Laxers love to drink and party. Everyone knows it. Even people, like myself, who didn't grow up in a lax hotbed. Though I did go to a university (not UVA) which is a lax power. The culture is not just at one school. It's likely at EVERY school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: has Huguely been charged with what I think are called "lesser included offenses" (per my great viewing of Law & Order lol) -- for example, second degree murder? Or is the prosecution going for first degree murder only to make the jury make the tough choice? I ask this because I was reading a Charlottesville trial blog and a fair amount of posters were saying things like "it wasn't his fault bc she was drunk." It makes me think you might actually have some people on the jury who let him off if their only choice is first degree murder.

GH's been charged on 5 counts. The judge will instruct on a menu of lesser crimes. Even the state in closing arguments seems to be backing off M1. I've been following the trial and blogs closely. I haven't seen anyone suggest and I dont think any rational person could argue that this was YL's fault because she was drunk. Most think GH will be convicted of some type of involuntary manslaughter and some of the lesser crimes, breaking and entering. With involuntary, he faces up to 40 years.

I would find it shocking and upsetting if he were only convicted of involuntary manslaughter -- isn't that more commonly used for drunk driving? And even if the upper limit of the sentence were 40 years I'm sure the likelihood that he would be out in 10-20 years would be relatively high. I guess I could see voluntary manslaughter, on the idea that he was so drunk he couldn't gauge the amount of force he was using and didn't intend to kill her, but involuntary manslaughter would really feel minimal under the circumstances.

Thanks for weighing in with this info, it is interesting.

Anonymous wrote:Question: has Huguely been charged with what I think are called "lesser included offenses" (per my great viewing of Law & Order lol) -- for example, second degree murder? Or is the prosecution going for first degree murder only to make the jury make the tough choice? I ask this because I was reading a Charlottesville trial blog and a fair amount of posters were saying things like "it wasn't his fault bc she was drunk." It makes me think you might actually have some people on the jury who let him off if their only choice is first degree murder.

GH's been charged on 5 counts. The judge will instruct on a menu of lesser crimes. Even the state in closing arguments seems to be backing off M1. I've been following the trial and blogs closely. I haven't seen anyone suggest and I dont think any rational person could argue that this was YL's fault because she was drunk. Most think GH will be convicted of some type of involuntary manslaughter and some of the lesser crimes, breaking and entering. With involuntary, he faces up to 40 years.

Question: has Huguely been charged with what I think are called "lesser included offenses" (per my great viewing of Law & Order lol) -- for example, second degree murder? Or is the prosecution going for first degree murder only to make the jury make the tough choice? I ask this because I was reading a Charlottesville trial blog and a fair amount of posters were saying things like "it wasn't his fault bc she was drunk." It makes me think you might actually have some people on the jury who let him off if their only choice is first degree murder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVa and its athletics department should be doing some serious soul-searching and house-cleaning similar to what PSU is/should be doing now. I'm surprised UVa hasn't been more scrutinized by this -- VaTech and Penn State and others certainly were.

I too think the culture of unsupervised binge partying is shocking; however the UVA men's team is the defending national champion. Starsia is a sacred cow in Charlottesville, safe unless he is the one in the criminal dock.

I don't know if anyone was more sacred or revered, for 40 years, than Joe Paterno. And look what happened to him in the face of scandal. I don't know how UVA is getting away with murder here. (And I'm a UVA fan)

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I think if Penn State had been the defending national champion they would not have fired Paterno. Remember that five or so years ago the PSU President tried to convince Paterno to step down -- not because of scandal, but because of a dip in the success of the program. I think Starsia has a lot to answer for, but I'm not sure the UVA admin is asking any questions other than "can we repeat"? Odd, because UVA is much more famous as a stellar research university than as a lacrosse hotbed, but there you go.

I hear what you're saying but I don't know if people get the JoePa/PSU/College Park/Central PA thing. They act like they did win the national championship last year and every year before. Maybe I'm too much of a football junkie to see clearly (I'm originally from western PA and live in NoVa now) but before GH, I could not have told you one fact about UVa lacrosse. UVa lacrosse is a losing $$ game for the university (compare the untold millions football has brought PSU) so why not take the high road, clean house and show some outrage over this murder and culture of alcohol abuse?

Good point on the football culture of Pennsylvania and Paterno's stature as a local icon. Here's another thought. Duke fired its lacrosse coach when the rape allegations emerged, and it is generally believed they later had to give him a hefty financial settlement when the rape case collapsed. I was sort of surprised -- I thought the "annual stripper party" antics of the Duke lacrosse program would have been enough for a school to say "we don't like the culture and relieve you for cause" -- but clearly the Duke in-house counsel thought Duke would have exposure. So maybe UVA is afraid of something like that with Starsia. I do still agree with you -- just trying to think about why UVA isn't taking such actions[b].

Well it seems UVA is getting no pressure to take action. And why is that? What isn't the UVA community, Charlottesville, the public, the media, anyone calling for UVA to accept some responsibility here or to at least go through the motions of "looking into it" and making a few recommendations?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVa and its athletics department should be doing some serious soul-searching and house-cleaning similar to what PSU is/should be doing now. I'm surprised UVa hasn't been more scrutinized by this -- VaTech and Penn State and others certainly were.

I too think the culture of unsupervised binge partying is shocking; however the UVA men's team is the defending national champion. Starsia is a sacred cow in Charlottesville, safe unless he is the one in the criminal dock.

I don't know if anyone was more sacred or revered, for 40 years, than Joe Paterno. And look what happened to him in the face of scandal. I don't know how UVA is getting away with murder here. (And I'm a UVA fan)

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I think if Penn State had been the defending national champion they would not have fired Paterno. Remember that five or so years ago the PSU President tried to convince Paterno to step down -- not because of scandal, but because of a dip in the success of the program. I think Starsia has a lot to answer for, but I'm not sure the UVA admin is asking any questions other than "can we repeat"? Odd, because UVA is much more famous as a stellar research university than as a lacrosse hotbed, but there you go.

I hear what you're saying but I don't know if people get the JoePa/PSU/College Park/Central PA thing. They act like they did win the national championship last year and every year before. Maybe I'm too much of a football junkie to see clearly (I'm originally from western PA and live in NoVa now) but before GH, I could not have told you one fact about UVa lacrosse. UVa lacrosse is a losing $$ game for the university (compare the untold millions football has brought PSU) so why not take the high road, clean house and show some outrage over this murder and culture of alcohol abuse?

Good point on the football culture of Pennsylvania and Paterno's stature as a local icon. Here's another thought. Duke fired its lacrosse coach when the rape allegations emerged, and it is generally believed they later had to give him a hefty financial settlement when the rape case collapsed. I was sort of surprised -- I thought the "annual stripper party" antics of the Duke lacrosse program would have been enough for a school to say "we don't like the culture and relieve you for cause" -- but clearly the Duke in-house counsel thought Duke would have exposure. So maybe UVA is afraid of something like that with Starsia. I do still agree with you -- just trying to think about why UVA isn't taking such actions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, we've learned plenty about the UVA teams this week.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-whitney-houston-and-yeardley-love-stories-substance-abuse-an-unfortunate-theme/2012/02/13/gIQAxfQwBR_story.html?hpid=z3

Unfortunately we've learned how much alcohol plays into the culture of Lacrosse at UVA and how deadly that mixture can become. I don't buy for a second that the men's and possibly the women's lacrosse coach did not see the amount of drinking these kids were doing, the problems that were coming up from it and did nothing to stop it.
Why the men's lacrosse coach hasn't been fired is hard to understand. He lets the culture continue.

UVa and its athletics department should be doing some serious soul-searching and house-cleaning similar to what PSU is/should be doing now. I'm surprised UVa hasn't been more scrutinized by this -- VaTech and Penn State and others certainly were.

I too think the culture of unsupervised binge partying is shocking; however the UVA men's team is the defending national champion. Starsia is a sacred cow in Charlottesville, safe unless he is the one in the criminal dock.

Well I assume those laxers less than age 21 were also drinking at events like the father/son golf tournament and dinner. Supervised by parents.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7578803/virginia-cavaliers-lacrosse-trial-friend-says-george-huguely-returned-blank-stare

Living at the Boylan Heights bar
http://www.c-ville.com/Blog/Huguely_Trial_Blog/Huguely_Trial_Blog_The_Relationship_Living_at_the_bar/?act=post

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVa and its athletics department should be doing some serious soul-searching and house-cleaning similar to what PSU is/should be doing now. I'm surprised UVa hasn't been more scrutinized by this -- VaTech and Penn State and others certainly were.

I too think the culture of unsupervised binge partying is shocking; however the UVA men's team is the defending national champion. Starsia is a sacred cow in Charlottesville, safe unless he is the one in the criminal dock.

I don't know if anyone was more sacred or revered, for 40 years, than Joe Paterno. And look what happened to him in the face of scandal. I don't know how UVA is getting away with murder here. (And I'm a UVA fan)

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I think if Penn State had been the defending national champion they would not have fired Paterno. Remember that five or so years ago the PSU President tried to convince Paterno to step down -- not because of scandal, but because of a dip in the success of the program. I think Starsia has a lot to answer for, but I'm not sure the UVA admin is asking any questions other than "can we repeat"? Odd, because UVA is much more famous as a stellar research university than as a lacrosse hotbed, but there you go.

I hear what you're saying but I don't know if people get the JoePa/PSU/College Park/Central PA thing. They act like they did win the national championship last year and every year before. Maybe I'm too much of a football junkie to see clearly (I'm originally from western PA and live in NoVa now) but before GH, I could not have told you one fact about UVa lacrosse. UVa lacrosse is a losing $$ game for the university (compare the untold millions football has brought PSU) so why not take the high road, clean house and show some outrage over this murder and culture of alcohol abuse?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVa and its athletics department should be doing some serious soul-searching and house-cleaning similar to what PSU is/should be doing now. I'm surprised UVa hasn't been more scrutinized by this -- VaTech and Penn State and others certainly were.


I too think the culture of unsupervised binge partying is shocking; however the UVA men's team is the defending national champion. Starsia is a sacred cow in Charlottesville, safe unless he is the one in the criminal dock.

I don't know if anyone was more sacred or revered, for 40 years, than Joe Paterno. And look what happened to him in the face of scandal. I don't know how UVA is getting away with murder here. (And I'm a UVA fan)

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I think if Penn State had been the defending national champion they would not have fired Paterno. Remember that five or so years ago the PSU President tried to convince Paterno to step down -- not because of scandal, but because of a dip in the success of the program. I think Starsia has a lot to answer for, but I'm not sure the UVA admin is asking any questions other than "can we repeat"? Odd, because UVA is much more famous as a stellar research university than as a lacrosse hotbed, but there you go.

The telling qoute in the Washington Post article is "stereotypes have a basis in fact." This is true whether you're talking about racial stereotypes, religious stereotypes or laxer stereotypes. There is always some factual basis for the stereotype ( which does NOT men that the stereotype actually applies to all). The way to eliminate the stereotype is for the entire group to change the behavior that resulted in the stereotype. Laxers have to clean up their image instead of complaining about those who draw rational conclusions based on what they observe.

Anonymous wrote:UVa and its athletics department should be doing some serious soul-searching and house-cleaning similar to what PSU is/should be doing now. I'm surprised UVa hasn't been more scrutinized by this -- VaTech and Penn State and others certainly were.


I too think the culture of unsupervised binge partying is shocking; however the UVA men's team is the defending national champion. Starsia is a sacred cow in Charlottesville, safe unless he is the one in the criminal dock.

I don't know if anyone was more sacred or revered, for 40 years, than Joe Paterno. And look what happened to him in the face of scandal. I don't know how UVA is getting away with murder here. (And I'm a UVA fan)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, we've learned plenty about the UVA teams this week.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-whitney-houston-and-yeardley-love-stories-substance-abuse-an-unfortunate-theme/2012/02/13/gIQAxfQwBR_story.html?hpid=z3

Unfortunately we've learned how much alcohol plays into the culture of Lacrosse at UVA and how deadly that mixture can become. I don't buy for a second that the men's and possibly the women's lacrosse coach did not see the amount of drinking these kids were doing, the problems that were coming up from it and did nothing to stop it.
Why the men's lacrosse coach hasn't been fired is hard to understand. He lets the culture continue.

UVa and its athletics department should be doing some serious soul-searching and house-cleaning similar to what PSU is/should be doing now. I'm surprised UVa hasn't been more scrutinized by this -- VaTech and Penn State and others certainly were.

I too think the culture of unsupervised binge partying is shocking; however the UVA men's team is the defending national champion. Starsia is a sacred cow in Charlottesville, safe unless he is the one in the criminal dock.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has the issue of "lacrosse culture" come up in the Huguely trial?

why would it? Did "private school culture" come up? Or perhaps "Washington, DC culture"? Not sure where you were going with this question.

See today's WAPO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, we've learned plenty about the UVA teams this week.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-whitney-houston-and-yeardley-love-stories-substance-abuse-an-unfortunate-theme/2012/02/13/gIQAxfQwBR_story.html?hpid=z3

Unfortunately we've learned how much alcohol plays into the culture of Lacrosse at UVA and how deadly that mixture can become. I don't buy for a second that the men's and possibly the women's lacrosse coach did not see the amount of drinking these kids were doing, the problems that were coming up from it and did nothing to stop it.
Why the men's lacrosse coach hasn't been fired is hard to understand. He lets the culture continue.

UVa and its athletics department should be doing some serious soul-searching and house-cleaning similar to what PSU is/should be doing now. I'm surprised UVa hasn't been more scrutinized by this -- VaTech and Penn State and others certainly were.

Besides this garbage how about UVA [cheap tuition] giving lax scholarships? And yes there is a big dip in academic qualification. How much did Huguely as well as Love get taken off ? I should think the lowered admission standard was enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, we've learned plenty about the UVA teams this week.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-whitney-houston-and-yeardley-love-stories-substance-abuse-an-unfortunate-theme/2012/02/13/gIQAxfQwBR_story.html?hpid=z3

Unfortunately we've learned how much alcohol plays into the culture of Lacrosse at UVA and how deadly that mixture can become. I don't buy for a second that the men's and possibly the women's lacrosse coach did not see the amount of drinking these kids were doing, the problems that were coming up from it and did nothing to stop it.
Why the men's lacrosse coach hasn't been fired is hard to understand. He lets the culture continue.

UVa and its athletics department should be doing some serious soul-searching and house-cleaning similar to what PSU is/should be doing now. I'm surprised UVa hasn't been more scrutinized by this -- VaTech and Penn State and others certainly were.