Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.

That isn't "receptive" that is coercion.

This.

I agree. Good luck having a relationship with this kid once they're free and independent. Maybe you'll get a holiday card every couple of years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.

That isn't "receptive" that is coercion.

This.

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th

Puh-lease. Not a single person, ever, has said that hard work and ambition are bad. What's bad is the idea that you must be 'the best' and the idea that 'hard work and ambition' should be valued most. I came from a disadvantaged childhood and had a burning desire to improve my circumstances. My kids are in a different place, don't have that burning desire and I am GLAD.

While I did what I had to do to get where I am, the cost was high. I require my kids to put in effort but I will not demand they achieve. They are expected to be educated, self-reliant, involved in family and, once their work/chores are done, they are free to enjoy life.

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.

That isn't "receptive" that is coercion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From your post, OP, it sounds like you have one dc? If so, and I am not being unkind, but your sample of one is really hard to use as a claim that pushing works.

I have two dc and they are so different! Same with friends and family. As an older parent, I will say that what we think is our parenting ( short of abuse, neglect, etc) is nature so don’t take all the credit😀 Most of what kids do and or become is nature.

One dc you push might fight, withdraw, do drugs, suicide. Another may comply and you think it’s your parenting.

Observe their strengths, recognize weaknesses. model and show respect, relay importance of them to meet obligations/ commitments, require home keeping and family support starting with small tasks, and provide empathy and leeway when they faulter.

This idea of must get As, must take most rigorous only works if child is capable and wants it. It is not you. Also remember life is long!

One example, one dc truly musically gifted. They asked for lessons and thrived. At some point in early teen years we fought about practice time, teacher disappointed as wanted more. However, I knew that dc just loved music and their adult self would be so happy that they could play their instrument. So I let perfection go, I told teacher to let their talent go ( as they did not want it for performance) and accepted less than what was required for practice.

Fast forward to dc22 yr old self who relaxes by playing instrument. If we had pushed, they would have stopped at 14 and the previous ten years would have been wasted.

Lastly, my parents modeled hard work but never pushed. I pushed myself and turned out great😀

you don't know this.

I think PP has about a 95% chance of being correct, and correct or not, there was the additional risk of a rupture in the relationship. Being constantly told you have to give more and more and more because you have talent, when you are perfectly content where you are, doesn't really endear you to your parent.

+1 and especially when the activity you might be breaking the relationship for is a hobby like music or sports. I can, maybe, depending on circumstances, see the value in the higher bar for academics (assuming the bar is achievable and the kid buys into it), but what is the end game in forcing a kid to do so much of a hobby that they come to hate it. Do adults want other people berating then for not doing their hobbies at an acceptably rigorous level? Would you want your husband telling you it's not ok to just go for a run each evening, you have to run a marathon?

My 17 yr old DD is a really good artist. She's taken occasional art classes over the years including a few years in MS at a pretty serious art camp. She loves it as a private activity and is a big source of stress relief. She does not want to take art classes at school and never entered anything on a competition. But, she spends at least an hour every day drawing/painting and brings her talent into projects in other classes when possible. So, following her own bliss, this is something that makes her happy and enriches other parts of her life.

But, OP's mindset would suggest that I should insist that she MUST develop this talent on a schedule/intensity that I impose. Make her go to lessons, give up a school class slot for art, tell her she's letting me down if she doesn't get pieces accepted in competitions. All for an end game of what? Really, what is the goal here? She doesn't want a career in art and surely if she did that is a road that really needs to be self-driven. I'm glad she has a hobby she enjoys and because she enjoys it and has figured out how to fit it in her life in a way that she can do it forever.

Too many parents seem to value hobbies only as college application items, conveying the idea that it is the only reason to do these things. This is reinforced by the fact that many adults don't spend time on hobbies. So they aren't modeling the value of doing things just for joy.

Your kid is not receptive to your pushing. Your kid is dominated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th

I think the way people penalize a person for wanting to do nothing but enjoy themselves even sadder. What is the point? We are all going to die? Why do I need to pushed into doing all these things I don't want to do when all I want to do is sit around and enjoy the present moment?

+1. If I had tons of money, I'd work 2 days a month on something I like, but otherwise spend my days chilling out on my own private island, where I hire everyone to do work for me. I'm not pushing myself!

So cool. On the flip side, all the billionaires I know work extremely hard at their companies, families, volunteering and giving back and work well past their 70s. Plus take great vacations and read monthly hardcovers. Like David rubenstein.

snort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From your post, OP, it sounds like you have one dc? If so, and I am not being unkind, but your sample of one is really hard to use as a claim that pushing works.

I have two dc and they are so different! Same with friends and family. As an older parent, I will say that what we think is our parenting ( short of abuse, neglect, etc) is nature so don’t take all the credit😀 Most of what kids do and or become is nature.

One dc you push might fight, withdraw, do drugs, suicide. Another may comply and you think it’s your parenting.

Observe their strengths, recognize weaknesses. model and show respect, relay importance of them to meet obligations/ commitments, require home keeping and family support starting with small tasks, and provide empathy and leeway when they faulter.

This idea of must get As, must take most rigorous only works if child is capable and wants it. It is not you. Also remember life is long!

One example, one dc truly musically gifted. They asked for lessons and thrived. At some point in early teen years we fought about practice time, teacher disappointed as wanted more. However, I knew that dc just loved music and their adult self would be so happy that they could play their instrument. So I let perfection go, I told teacher to let their talent go ( as they did not want it for performance) and accepted less than what was required for practice.

Fast forward to dc22 yr old self who relaxes by playing instrument. If we had pushed, they would have stopped at 14 and the previous ten years would have been wasted.

Lastly, my parents modeled hard work but never pushed. I pushed myself and turned out great😀

you don't know this.

I think PP has about a 95% chance of being correct, and correct or not, there was the additional risk of a rupture in the relationship. Being constantly told you have to give more and more and more because you have talent, when you are perfectly content where you are, doesn't really endear you to your parent.

"give more and more" - of what? watching tik Tok? making pouting selfies?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th

I think the way people penalize a person for wanting to do nothing but enjoy themselves even sadder. What is the point? We are all going to die? Why do I need to pushed into doing all these things I don't want to do when all I want to do is sit around and enjoy the present moment?

+1. If I had tons of money, I'd work 2 days a month on something I like, but otherwise spend my days chilling out on my own private island, where I hire everyone to do work for me. I'm not pushing myself!

So cool. On the flip side, all the billionaires I know work extremely hard at their companies, families, volunteering and giving back and work well past their 70s. Plus take great vacations and read monthly hardcovers. Like David rubenstein.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th

I think the way people penalize a person for wanting to do nothing but enjoy themselves even sadder. What is the point? We are all going to die? Why do I need to pushed into doing all these things I don't want to do when all I want to do is sit around and enjoy the present moment?

Exactly. Why do anything? Why try to accomplish anything? Especially things that take time and lots of energy and trials. What a waste of a one’s years. So many better things to do- like video games, movies, books, get high, be in nature.

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. I push my kids. I am also a teacher. Most people are lazy. Most students who do well have parents with high expectations. A few are intrinsically motivated. It is sad when I have brilliant students do the bare minimum. Their parents don't push them, so they don't care.

I think it is sad that our culture is now looking at hard work and ambition as things that are bad. When I think of those ideas it is not associated with wealth or title. Why not do the best at what you do? If you make sandwiches for a living, why not be the best sandwich maker? Their is value and beauty in th

+1. Many have no pride in self or their work or efforts. Entitled and lazy.

Anonymous wrote:I’m just not running the same race as OP. I’ve known plenty of accomplished people who were terrible humans. I’m raising kind and responsible people.

Also, next time maybe don’t put “mental health” in quotes.

I guess our family isn’t running the same race, either. I expect my children to put forth best effort, but I won’t be pushing them to overextend themselves. Perhaps our families all define success in different ways. I don’t need them to have impressive titles or high salaries. I want them to love their families, enjoy their jobs, and contribute positively to the world around them. That’s a successful life. That’s how I was raised and I am a very functionally, happy adult.

Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."

False equivalency: pushing the kid doesn't = developing an amazing work ethic. It's really that simple.

Signed,
Mom to 4 grown children

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From your post, OP, it sounds like you have one dc? If so, and I am not being unkind, but your sample of one is really hard to use as a claim that pushing works.

I have two dc and they are so different! Same with friends and family. As an older parent, I will say that what we think is our parenting ( short of abuse, neglect, etc) is nature so don’t take all the credit😀 Most of what kids do and or become is nature.

One dc you push might fight, withdraw, do drugs, suicide. Another may comply and you think it’s your parenting.

Observe their strengths, recognize weaknesses. model and show respect, relay importance of them to meet obligations/ commitments, require home keeping and family support starting with small tasks, and provide empathy and leeway when they faulter.

This idea of must get As, must take most rigorous only works if child is capable and wants it. It is not you. Also remember life is long!

One example, one dc truly musically gifted. They asked for lessons and thrived. At some point in early teen years we fought about practice time, teacher disappointed as wanted more. However, I knew that dc just loved music and their adult self would be so happy that they could play their instrument. So I let perfection go, I told teacher to let their talent go ( as they did not want it for performance) and accepted less than what was required for practice.

Fast forward to dc22 yr old self who relaxes by playing instrument. If we had pushed, they would have stopped at 14 and the previous ten years would have been wasted.

Lastly, my parents modeled hard work but never pushed. I pushed myself and turned out great😀

you don't know this.

I think PP has about a 95% chance of being correct, and correct or not, there was the additional risk of a rupture in the relationship. Being constantly told you have to give more and more and more because you have talent, when you are perfectly content where you are, doesn't really endear you to your parent.

Anonymous wrote:From your post, OP, it sounds like you have one dc? If so, and I am not being unkind, but your sample of one is really hard to use as a claim that pushing works.

I have two dc and they are so different! Same with friends and family. As an older parent, I will say that what we think is our parenting ( short of abuse, neglect, etc) is nature so don’t take all the credit😀 Most of what kids do and or become is nature.

One dc you push might fight, withdraw, do drugs, suicide. Another may comply and you think it’s your parenting.

Observe their strengths, recognize weaknesses. model and show respect, relay importance of them to meet obligations/ commitments, require home keeping and family support starting with small tasks, and provide empathy and leeway when they faulter.

This idea of must get As, must take most rigorous only works if child is capable and wants it. It is not you. Also remember life is long!

One example, one dc truly musically gifted. They asked for lessons and thrived. At some point in early teen years we fought about practice time, teacher disappointed as wanted more. However, I knew that dc just loved music and their adult self would be so happy that they could play their instrument. So I let perfection go, I told teacher to let their talent go ( as they did not want it for performance) and accepted less than what was required for practice.

Fast forward to dc22 yr old self who relaxes by playing instrument. If we had pushed, they would have stopped at 14 and the previous ten years would have been wasted.

Lastly, my parents modeled hard work but never pushed. I pushed myself and turned out great😀

you don't know this.