Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a gut decision. Your DC makes it. You have the money. You said either was possible.

If I were the parent, and I had the money, I’d lean toward Harvard but leave the decision to my child.

The quality of the classroom education would be similar.

The overall level of fun would be similar.

But you only live once, and it’s simply really fun to be able to say you or your child went to Harvard, and I think kids who go to Harvard have a chance to experience amazing things most other people will never experience.

The financial ROI might not be any different, but, assuming that you can give your child a good experience without becoming homeless, why base a decision like that on financial ROI?

But, on the other hand: If a family goes through the Harvard financial aid appeals process, and sending a kid to Harvard would force the family to take out huge PLUS loans, or wreck the college plans for a sibling, then the family should choose UVa. If sending a kid to Harvard isn’t really possible, it’s not possible, and that’s life. A kid sophisticated enough to get into Harvard should be able to handle the concept that you can’t always get what you want.

I think this is different for different people and not a given at all.

My neighbor went to Harvard and she actually avoids talking about it. She feels that people make assumptions based on hearing that she went to Harvard. Or there can be snarky comments like ‘You went to Harvard, but you can’t figure out how to program this software, etc’.

Going to Harvard likely comes with its own baggage and it depends on what your kids wants.

But going to Harvard just so your mom can tell people about it seems slight weird to me!

Maybe choosing based on your mom is weird. But it seems as if being able to say you went to Harvard would be a guilty pleasure. People can’t actually get away with saying that without a cost, but at least they can think that to themselves really hard. And maybe it’s not really the best university, but it’s still Harvard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard. Easiest choice in the world.

No it isn’t, especially if an MBA is in the cards.

The kid doesn't need an MBA if they study Econ at Harvard undergrad and want to go into business/Wall Street/consulting. No need to get an MBA, just keep moving up the ladder in their given industry.

Leaving the workforce for a 2 year MBA is literally a $600K immediate hit to net worth ($250K for MBA tuition + expenses, plus $350K for lost wages + benefits).

My years in graduate school were awesome. It was wonderful to step away from the slog of working for 2 years!

Not everything is about money, especially in a career where there will be plenty of money made before and after grad school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a gut decision. Your DC makes it. You have the money. You said either was possible.

If I were the parent, and I had the money, I’d lean toward Harvard but leave the decision to my child.

The quality of the classroom education would be similar.

The overall level of fun would be similar.

But you only live once, and it’s simply really fun to be able to say you or your child went to Harvard, and I think kids who go to Harvard have a chance to experience amazing things most other people will never experience.

The financial ROI might not be any different, but, assuming that you can give your child a good experience without becoming homeless, why base a decision like that on financial ROI?

But, on the other hand: If a family goes through the Harvard financial aid appeals process, and sending a kid to Harvard would force the family to take out huge PLUS loans, or wreck the college plans for a sibling, then the family should choose UVa. If sending a kid to Harvard isn’t really possible, it’s not possible, and that’s life. A kid sophisticated enough to get into Harvard should be able to handle the concept that you can’t always get what you want.

I think this is different for different people and not a given at all.

My neighbor went to Harvard and she actually avoids talking about it. She feels that people make assumptions based on hearing that she went to Harvard. Or there can be snarky comments like ‘You went to Harvard, but you can’t figure out how to program this software, etc’.

Going to Harvard likely comes with its own baggage and it depends on what your kids wants.

But going to Harvard just so your mom can tell people about it seems slight weird to me!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard. Easiest choice in the world.

No it isn’t, especially if an MBA is in the cards.

The kid doesn't need an MBA if they study Econ at Harvard undergrad and want to go into business/Wall Street/consulting. No need to get an MBA, just keep moving up the ladder in their given industry.

Leaving the workforce for a 2 year MBA is literally a $600K immediate hit to net worth ($250K for MBA tuition + expenses, plus $350K for lost wages + benefits).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Top 2% of the roughly 3000 colleges in the country seems exceptionally strong to me.

Anonymous wrote:Harvard. Easiest choice in the world.

No it isn’t, especially if an MBA is in the cards.

Harvard. Easiest choice in the world.

I actually had this same choice and ended up choosing Duke. It was the wrong decision looking back. I’d advise your child to go where he or she has the best shot at happiness and making friends. Your child is obviously talented and smart and will have a great career - prioritize his or her happiness and the rest will fall into place.

Anonymous wrote:In my view, Harvard will top UVA - Jefferson Scholarship for immediate attention and credit. You will just have to assess how much that is worth given the cost differential. The Jefferson Scholarship (and other similar scholarships at other universities) are intended to attract students who would otherwise go to Ivy League types of schools.

The flip side to this argument is that at Harvard and other Ivy pluses, it's not unusual to see students who chose Harvard/Ivie pluses over full rides elsewhere.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

In other words, you don't know. Not a good way to make decisions.

I do know. My DD was an Econ major and went to Wall Street. I gave you the link to the ranking of UVA's Econ program, which is what you asked for

You need to read more carefully. I asked you to, without looking it up, name the criteria those rankings use. Millions of people (you included apparently) use rankings without even understanding how they were generated. Again, it's a poor way to make decisions.

You aren’t worth the time to respond to. Go take your need to split hairs and argue somewhere else.

Just trying to help. But okay.

Please. You’re not trying to help anyone.

You're mistaken. I am trying to help, and I'm not splitting hairs. The criteria that are used to create rankings matter. Just taking someone's word for it that anything is better than another thing without knowing how they arrived at that conclusion is a poor way to make decisions. When I see millions of people using a flawed method of making important decisions, I'm motivated to help them understand the mistake they're making.

Given the fact that you're not seeing this, though, I'll admit that I apparently need to work on my delivery.

DP. Most people don't have the means to decide on their own how good each college's economics or biology or CS....department it. They therefore look at available rankings, which, even if imperfect, is likely better than just picking a school out of a hat. I look at as many as I can find to get some idea of a program's quality from a broad range of sources. You lecturing people essentially how dumb they are is condescending and unhelpful.

Thank you for pointing out that it's coming across as lecturing people about how dumb they are. I need to choose my words better. My intent is to point out that rankings are driven by the criteria used by their creators, and that presenting them as absolute fact on these message boards makes the assumption that those criteria are what's most important for everyone.

The original post that got me started was this: "The Econ department [at UVa] is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors." This was presented in response to the statement (not made by me) that "UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department", the implication being that this ranking definitively shows that UVa's econ department is not exceptionally strong. I was hoping to get the poster (you?) to realize that the 'evidence' they were presenting had underlying assumptions that might not be useful for everyone's needs. I apologize that the manner in which I did this came across as condescending. I will work on that.

I made this decision 25 years ago, but for the woodruff scholarship at Emory. I went to Emory, then an ivy for grad school. Either way they will be fun, but let them make the decision, including deciding together how the $$ saved will be used.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

In other words, you don't know. Not a good way to make decisions.

I do know. My DD was an Econ major and went to Wall Street. I gave you the link to the ranking of UVA's Econ program, which is what you asked for

You need to read more carefully. I asked you to, without looking it up, name the criteria those rankings use. Millions of people (you included apparently) use rankings without even understanding how they were generated. Again, it's a poor way to make decisions.

You aren’t worth the time to respond to. Go take your need to split hairs and argue somewhere else.

Just trying to help. But okay.

Please. You’re not trying to help anyone.

You're mistaken. I am trying to help, and I'm not splitting hairs. The criteria that are used to create rankings matter. Just taking someone's word for it that anything is better than another thing without knowing how they arrived at that conclusion is a poor way to make decisions. When I see millions of people using a flawed method of making important decisions, I'm motivated to help them understand the mistake they're making.

Given the fact that you're not seeing this, though, I'll admit that I apparently need to work on my delivery.

DP. Most people don't have the means to decide on their own how good each college's economics or biology or CS....department it. They therefore look at available rankings, which, even if imperfect, is likely better than just picking a school out of a hat. I look at as many as I can find to get some idea of a program's quality from a broad range of sources. You lecturing people essentially how dumb they are is condescending and unhelpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

In other words, you don't know. Not a good way to make decisions.

I do know. My DD was an Econ major and went to Wall Street. I gave you the link to the ranking of UVA's Econ program, which is what you asked for

You need to read more carefully. I asked you to, without looking it up, name the criteria those rankings use. Millions of people (you included apparently) use rankings without even understanding how they were generated. Again, it's a poor way to make decisions.

You aren’t worth the time to respond to. Go take your need to split hairs and argue somewhere else.

Just trying to help. But okay.

Please. You’re not trying to help anyone.

You're mistaken. I am trying to help, and I'm not splitting hairs. The criteria that are used to create rankings matter. Just taking someone's word for it that anything is better than another thing without knowing how they arrived at that conclusion is a poor way to make decisions. When I see millions of people using a flawed method of making important decisions, I'm motivated to help them understand the mistake they're making.

Given the fact that you're not seeing this, though, I'll admit that I apparently need to work on my delivery.

Anonymous wrote:This is a gut decision. Your DC makes it. You have the money. You said either was possible.

If I were the parent, and I had the money, I’d lean toward Harvard but leave the decision to my child.

The quality of the classroom education would be similar.

The overall level of fun would be similar.

But you only live once, and it’s simply really fun to be able to say you or your child went to Harvard, and I think kids who go to Harvard have a chance to experience amazing things most other people will never experience.

The financial ROI might not be any different, but, assuming that you can give your child a good experience without becoming homeless, why base a decision like that on financial ROI?

But, on the other hand: If a family goes through the Harvard financial aid appeals process, and sending a kid to Harvard would force the family to take out huge PLUS loans, or wreck the college plans for a sibling, then the family should choose UVa. If sending a kid to Harvard isn’t really possible, it’s not possible, and that’s life. A kid sophisticated enough to get into Harvard should be able to handle the concept that you can’t always get what you want.

Anonymous wrote:This is a gut decision. Your DC makes it. You have the money. You said either was possible.

+1