington Diocese for middle school.
NP. I can name some schools. We've found middle school at Holy Spirit in Annandale to be much harder than the 7th-8th grade honors classes at Robinson (and elementary AAP also but that's outside the scope of this thread). So much so that I'm thinking about switching back to FCPS for next year. Holy Spirit was good for one of my kids but the workload and pace is just not working well for my child who is there now. If it were just some nightly math homework it would be no big deal but there are SO MANY tests and quizzes to study for, and writing assignments and massive long-term projects to worry about. Spanish is ridiculously hard and they teach that like it's a high school-level language class whether the 6th & 7th graders are ready for it or not. My oldest at Robinson had a much easier time than both younger kids and is now doing great in IB classes so I'm not sure if the extra rigor in middle school is necessary or appropriate unless the child is naturally super organized and already a master at executive functioning skills by the end of elementary. They say they teach those skills but really they just throw the kids into middle school and drastically ramp up the expectations without any supports built in so kids either sink or swim.
I agree catholic schools can have too many assignments for some kids but thank you for confirming that the AAP middle school classes are nowhere near an advanced level both in challenge and quantity. I don't know what private schools these kids are going to that are easier, but it would be hard to find a private school that was easier than FCPS and had no homework as well. They must be seeking them out because every other private school I've seen is harder. FCPS can do better with their AAP level classes. If you don't want that level, just do a regular ed class or honors class. No one is requiring kids to be in these upper level classes and from what I've heard honors classes are the same caliber as AAP so if you want to do honors for some classes and not others, you can do that as well. There is no need for FCPS to have such basic honors/ AAP classes.
Our experience is that Catholic school--which DC went to during Covid and the returned to public-- had a lot more work, but I'm not convinced it's 'harder' or more sophisticated work. Just more. Kind of tedious--lots of tests and quizzes, stricter grading. But my kid is also at Robinson now and I look at the things they do in social studies and it seems more sophisticated--analyzing primary documents etc. --and more interesting, but the workload is lighter. Also the electives are much better in public.
+1. This was our experience as well. A lot of what I would call "busy work" at the private school. If that is what you are interested in, OP, then you should just order some workbooks off of Amazon. Lots of options out there for extra practice.
No and I don't want my kid hating me. I think there are strong teachers that have a good middle ground of practice and challenge. It's sad actually that we can't have a discussion about challenging courses without people fighting over whether that just means busy work or not. It speaks to the fact that many people just don't care about challenging academics.
There are challenging courses that have a lot of projects. There are challenging courses that have a lot of writing papers and particularly in math there are challenging courses that have a lot of practice even if they also do a lot of challenge math type problems as well. But people who are academically minded can see when their kids are challenged and when they are not and they aren't so categorical in terms of how that challenge is always applied from class to class. Easy assignments and few of them even at the AAP level does not equal challenge in any way and that is what FCPS has become. Plenty of kids in middle have all A's and are doing very little work and very little challenging work. It doesn't check the "challenge box" in any way.
PP here. I feel like my kids were appropriately challenged by strong teachers at Rocky Run MS. It is sad that you cannot accept some people believe their FCPS middle school delivers challenging academics. You just say they are wrong without having any experience or knowledge of their middle school.
Not in the slightest. First off. Rocky Run is a major TJ feeder school, so from the beginning pages, we singled this school, Longfellow, Carson, and Luther Jackson out as schools that typically stepped up in providing a challenging curriculum being TJ feeders. Secondly, the question was framed as whether or not to talk to the school about the situation, not to put FCPS down that all schools were like this, or that all non-AAP classes have more challenges. I respect not everyone wants this or wants this in all subjects.
This was the original question and after 12 pages, only a couple of people have even believed me much less actually given advice related to the question.
"Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything?"
Well, I suppose the answer to your question is yes. If you are dissatisfied with your school's curriculum, then you should make an appointment with the administration to air your concerns.
But would they accept any suggestions? I don't think so.
Outside of more homework, what are your suggestions? You keep bringing up rigor, but have not provided any concrete examples of what that looks like. Gifted education is about diving deeper, not more work. It is about providing opportunities to analyze from various viewpoints or to look at the “why” of topics. It is not about a longer paper, more math problems, or reading an extra long book.
-Signed, Someone certified in gifted education
Maybe you've drunk the gifted cool aid too much then. First off it's advanced academics, not solely gifted and second writing more is definitely harder than writing less in school. Same for the book. Same for more math problems. You could say your thinking is just as limited as a rote curriculum. Doing more work is indeed harder. But as discussed before FCPS also isn't asking the hard questions at least in a way that is difficult. If they do ask a hard question it's a group discussion with no grade associated with it and they are few and far between so there is no work involved or editing to make your argument make more sense or be more convincing. One hard question ov3r a month as a group discussion doesn't make a challenging curriculum. Yes we all know or FCPSs portrait of a graduate skills but I don't actually think FCPS knows how to produce scholars of those abilities.
Omg. You really have no clue. More writing and more math problems are harder? Not at all true. Simply more time consuming. I suggest you take the 4 courses required to be certified in gifted education and then we can talk.
-signed, an FCPS teacher with a gifted endorsement from UVA
DP, is your bumper also endorsed with the UVA logo? It's pretty clear to me that the AAP curriculum is a joke, especially in math. Right now FCPS is in dire need of real teachers who majored in a hard science, math, or engineering and who are passionate about teaching kids. They need a lot less people like you masquerading around with their education degree pretending they are 'gifted educators'. Responding with 'Omg' also gives everything away.
Ok, but that doesn’t negate at all what I said. More writing and more math problems doesn’t necessarily equate to being harder or challenging. That’s why I suggested you actually take the gifted courses yourself to understand better how to effectively challenge students.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 09:26
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:You should be using the after school hours to invest in high intensity sports, science, foreign language, music, arts, and community service training. Your kid needs to be flourishing in one or more of these areas at the start of high school to take part in the high level (state and national level) activities that get them noticed by colleges.
Academics will ramp up in 9th or 10th grade. Middle school is the time to invest in the activities that matter to you and your child that the school can’t provide.
I would prefer them to ramp up in middle school before grades matter. Elementary is better for this. By middle school, most kids know their interests already.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 09:23
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should consider sending your kid to private school.
Most of the privates are much easier than FCPS AAP. We moved one from private back to FCPS and the curriculum in FCPS was far more challenging. Have heard the same from several others.
Name the private, please.
NP here. I think it is pretty well known in this area that FCPS middle and high schools are generally more rigorous than the standard private schools (in grades 7 through 12), especially in math and science. Temple Baptist, Dominion, Trinity, Oakcrest, GW Community, etc. Certainly, there are some private high schools that are arguably better and offer more options than FCPS high schools, but there are very few of them.
We have experience at two of the NOVA Catholic schools as well as FCPS and FCPS has been more rigorous for us (especially math).
Which grade? I know six families that moved to Catholic because they thought it was better and the kids agree it's much harder. Several catholic schools in the Arlington Diocese for middle school.
NP. I can name some schools. We've found middle school at Holy Spirit in Annandale to be much harder than the 7th-8th grade honors classes at Robinson (and elementary AAP also but that's outside the scope of this thread). So much so that I'm thinking about switching back to FCPS for next year. Holy Spirit was good for one of my kids but the workload and pace is just not working well for my child who is there now. If it were just some nightly math homework it would be no big deal but there are SO MANY tests and quizzes to study for, and writing assignments and massive long-term projects to worry about. Spanish is ridiculously hard and they teach that like it's a high school-level language class whether the 6th & 7th graders are ready for it or not. My oldest at Robinson had a much easier time than both younger kids and is now doing great in IB classes so I'm not sure if the extra rigor in middle school is necessary or appropriate unless the child is naturally super organized and already a master at executive functioning skills by the end of elementary. They say they teach those skills but really they just throw the kids into middle school and drastically ramp up the expectations without any supports built in so kids either sink or swim.
I agree catholic schools can have too many assignments for some kids but thank you for confirming that the AAP middle school classes are nowhere near an advanced level both in challenge and quantity. I don't know what private schools these kids are going to that are easier, but it would be hard to find a private school that was easier than FCPS and had no homework as well. They must be seeking them out because every other private school I've seen is harder. FCPS can do better with their AAP level classes. If you don't want that level, just do a regular ed class or honors class. No one is requiring kids to be in these upper level classes and from what I've heard honors classes are the same caliber as AAP so if you want to do honors for some classes and not others, you can do that as well. There is no need for FCPS to have such basic honors/ AAP classes.
Our experience is that Catholic school--which DC went to during Covid and the returned to public-- had a lot more work, but I'm not convinced it's 'harder' or more sophisticated work. Just more. Kind of tedious--lots of tests and quizzes, stricter grading. But my kid is also at Robinson now and I look at the things they do in social studies and it seems more sophisticated--analyzing primary documents etc. --and more interesting, but the workload is lighter. Also the electives are much better in public.
+1. This was our experience as well. A lot of what I would call "busy work" at the private school. If that is what you are interested in, OP, then you should just order some workbooks off of Amazon. Lots of options out there for extra practice.
No and I don't want my kid hating me. I think there are strong teachers that have a good middle ground of practice and challenge. It's sad actually that we can't have a discussion about challenging courses without people fighting over whether that just means busy work or not. It speaks to the fact that many people just don't care about challenging academics.
There are challenging courses that have a lot of projects. There are challenging courses that have a lot of writing papers and particularly in math there are challenging courses that have a lot of practice even if they also do a lot of challenge math type problems as well. But people who are academically minded can see when their kids are challenged and when they are not and they aren't so categorical in terms of how that challenge is always applied from class to class. Easy assignments and few of them even at the AAP level does not equal challenge in any way and that is what FCPS has become. Plenty of kids in middle have all A's and are doing very little work and very little challenging work. It doesn't check the "challenge box" in any way.
PP here. I feel like my kids were appropriately challenged by strong teachers at Rocky Run MS. It is sad that you cannot accept some people believe their FCPS middle school delivers challenging academics. You just say they are wrong without having any experience or knowledge of their middle school.
Not in the slightest. First off. Rocky Run is a major TJ feeder school, so from the beginning pages, we singled this school, Longfellow, Carson, and Luther Jackson out as schools that typically stepped up in providing a challenging curriculum being TJ feeders. Secondly, the question was framed as whether or not to talk to the school about the situation, not to put FCPS down that all schools were like this, or that all non-AAP classes have more challenges. I respect not everyone wants this or wants this in all subjects.
This was the original question and after 12 pages, only a couple of people have even believed me much less actually given advice related to the question.
"Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything?"
Well, I suppose the answer to your question is yes. If you are dissatisfied with your school's curriculum, then you should make an appointment with the administration to air your concerns.
But would they accept any suggestions? I don't think so.
Outside of more homework, what are your suggestions? You keep bringing up rigor, but have not provided any concrete examples of what that looks like. Gifted education is about diving deeper, not more work. It is about providing opportunities to analyze from various viewpoints or to look at the “why” of topics. It is not about a longer paper, more math problems, or reading an extra long book.
-Signed, Someone certified in gifted education
Maybe you've drunk the gifted cool aid too much then. First off it's advanced academics, not solely gifted and second writing more is definitely harder than writing less in school. Same for the book. Same for more math problems. You could say your thinking is just as limited as a rote curriculum. Doing more work is indeed harder. But as discussed before FCPS also isn't asking the hard questions at least in a way that is difficult. If they do ask a hard question it's a group discussion with no grade associated with it and they are few and far between so there is no work involved or editing to make your argument make more sense or be more convincing. One hard question ov3r a month as a group discussion doesn't make a challenging curriculum. Yes we all know or FCPSs portrait of a graduate skills but I don't actually think FCPS knows how to produce scholars of those abilities.
Omg. You really have no clue. More writing and more math problems are harder? Not at all true. Simply more time consuming. I suggest you take the 4 courses required to be certified in gifted education and then we can talk.
-signed, an FCPS teacher with a gifted endorsement from UVA
DP, is your bumper also endorsed with the UVA logo? It's pretty clear to me that the AAP curriculum is a joke, especially in math. Right now FCPS is in dire need of real teachers who majored in a hard science, math, or engineering and who are passionate about teaching kids. They need a lot less people like you masquerading around with their education degree pretending they are 'gifted educators'. Responding with 'Omg' also gives everything away.
Right. English too although that's always been weak. Gifted education is supposed to be in addition to, not in lieu of. While I do like the why questions, it's silly to think any more traditional school doesn't also do projects or ask why questions or also try to meet the same portait of a graduate skills. I appreciate the why questions but it does take away something when they are answered without a capital letter in their senior year of high school.
BTW, my 7th grader came home with a finished six problem math sheet with no word problems and a word find and a couple of short answer questions filled out from the day yesterday. Exhiliarating curriculum is not happening daily or even weekly in AAP.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 09:05
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should consider sending your kid to private school.
Most of the privates are much easier than FCPS AAP. We moved one from private back to FCPS and the curriculum in FCPS was far more challenging. Have heard the same from several others.
Name the private, please.
NP here. I think it is pretty well known in this area that FCPS middle and high schools are generally more rigorous than the standard private schools (in grades 7 through 12), especially in math and science. Temple Baptist, Dominion, Trinity, Oakcrest, GW Community, etc. Certainly, there are some private high schools that are arguably better and offer more options than FCPS high schools, but there are very few of them.
We have experience at two of the NOVA Catholic schools as well as FCPS and FCPS has been more rigorous for us (especially math).
Which grade? I know six families that moved to Catholic because they thought it was better and the kids agree it's much harder. Several catholic schools in the Arlington Diocese for middle school.
NP. I can name some schools. We've found middle school at Holy Spirit in Annandale to be much harder than the 7th-8th grade honors classes at Robinson (and elementary AAP also but that's outside the scope of this thread). So much so that I'm thinking about switching back to FCPS for next year. Holy Spirit was good for one of my kids but the workload and pace is just not working well for my child who is there now. If it were just some nightly math homework it would be no big deal but there are SO MANY tests and quizzes to study for, and writing assignments and massive long-term projects to worry about. Spanish is ridiculously hard and they teach that like it's a high school-level language class whether the 6th & 7th graders are ready for it or not. My oldest at Robinson had a much easier time than both younger kids and is now doing great in IB classes so I'm not sure if the extra rigor in middle school is necessary or appropriate unless the child is naturally super organized and already a master at executive functioning skills by the end of elementary. They say they teach those skills but really they just throw the kids into middle school and drastically ramp up the expectations without any supports built in so kids either sink or swim.
I agree catholic schools can have too many assignments for some kids but thank you for confirming that the AAP middle school classes are nowhere near an advanced level both in challenge and quantity. I don't know what private schools these kids are going to that are easier, but it would be hard to find a private school that was easier than FCPS and had no homework as well. They must be seeking them out because every other private school I've seen is harder. FCPS can do better with their AAP level classes. If you don't want that level, just do a regular ed class or honors class. No one is requiring kids to be in these upper level classes and from what I've heard honors classes are the same caliber as AAP so if you want to do honors for some classes and not others, you can do that as well. There is no need for FCPS to have such basic honors/ AAP classes.
Our experience is that Catholic school--which DC went to during Covid and the returned to public-- had a lot more work, but I'm not convinced it's 'harder' or more sophisticated work. Just more. Kind of tedious--lots of tests and quizzes, stricter grading. But my kid is also at Robinson now and I look at the things they do in social studies and it seems more sophisticated--analyzing primary documents etc. --and more interesting, but the workload is lighter. Also the electives are much better in public.
+1. This was our experience as well. A lot of what I would call "busy work" at the private school. If that is what you are interested in, OP, then you should just order some workbooks off of Amazon. Lots of options out there for extra practice.
No and I don't want my kid hating me. I think there are strong teachers that have a good middle ground of practice and challenge. It's sad actually that we can't have a discussion about challenging courses without people fighting over whether that just means busy work or not. It speaks to the fact that many people just don't care about challenging academics.
There are challenging courses that have a lot of projects. There are challenging courses that have a lot of writing papers and particularly in math there are challenging courses that have a lot of practice even if they also do a lot of challenge math type problems as well. But people who are academically minded can see when their kids are challenged and when they are not and they aren't so categorical in terms of how that challenge is always applied from class to class. Easy assignments and few of them even at the AAP level does not equal challenge in any way and that is what FCPS has become. Plenty of kids in middle have all A's and are doing very little work and very little challenging work. It doesn't check the "challenge box" in any way.
PP here. I feel like my kids were appropriately challenged by strong teachers at Rocky Run MS. It is sad that you cannot accept some people believe their FCPS middle school delivers challenging academics. You just say they are wrong without having any experience or knowledge of their middle school.
Not in the slightest. First off. Rocky Run is a major TJ feeder school, so from the beginning pages, we singled this school, Longfellow, Carson, and Luther Jackson out as schools that typically stepped up in providing a challenging curriculum being TJ feeders. Secondly, the question was framed as whether or not to talk to the school about the situation, not to put FCPS down that all schools were like this, or that all non-AAP classes have more challenges. I respect not everyone wants this or wants this in all subjects.
This was the original question and after 12 pages, only a couple of people have even believed me much less actually given advice related to the question.
"Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything?"
Well, I suppose the answer to your question is yes. If you are dissatisfied with your school's curriculum, then you should make an appointment with the administration to air your concerns.
But would they accept any suggestions? I don't think so.
Outside of more homework, what are your suggestions? You keep bringing up rigor, but have not provided any concrete examples of what that looks like. Gifted education is about diving deeper, not more work. It is about providing opportunities to analyze from various viewpoints or to look at the “why” of topics. It is not about a longer paper, more math problems, or reading an extra long book.
-Signed, Someone certified in gifted education
Maybe you've drunk the gifted cool aid too much then. First off it's advanced academics, not solely gifted and second writing more is definitely harder than writing less in school. Same for the book. Same for more math problems. You could say your thinking is just as limited as a rote curriculum. Doing more work is indeed harder. But as discussed before FCPS also isn't asking the hard questions at least in a way that is difficult. If they do ask a hard question it's a group discussion with no grade associated with it and they are few and far between so there is no work involved or editing to make your argument make more sense or be more convincing. One hard question ov3r a month as a group discussion doesn't make a challenging curriculum. Yes we all know or FCPSs portrait of a graduate skills but I don't actually think FCPS knows how to produce scholars of those abilities.
Omg. You really have no clue. More writing and more math problems are harder? Not at all true. Simply more time consuming. I suggest you take the 4 courses required to be certified in gifted education and then we can talk.
-signed, an FCPS teacher with a gifted endorsement from UVA
DP, is your bumper also endorsed with the UVA logo? It's pretty clear to me that the AAP curriculum is a joke, especially in math. Right now FCPS is in dire need of real teachers who majored in a hard science, math, or engineering and who are passionate about teaching kids. They need a lot less people like you masquerading around with their education degree pretending they are 'gifted educators'. Responding with 'Omg' also gives everything away.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 07:39
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
You should be using the after school hours to invest in high intensity sports, science, foreign language, music, arts, and community service training. Your kid needs to be flourishing in one or more of these areas at the start of high school to take part in the high level (state and national level) activities that get them noticed by colleges.
Academics will ramp up in 9th or 10th grade. Middle school is the time to invest in the activities that matter to you and your child that the school can’t provide.
Academics will ramp up in 9th or 10th grade. Middle school is the time to invest in the activities that matter to you and your child that the school can’t provide.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 07:32
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
How long would it take to actually learn all you know by the end of middle school if you started from scratch?
You hear about kids who arrive in the country with little education and who end up graduating high school with other kids their age.
When I look back, there were years in elementary school where I didn't add much to my math or reading skills.
You have kids who are home schooled because of sports or acting careers who get their school work done in less time than average kids.
You hear about kids who arrive in the country with little education and who end up graduating high school with other kids their age.
When I look back, there were years in elementary school where I didn't add much to my math or reading skills.
You have kids who are home schooled because of sports or acting careers who get their school work done in less time than average kids.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 06:41
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should consider sending your kid to private school.
Most of the privates are much easier than FCPS AAP. We moved one from private back to FCPS and the curriculum in FCPS was far more challenging. Have heard the same from several others.
Name the private, please.
NP here. I think it is pretty well known in this area that FCPS middle and high schools are generally more rigorous than the standard private schools (in grades 7 through 12), especially in math and science. Temple Baptist, Dominion, Trinity, Oakcrest, GW Community, etc. Certainly, there are some private high schools that are arguably better and offer more options than FCPS high schools, but there are very few of them.
We have experience at two of the NOVA Catholic schools as well as FCPS and FCPS has been more rigorous for us (especially math).
Which grade? I know six families that moved to Catholic because they thought it was better and the kids agree it's much harder. Several catholic schools in the Arlington Diocese for middle school.
NP. I can name some schools. We've found middle school at Holy Spirit in Annandale to be much harder than the 7th-8th grade honors classes at Robinson (and elementary AAP also but that's outside the scope of this thread). So much so that I'm thinking about switching back to FCPS for next year. Holy Spirit was good for one of my kids but the workload and pace is just not working well for my child who is there now. If it were just some nightly math homework it would be no big deal but there are SO MANY tests and quizzes to study for, and writing assignments and massive long-term projects to worry about. Spanish is ridiculously hard and they teach that like it's a high school-level language class whether the 6th & 7th graders are ready for it or not. My oldest at Robinson had a much easier time than both younger kids and is now doing great in IB classes so I'm not sure if the extra rigor in middle school is necessary or appropriate unless the child is naturally super organized and already a master at executive functioning skills by the end of elementary. They say they teach those skills but really they just throw the kids into middle school and drastically ramp up the expectations without any supports built in so kids either sink or swim.
I agree catholic schools can have too many assignments for some kids but thank you for confirming that the AAP middle school classes are nowhere near an advanced level both in challenge and quantity. I don't know what private schools these kids are going to that are easier, but it would be hard to find a private school that was easier than FCPS and had no homework as well. They must be seeking them out because every other private school I've seen is harder. FCPS can do better with their AAP level classes. If you don't want that level, just do a regular ed class or honors class. No one is requiring kids to be in these upper level classes and from what I've heard honors classes are the same caliber as AAP so if you want to do honors for some classes and not others, you can do that as well. There is no need for FCPS to have such basic honors/ AAP classes.
Our experience is that Catholic school--which DC went to during Covid and the returned to public-- had a lot more work, but I'm not convinced it's 'harder' or more sophisticated work. Just more. Kind of tedious--lots of tests and quizzes, stricter grading. But my kid is also at Robinson now and I look at the things they do in social studies and it seems more sophisticated--analyzing primary documents etc. --and more interesting, but the workload is lighter. Also the electives are much better in public.
+1. This was our experience as well. A lot of what I would call "busy work" at the private school. If that is what you are interested in, OP, then you should just order some workbooks off of Amazon. Lots of options out there for extra practice.
No and I don't want my kid hating me. I think there are strong teachers that have a good middle ground of practice and challenge. It's sad actually that we can't have a discussion about challenging courses without people fighting over whether that just means busy work or not. It speaks to the fact that many people just don't care about challenging academics.
There are challenging courses that have a lot of projects. There are challenging courses that have a lot of writing papers and particularly in math there are challenging courses that have a lot of practice even if they also do a lot of challenge math type problems as well. But people who are academically minded can see when their kids are challenged and when they are not and they aren't so categorical in terms of how that challenge is always applied from class to class. Easy assignments and few of them even at the AAP level does not equal challenge in any way and that is what FCPS has become. Plenty of kids in middle have all A's and are doing very little work and very little challenging work. It doesn't check the "challenge box" in any way.
PP here. I feel like my kids were appropriately challenged by strong teachers at Rocky Run MS. It is sad that you cannot accept some people believe their FCPS middle school delivers challenging academics. You just say they are wrong without having any experience or knowledge of their middle school.
Not in the slightest. First off. Rocky Run is a major TJ feeder school, so from the beginning pages, we singled this school, Longfellow, Carson, and Luther Jackson out as schools that typically stepped up in providing a challenging curriculum being TJ feeders. Secondly, the question was framed as whether or not to talk to the school about the situation, not to put FCPS down that all schools were like this, or that all non-AAP classes have more challenges. I respect not everyone wants this or wants this in all subjects.
This was the original question and after 12 pages, only a couple of people have even believed me much less actually given advice related to the question.
"Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything?"
Well, I suppose the answer to your question is yes. If you are dissatisfied with your school's curriculum, then you should make an appointment with the administration to air your concerns.
But would they accept any suggestions? I don't think so.
Outside of more homework, what are your suggestions? You keep bringing up rigor, but have not provided any concrete examples of what that looks like. Gifted education is about diving deeper, not more work. It is about providing opportunities to analyze from various viewpoints or to look at the “why” of topics. It is not about a longer paper, more math problems, or reading an extra long book.
-Signed, Someone certified in gifted education
Maybe you've drunk the gifted cool aid too much then. First off it's advanced academics, not solely gifted and second writing more is definitely harder than writing less in school. Same for the book. Same for more math problems. You could say your thinking is just as limited as a rote curriculum. Doing more work is indeed harder. But as discussed before FCPS also isn't asking the hard questions at least in a way that is difficult. If they do ask a hard question it's a group discussion with no grade associated with it and they are few and far between so there is no work involved or editing to make your argument make more sense or be more convincing. One hard question ov3r a month as a group discussion doesn't make a challenging curriculum. Yes we all know or FCPSs portrait of a graduate skills but I don't actually think FCPS knows how to produce scholars of those abilities.
Omg. You really have no clue. More writing and more math problems are harder? Not at all true. Simply more time consuming. I suggest you take the 4 courses required to be certified in gifted education and then we can talk.
-signed, an FCPS teacher with a gifted endorsement from UVA
Anonymous
11/02/2022 06:04
Subject: Re:Middle School is way too easy
A lot of schools have learned how to provide advanced learning with more detailed work as well as gifted out of the box work in academics and various other creative pursuits related to academics. We don't have to live in this one dimensional world where you just receive or teach one or the other.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 05:58
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything? As a veteran parent, I feel like all I do is put a mark on myself for speaking up. So many parents I know have left for private because of issues like this though. Probably makes FCPS happy to have taxpayers not use their schools. Afternoons are too busy to make up for the lack of rigor during the day. Any recommendations that have worked?
Since you're neither leaving your school nor making time for afterschool enrichment, your best bet is to have your child sneak in their own material and discreetly work on it during classes when they get downtime (and Oh boy, there is a lot of downtime, so this shouldn't be hard!). This obviously assumes your child can do challenging work independently and keep it on the down low. If they don't think they can do that, then try the following in order as necessary:
1) Clearly explain to them that subverting oppressive authority will benefit them greatly later in life. If they don't believe you..
2) Explain to them the whole situation about how the school system sucks and that you're just trying to help, provide lots of DCUM evidence to hammer home the point. If they're still skeptical..
3) Offer rewards as a last resort and they will come around.
Creative. I like it.
Anonymous
11/02/2022 05:57
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should consider sending your kid to private school.
Most of the privates are much easier than FCPS AAP. We moved one from private back to FCPS and the curriculum in FCPS was far more challenging. Have heard the same from several others.
Name the private, please.
NP here. I think it is pretty well known in this area that FCPS middle and high schools are generally more rigorous than the standard private schools (in grades 7 through 12), especially in math and science. Temple Baptist, Dominion, Trinity, Oakcrest, GW Community, etc. Certainly, there are some private high schools that are arguably better and offer more options than FCPS high schools, but there are very few of them.
We have experience at two of the NOVA Catholic schools as well as FCPS and FCPS has been more rigorous for us (especially math).
Which grade? I know six families that moved to Catholic because they thought it was better and the kids agree it's much harder. Several catholic schools in the Arlington Diocese for middle school.
NP. I can name some schools. We've found middle school at Holy Spirit in Annandale to be much harder than the 7th-8th grade honors classes at Robinson (and elementary AAP also but that's outside the scope of this thread). So much so that I'm thinking about switching back to FCPS for next year. Holy Spirit was good for one of my kids but the workload and pace is just not working well for my child who is there now. If it were just some nightly math homework it would be no big deal but there are SO MANY tests and quizzes to study for, and writing assignments and massive long-term projects to worry about. Spanish is ridiculously hard and they teach that like it's a high school-level language class whether the 6th & 7th graders are ready for it or not. My oldest at Robinson had a much easier time than both younger kids and is now doing great in IB classes so I'm not sure if the extra rigor in middle school is necessary or appropriate unless the child is naturally super organized and already a master at executive functioning skills by the end of elementary. They say they teach those skills but really they just throw the kids into middle school and drastically ramp up the expectations without any supports built in so kids either sink or swim.
I agree catholic schools can have too many assignments for some kids but thank you for confirming that the AAP middle school classes are nowhere near an advanced level both in challenge and quantity. I don't know what private schools these kids are going to that are easier, but it would be hard to find a private school that was easier than FCPS and had no homework as well. They must be seeking them out because every other private school I've seen is harder. FCPS can do better with their AAP level classes. If you don't want that level, just do a regular ed class or honors class. No one is requiring kids to be in these upper level classes and from what I've heard honors classes are the same caliber as AAP so if you want to do honors for some classes and not others, you can do that as well. There is no need for FCPS to have such basic honors/ AAP classes.
Our experience is that Catholic school--which DC went to during Covid and the returned to public-- had a lot more work, but I'm not convinced it's 'harder' or more sophisticated work. Just more. Kind of tedious--lots of tests and quizzes, stricter grading. But my kid is also at Robinson now and I look at the things they do in social studies and it seems more sophisticated--analyzing primary documents etc. --and more interesting, but the workload is lighter. Also the electives are much better in public.
+1. This was our experience as well. A lot of what I would call "busy work" at the private school. If that is what you are interested in, OP, then you should just order some workbooks off of Amazon. Lots of options out there for extra practice.
No and I don't want my kid hating me. I think there are strong teachers that have a good middle ground of practice and challenge. It's sad actually that we can't have a discussion about challenging courses without people fighting over whether that just means busy work or not. It speaks to the fact that many people just don't care about challenging academics.
There are challenging courses that have a lot of projects. There are challenging courses that have a lot of writing papers and particularly in math there are challenging courses that have a lot of practice even if they also do a lot of challenge math type problems as well. But people who are academically minded can see when their kids are challenged and when they are not and they aren't so categorical in terms of how that challenge is always applied from class to class. Easy assignments and few of them even at the AAP level does not equal challenge in any way and that is what FCPS has become. Plenty of kids in middle have all A's and are doing very little work and very little challenging work. It doesn't check the "challenge box" in any way.
PP here. I feel like my kids were appropriately challenged by strong teachers at Rocky Run MS. It is sad that you cannot accept some people believe their FCPS middle school delivers challenging academics. You just say they are wrong without having any experience or knowledge of their middle school.
Not in the slightest. First off. Rocky Run is a major TJ feeder school, so from the beginning pages, we singled this school, Longfellow, Carson, and Luther Jackson out as schools that typically stepped up in providing a challenging curriculum being TJ feeders. Secondly, the question was framed as whether or not to talk to the school about the situation, not to put FCPS down that all schools were like this, or that all non-AAP classes have more challenges. I respect not everyone wants this or wants this in all subjects.
This was the original question and after 12 pages, only a couple of people have even believed me much less actually given advice related to the question.
"Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything?"
Well, I suppose the answer to your question is yes. If you are dissatisfied with your school's curriculum, then you should make an appointment with the administration to air your concerns.
But would they accept any suggestions? I don't think so.
Outside of more homework, what are your suggestions? You keep bringing up rigor, but have not provided any concrete examples of what that looks like. Gifted education is about diving deeper, not more work. It is about providing opportunities to analyze from various viewpoints or to look at the “why” of topics. It is not about a longer paper, more math problems, or reading an extra long book.
-Signed, Someone certified in gifted education
Maybe you've drunk the gifted cool aid too much then. First off it's advanced academics, not solely gifted and second writing more is definitely harder than writing less in school. Same for the book. Same for more math problems. You could say your thinking is just as limited as a rote curriculum. Doing more work is indeed harder. But as discussed before FCPS also isn't asking the hard questions at least in a way that is difficult. If they do ask a hard question it's a group discussion with no grade associated with it and they are few and far between so there is no work involved or editing to make your argument make more sense or be more convincing. One hard question ov3r a month as a group discussion doesn't make a challenging curriculum. Yes we all know or FCPSs portrait of a graduate skills but I don't actually think FCPS knows how to produce scholars of those abilities.
Anonymous
11/01/2022 22:21
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything? As a veteran parent, I feel like all I do is put a mark on myself for speaking up. So many parents I know have left for private because of issues like this though. Probably makes FCPS happy to have taxpayers not use their schools. Afternoons are too busy to make up for the lack of rigor during the day. Any recommendations that have worked?
Since you're neither leaving your school nor making time for afterschool enrichment, your best bet is to have your child sneak in their own material and discreetly work on it during classes when they get downtime (and Oh boy, there is a lot of downtime, so this shouldn't be hard!). This obviously assumes your child can do challenging work independently and keep it on the down low. If they don't think they can do that, then try the following in order as necessary:
1) Clearly explain to them that subverting oppressive authority will benefit them greatly later in life. If they don't believe you..
2) Explain to them the whole situation about how the school system sucks and that you're just trying to help, provide lots of DCUM evidence to hammer home the point. If they're still skeptical..
3) Offer rewards as a last resort and they will come around.
Anonymous
11/01/2022 18:59
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should consider sending your kid to private school.
Most of the privates are much easier than FCPS AAP. We moved one from private back to FCPS and the curriculum in FCPS was far more challenging. Have heard the same from several others.
Name the private, please.
NP here. I think it is pretty well known in this area that FCPS middle and high schools are generally more rigorous than the standard private schools (in grades 7 through 12), especially in math and science. Temple Baptist, Dominion, Trinity, Oakcrest, GW Community, etc. Certainly, there are some private high schools that are arguably better and offer more options than FCPS high schools, but there are very few of them.
We have experience at two of the NOVA Catholic schools as well as FCPS and FCPS has been more rigorous for us (especially math).
Which grade? I know six families that moved to Catholic because they thought it was better and the kids agree it's much harder. Several catholic schools in the Arlington Diocese for middle school.
NP. I can name some schools. We've found middle school at Holy Spirit in Annandale to be much harder than the 7th-8th grade honors classes at Robinson (and elementary AAP also but that's outside the scope of this thread). So much so that I'm thinking about switching back to FCPS for next year. Holy Spirit was good for one of my kids but the workload and pace is just not working well for my child who is there now. If it were just some nightly math homework it would be no big deal but there are SO MANY tests and quizzes to study for, and writing assignments and massive long-term projects to worry about. Spanish is ridiculously hard and they teach that like it's a high school-level language class whether the 6th & 7th graders are ready for it or not. My oldest at Robinson had a much easier time than both younger kids and is now doing great in IB classes so I'm not sure if the extra rigor in middle school is necessary or appropriate unless the child is naturally super organized and already a master at executive functioning skills by the end of elementary. They say they teach those skills but really they just throw the kids into middle school and drastically ramp up the expectations without any supports built in so kids either sink or swim.
I agree catholic schools can have too many assignments for some kids but thank you for confirming that the AAP middle school classes are nowhere near an advanced level both in challenge and quantity. I don't know what private schools these kids are going to that are easier, but it would be hard to find a private school that was easier than FCPS and had no homework as well. They must be seeking them out because every other private school I've seen is harder. FCPS can do better with their AAP level classes. If you don't want that level, just do a regular ed class or honors class. No one is requiring kids to be in these upper level classes and from what I've heard honors classes are the same caliber as AAP so if you want to do honors for some classes and not others, you can do that as well. There is no need for FCPS to have such basic honors/ AAP classes.
Our experience is that Catholic school--which DC went to during Covid and the returned to public-- had a lot more work, but I'm not convinced it's 'harder' or more sophisticated work. Just more. Kind of tedious--lots of tests and quizzes, stricter grading. But my kid is also at Robinson now and I look at the things they do in social studies and it seems more sophisticated--analyzing primary documents etc. --and more interesting, but the workload is lighter. Also the electives are much better in public.
+1. This was our experience as well. A lot of what I would call "busy work" at the private school. If that is what you are interested in, OP, then you should just order some workbooks off of Amazon. Lots of options out there for extra practice.
No and I don't want my kid hating me. I think there are strong teachers that have a good middle ground of practice and challenge. It's sad actually that we can't have a discussion about challenging courses without people fighting over whether that just means busy work or not. It speaks to the fact that many people just don't care about challenging academics.
There are challenging courses that have a lot of projects. There are challenging courses that have a lot of writing papers and particularly in math there are challenging courses that have a lot of practice even if they also do a lot of challenge math type problems as well. But people who are academically minded can see when their kids are challenged and when they are not and they aren't so categorical in terms of how that challenge is always applied from class to class. Easy assignments and few of them even at the AAP level does not equal challenge in any way and that is what FCPS has become. Plenty of kids in middle have all A's and are doing very little work and very little challenging work. It doesn't check the "challenge box" in any way.
PP here. I feel like my kids were appropriately challenged by strong teachers at Rocky Run MS. It is sad that you cannot accept some people believe their FCPS middle school delivers challenging academics. You just say they are wrong without having any experience or knowledge of their middle school.
Not in the slightest. First off. Rocky Run is a major TJ feeder school, so from the beginning pages, we singled this school, Longfellow, Carson, and Luther Jackson out as schools that typically stepped up in providing a challenging curriculum being TJ feeders. Secondly, the question was framed as whether or not to talk to the school about the situation, not to put FCPS down that all schools were like this, or that all non-AAP classes have more challenges. I respect not everyone wants this or wants this in all subjects.
This was the original question and after 12 pages, only a couple of people have even believed me much less actually given advice related to the question.
"Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything?"
Well, I suppose the answer to your question is yes. If you are dissatisfied with your school's curriculum, then you should make an appointment with the administration to air your concerns.
But would they accept any suggestions? I don't think so.
So it sounds to me that you have already made up your mind... you do not want to try to discuss with your school, you do not want to supplement at home, you do not want to switch schools, etc. I would suggest then that you focus on other things in your life.
Anonymous
11/01/2022 18:58
Subject: Middle School is way too easy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should consider sending your kid to private school.
Most of the privates are much easier than FCPS AAP. We moved one from private back to FCPS and the curriculum in FCPS was far more challenging. Have heard the same from several others.
Name the private, please.
NP here. I think it is pretty well known in this area that FCPS middle and high schools are generally more rigorous than the standard private schools (in grades 7 through 12), especially in math and science. Temple Baptist, Dominion, Trinity, Oakcrest, GW Community, etc. Certainly, there are some private high schools that are arguably better and offer more options than FCPS high schools, but there are very few of them.
We have experience at two of the NOVA Catholic schools as well as FCPS and FCPS has been more rigorous for us (especially math).
Which grade? I know six families that moved to Catholic because they thought it was better and the kids agree it's much harder. Several catholic schools in the Arlington Diocese for middle school.
NP. I can name some schools. We've found middle school at Holy Spirit in Annandale to be much harder than the 7th-8th grade honors classes at Robinson (and elementary AAP also but that's outside the scope of this thread). So much so that I'm thinking about switching back to FCPS for next year. Holy Spirit was good for one of my kids but the workload and pace is just not working well for my child who is there now. If it were just some nightly math homework it would be no big deal but there are SO MANY tests and quizzes to study for, and writing assignments and massive long-term projects to worry about. Spanish is ridiculously hard and they teach that like it's a high school-level language class whether the 6th & 7th graders are ready for it or not. My oldest at Robinson had a much easier time than both younger kids and is now doing great in IB classes so I'm not sure if the extra rigor in middle school is necessary or appropriate unless the child is naturally super organized and already a master at executive functioning skills by the end of elementary. They say they teach those skills but really they just throw the kids into middle school and drastically ramp up the expectations without any supports built in so kids either sink or swim.
I agree catholic schools can have too many assignments for some kids but thank you for confirming that the AAP middle school classes are nowhere near an advanced level both in challenge and quantity. I don't know what private schools these kids are going to that are easier, but it would be hard to find a private school that was easier than FCPS and had no homework as well. They must be seeking them out because every other private school I've seen is harder. FCPS can do better with their AAP level classes. If you don't want that level, just do a regular ed class or honors class. No one is requiring kids to be in these upper level classes and from what I've heard honors classes are the same caliber as AAP so if you want to do honors for some classes and not others, you can do that as well. There is no need for FCPS to have such basic honors/ AAP classes.
Our experience is that Catholic school--which DC went to during Covid and the returned to public-- had a lot more work, but I'm not convinced it's 'harder' or more sophisticated work. Just more. Kind of tedious--lots of tests and quizzes, stricter grading. But my kid is also at Robinson now and I look at the things they do in social studies and it seems more sophisticated--analyzing primary documents etc. --and more interesting, but the workload is lighter. Also the electives are much better in public.
+1. This was our experience as well. A lot of what I would call "busy work" at the private school. If that is what you are interested in, OP, then you should just order some workbooks off of Amazon. Lots of options out there for extra practice.
No and I don't want my kid hating me. I think there are strong teachers that have a good middle ground of practice and challenge. It's sad actually that we can't have a discussion about challenging courses without people fighting over whether that just means busy work or not. It speaks to the fact that many people just don't care about challenging academics.
There are challenging courses that have a lot of projects. There are challenging courses that have a lot of writing papers and particularly in math there are challenging courses that have a lot of practice even if they also do a lot of challenge math type problems as well. But people who are academically minded can see when their kids are challenged and when they are not and they aren't so categorical in terms of how that challenge is always applied from class to class. Easy assignments and few of them even at the AAP level does not equal challenge in any way and that is what FCPS has become. Plenty of kids in middle have all A's and are doing very little work and very little challenging work. It doesn't check the "challenge box" in any way.
PP here. I feel like my kids were appropriately challenged by strong teachers at Rocky Run MS. It is sad that you cannot accept some people believe their FCPS middle school delivers challenging academics. You just say they are wrong without having any experience or knowledge of their middle school.
Not in the slightest. First off. Rocky Run is a major TJ feeder school, so from the beginning pages, we singled this school, Longfellow, Carson, and Luther Jackson out as schools that typically stepped up in providing a challenging curriculum being TJ feeders. Secondly, the question was framed as whether or not to talk to the school about the situation, not to put FCPS down that all schools were like this, or that all non-AAP classes have more challenges. I respect not everyone wants this or wants this in all subjects.
This was the original question and after 12 pages, only a couple of people have even believed me much less actually given advice related to the question.
"Kid is in AAP and the curriculum is barely general ed level. I have friends in other districts, not in honors, having more work and more rigor day to day. No homework all year long beyond maybe 30 minutes a week and we are at the end of the first quarter. This is my second kid going through the system and I thought it was weak before but now it's so much weaker and my first kid already wasn't prepared for high school. Should I say anything?"
Well, I suppose the answer to your question is yes. If you are dissatisfied with your school's curriculum, then you should make an appointment with the administration to air your concerns.
But would they accept any suggestions? I don't think so.
Outside of more homework, what are your suggestions? You keep bringing up rigor, but have not provided any concrete examples of what that looks like. Gifted education is about diving deeper, not more work. It is about providing opportunities to analyze from various viewpoints or to look at the “why” of topics. It is not about a longer paper, more math problems, or reading an extra long book.
-Signed, Someone certified in gifted education