Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are misinformed. While there are gender gaps in many areas of life, abortion and workforce participation are not among the top isssues. Abortion has been legal and unrestricted in Russia since 1920. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia Russian women are more conservative (believe it or not, I know it goes against the stereotype) in their attitudes towards women having casual sex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Russia

I am not surprised about all the stereotypes given the way Russians are portrayed in the media, but you have to take with a grain of salt.

Another cliche to be taken with a grain of salt is a myth of Russian alcoholism. Every existing study puts alcohol consumption in Russia in the teen number worldwide - behind Germany, Ireland, Spain and even Luxembourg.

What study shows that? Every study I've seen shows Russia has a high rate of alcoholism.

Here is World Population Review:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcohol-consumption-by-country . Russia is not even in the top ten.

Here is World Health Organization. Russia is #17. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

That's number of liters per year, not amount of drinks per drinking session.

The Spanish and French have a glass of wine with meals so the overall liters per person is quite high. The Russians drink hardcore when they drink, but don't necessarily do it every day.

But look at average life expectancy for males in Russian vs Spain. Russia it's 68.24 years, Spain it's 80.9. Alcoholism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Up until 10 years ago it made sense for a lot of classy educated beautiful women from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics to marry into the west. Now, not so much. The economies have developed and they have much easier access to foreign countries through visas. There are still opportunities for 40 year old guys to marry well particularly if they are willing to marry someone who already has a child/divorced. But anyone older than that will have a lot more trouble. Single beautiful women in those countries have a lot of options. There are plenty of men. However, men age and die much more quickly due to alcoholism and other issues so there is definitely a gender imbalance over age 50. Not so much at younger ages.

'Their economies have developed'
-says who?

Let's see , which of these eastern European countries have flourishing economies ? Not Russia, not Ukraine, not Bielorussia .most European countries not part of the eruppean union have terrible economies .

They are good enough to have a comfortable life, especially in urban centers. I mean SOMEONE is keeping afloat the mortgage market in Moscow and St. Petersburg. SOMEONE is keeping vacation operators in Turkey, Egypt and Italy in business.

Anonymous wrote: Here's an idea: why don't we let people marry who they want ? If a growing number of white men head to Eastern Europe to find spouses for whatever reasons, I see no problem with that. However , this discussion strikes at the core of a facet of men that a lot of white American women are in denial about ; most wealthy could not care less whether a woman is educated or not , that's the reality .

The reality is that most wealthy and UMC men opt for a woman from similar circles and background. They may not care about comparable levels of ambition but they very much care about similar levels of education. Peruse the NYT engagement announcement pages for proof.

Anonymous wrote: I don't doubt that there are gender stereotypes that motivate many of these men to head east . You could even add Asian women to the discussion . The truth is , for a growing number of white men in this country , white women have become too uppity for them. Most white men in this country only pay lip service to things like gender equality but deep down they don't believe in it or outright resent it .

Expectations around gender roles in EE are still very high despite claims to the contrary . Russian women have it particularly worse given the dire economic prospects and absurdly high alcoholism rate , to say nothing of the fact that the state literally abandons women to themselves with no means of collecting things like child support as is the case in the United states . A college educated , upwardly mobile white man is therefore a catch in ways that the vast majority of men in that part of the world aren't. From the outset , it looks like a win-win situation, the American gets an obedient, dutiful, and non challenging wife (or so he thinks ) and the eastern European woman gets to flee poverty and its attendant bleak prospects and even start a family of her own .

Russia's alcohol consumption rate is below Portugal, Ireland and Luxembourg yet I don't see you shedding tears for the poor womenfolk of Lisbon or Cork County.

Russia's method of child support collection is the same as the U.S.: with the court order, wages are garnished at the source.

Most college educated, upwardly mobile EE women marry a college educated, upwardly mobile EE men..

Anonymous wrote:Up until 10 years ago it made sense for a lot of classy educated beautiful women from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics to marry into the west. Now, not so much. The economies have developed and they have much easier access to foreign countries through visas. There are still opportunities for 40 year old guys to marry well particularly if they are willing to marry someone who already has a child/divorced. But anyone older than that will have a lot more trouble. Single beautiful women in those countries have a lot of options. There are plenty of men. However, men age and die much more quickly due to alcoholism and other issues so there is definitely a gender imbalance over age 50. Not so much at younger ages.

'Their economies have developed'
-says who?

Let's see , which of these eastern European countries have flourishing economies ? Not Russia, not Ukraine, not Bielorussia .most European countries not part of the eruppean union have terrible economies .

Here's an idea: why don't we let people marry who they want ? If a growing number of white men head to Eastern Europe to find spouses for whatever reasons, I see no problem with that. However , this discussion strikes at the core of a facet of men that a lot of white American women are in denial about ; most wealthy could not care less whether a woman is educated or not , that's the reality .

I don't doubt that there are gender stereotypes that motivate many of these men to head east . You could even add Asian women to the discussion . The truth is , for a growing number of white men in this country , white women have become too uppity for them. Most white men in this country only pay lip service to things like gender equality but deep down they don't believe in it or outright resent it .

Expectations around gender roles in EE are still very high despite claims to the contrary . Russian women have it particularly worse given the dire economic prospects and absurdly high alcoholism rate , to say nothing of the fact that the state literally abandons women to themselves with no means of collecting things like child support as is the case in the United states . A college educated , upwardly mobile white man is therefore a catch in ways that the vast majority of men in that part of the world aren't. From the outset , it looks like a win-win situation, the American gets an obedient, dutiful, and non challenging wife (or so he thinks ) and the eastern European woman gets to flee poverty and its attendant bleak prospects and even start a family of her own .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They want a housekeeper that they can have sex with on demand.

Really? You’re telling me a wealthy doctor needs to marry a poor foreign woman to afford house cleaning??? Doesn’t sound like someone even remotely well off…

Omg no.
Many women in eastern europe are raised with the clear understanding that the man is superior. And everything they do is catering to him and with a haply attitude. Not like a paid housekeeper. But making all his favorite foods, cleaning daily, ironing clothes, hot breakfast on table, greeting with a smile and hair done and dinner ready when he is home. Never asking for any household help. Seriously. Im russian but not raised like that. My cousins were shocked that my husband washed dishes and changes diapers. It didn't occur to them to even see if their husbands would do any of that.

Why raise daughters to have that status? That makes no sense to me as a mom of daughters. Mine will have their own money and power if I raise them to do nothing else. The partners they choose will be partners, not employers of my daughters as domestic servants.

I felt a lot of pressure from my family in Moscow to get married by age 25. My mom thought sleeping or co-habilitation was a sin, and that I just HAD to give her grandchild and get married.
Generally you get married younger in Eastern Europe, and highly educated women in Moscow are under a lot of pressure to marry by 25 or so. I declined a full scholarship from Columbia Law school when I got married to my American husband, whom I met online and only dated for a year. I do believe if I had moved to NY on scholarship as a young professional, I would have done way better in life. But I only realized it after living in the US for many years. My marriage was actually a setback and I should have never married him.

Wow, you must have really been in love and under tremendous emotional pressure to turn down Columbia. I am sorry that it didn't work out and I hope you are in a good situation now. Signed, granddaughter of a very traditional, Tito-loving, former Yugoslavian baka

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are misinformed. While there are gender gaps in many areas of life, abortion and workforce participation are not among the top isssues. Abortion has been legal and unrestricted in Russia since 1920. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia Russian women are more conservative (believe it or not, I know it goes against the stereotype) in their attitudes towards women having casual sex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Russia

I am not surprised about all the stereotypes given the way Russians are portrayed in the media, but you have to take with a grain of salt.

Another cliche to be taken with a grain of salt is a myth of Russian alcoholism. Every existing study puts alcohol consumption in Russia in the teen number worldwide - behind Germany, Ireland, Spain and even Luxembourg.

What study shows that? Every study I've seen shows Russia has a high rate of alcoholism.

Here is World Population Review:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcohol-consumption-by-country . Russia is not even in the top ten.

Here is World Health Organization. Russia is #17. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

Anonymous wrote:

American women who have options don't generally hold onto traditional gender roles. I mean.. who would want to work and take care of the kids/house and the man? That's a lot of work and stress. Rich men don't have to do any of that, nor do they really want to. Hence, they seek out women who want those traditional roles, ie, not highly educate American women.

No one who is rich needs to sweep their own floors. Affluent households outsource domestic labor.

DCUM is replete with "thankfully, I don't have to work" types.

Rich men, like all men, practice assortative mating. Most men born rich will be paired with women of similar background. Most men who got rich by themselves will be married to their first wives. A minority will upgrade to a younger, hotter model. A tiny, tiny minority will look for a "mail order" option.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are misinformed. While there are gender gaps in many areas of life, abortion and workforce participation are not among the top isssues. Abortion has been legal and unrestricted in Russia since 1920. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia Russian women are more conservative (believe it or not, I know it goes against the stereotype) in their attitudes towards women having casual sex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Russia

I am not surprised about all the stereotypes given the way Russians are portrayed in the media, but you have to take with a grain of salt.

Another cliche to be taken with a grain of salt is a myth of Russian alcoholism. Every existing study puts alcohol consumption in Russia in the teen number worldwide - behind Germany, Ireland, Spain and even Luxembourg.

What study shows that? Every study I've seen shows Russia has a high rate of alcoholism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
DP.. and therein lies the rub.

These women are educated, smart, but they have limited opportunities in those countries. I don't blame them for marrying rich old guys.

Culturally, though, EE women are still more conservative and hold more traditional values compared to the US. Maybe that's part of their appeal to those men.

This is just silly.

An overwhelming majority of educated women in Russia will marry similarly situated Russian men. Urban centers in Russia have plenty of opportunity for the educated women.

EE women are not at all "more conservative" and certainly not in the way conservatism is interpreted in the US. I'll speak of Russia/FSU space since I know it best. The only "traditional values" FSU women embrace are that men should make more money and pay for more stuff, and for what they will be expected to do less at home. Otherwise:

- we embrace premarital sex and start early
- we cohabitate without marriage readily
- we are not especially religious
- we have abortions without much trepidation
- we have one or two children, and rarely more
- we culturally show more skin than American women

I've lived in the US for over twenty years and have observed every conceivable configuration of the FSU woman/American man pairing. One bit of advice I always share with whoever asks is that Russian (or really, any other FSU space) women who are overly critical of "Russian men" are not good candidates and should be rejected outright. No one dumping on their family - fathers, brothers, sons - is worth a second look.

Of course. Bolded is true for every country.

And you have to be kidding.

Americans embrace premarital sex.
Americans cohabitate at a high rate, too
Americans are only "religious" in name. They actually don't practice it, and church attendance is dying out. But I wasn't referring to religious conservatism.
American white women birth rate is 1.8; Black 2.1, Hispanic 2.4, Asian 1.8
Showing more skin .. could be why American men like it, but that's not the "culture" I meant.

The culture I meant was about the male/female dymanic, which you even stated is more traditional in Russia. Most men, especially the rich, want a "traditional" relationship where the women take care of the home, and the men work and bring home the bacon. The men don't want to take care of children, the home, etc.. That's a woman's role, which again, you admit to.

American women who have options don't generally hold onto traditional gender roles. I mean.. who would want to work and take care of the kids/house and the man? That's a lot of work and stress. Rich men don't have to do any of that, nor do they really want to. Hence, they seek out women who want those traditional roles, ie, not highly educate American women.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
DP.. and therein lies the rub.

These women are educated, smart, but they have limited opportunities in those countries. I don't blame them for marrying rich old guys.

Culturally, though, EE women are still more conservative and hold more traditional values compared to the US. Maybe that's part of their appeal to those men.

This is just silly.

An overwhelming majority of educated women in Russia will marry similarly situated Russian men. Urban centers in Russia have plenty of opportunity for the educated women.

EE women are not at all "more conservative" and certainly not in the way conservatism is interpreted in the US. I'll speak of Russia/FSU space since I know it best. The only "traditional values" FSU women embrace are that men should make more money and pay for more stuff, and for what they will be expected to do less at home. Otherwise:

- we embrace premarital sex and start early
- we cohabitate without marriage readily
- we are not especially religious
- we have abortions without much trepidation
- we have one or two children, and rarely more
- we culturally show more skin than American women

I've lived in the US for over twenty years and have observed every conceivable configuration of the FSU woman/American man pairing. One bit of advice I always share with whoever asks is that Russian (or really, any other FSU space) women who are overly critical of "Russian men" are not good candidates and should be rejected outright. No one dumping on their family - fathers, brothers, sons - is worth a second look.

This was enlightening. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:
You are misinformed. While there are gender gaps in many areas of life, abortion and workforce participation are not among the top isssues. Abortion has been legal and unrestricted in Russia since 1920. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia Russian women are more conservative (believe it or not, I know it goes against the stereotype) in their attitudes towards women having casual sex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Russia

I am not surprised about all the stereotypes given the way Russians are portrayed in the media, but you have to take with a grain of salt.

Another cliche to be taken with a grain of salt is a myth of Russian alcoholism. Every existing study puts alcohol consumption in Russia in the teen number worldwide - behind Germany, Ireland, Spain and even Luxembourg.

Anonymous wrote:I pity the fool who thinks Russian women are submissive. They’ll eat your lunch.

It's a fetish.

Anonymous wrote:
DP.. and therein lies the rub.

These women are educated, smart, but they have limited opportunities in those countries. I don't blame them for marrying rich old guys.

Culturally, though, EE women are still more conservative and hold more traditional values compared to the US. Maybe that's part of their appeal to those men.

This is just silly.

An overwhelming majority of educated women in Russia will marry similarly situated Russian men. Urban centers in Russia have plenty of opportunity for the educated women.

EE women are not at all "more conservative" and certainly not in the way conservatism is interpreted in the US. I'll speak of Russia/FSU space since I know it best. The only "traditional values" FSU women embrace are that men should make more money and pay for more stuff, and for what they will be expected to do less at home. Otherwise:

- we embrace premarital sex and start early
- we cohabitate without marriage readily
- we are not especially religious
- we have abortions without much trepidation
- we have one or two children, and rarely more
- we culturally show more skin than American women

I've lived in the US for over twenty years and have observed every conceivable configuration of the FSU woman/American man pairing. One bit of advice I always share with whoever asks is that Russian (or really, any other FSU space) women who are overly critical of "Russian men" are not good candidates and should be rejected outright. No one dumping on their family - fathers, brothers, sons - is worth a second look.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m no American patriot but it’s surprising to me to hear people say that Eastern European women and women in other patriarchal cultures are a good standard to hold yourself to. Yay for you if you like looking hot (I definitely do sometimes) but the reason that Russian women are expected to look beautiful is because of sexist attitudes. I think I read that in Russia, most young women believe that attractiveness is the best quality for a woman to have and older women believe that being a good homemaker is the best quality for a woman to have. Domestic violence that doesn’t cause major injury is legal in Russia. Abortion is heavily restricted, they just barely lifted restrictions on women having certain jobs, and Putin makes rape jokes. And then people are saying “hey you frumpy American women, these Russian woman can look hot, so should you.” What???

I’m happy to live in a place where women are, generally speaking, considered their own humans and not just an adornment for men. (And I applaud Russian feminists who are working hard to change things)

You think you read that? What a load of crap! If anything, this country should worry about abortions and job equality way more that Russia does.

Signed,
-A Russian female with a PhD.

It was in the Moscow times.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/03/07/whos-to-blame-for-gender-stereotypes-in-russia-a64744

Do you know that Russia is the most highly educated country in the world? 63% of young people are college educated. In US, only 37% of the entire population (all ages) is college educated. 54.58 percent of Russian women are employed vs. 46.8 in US - not a Russian.

DP.. and therein lies the rub.

These women are educated, smart, but they have limited opportunities in those countries. I don't blame them for marrying rich old guys.

Culturally, though, EE women are still more conservative and hold more traditional values compared to the US. Maybe that's part of their appeal to those men.

Not true; I find American women much more traditional and conservative, hence why the early childhood education places are such an issue here, as most assume women would SAH after having kids. EE has a much higher % of kids born outside the marriage - Slovenia almost 60%, Czech republic 49%, Bulgaria 59%. In US, the rate is only 40% and UMC people raise their eyebrows at this anyway. Also, there is much less mass hysteria all over Europe about fidelity, like it is here. There is also no stigma associated with abortions, and Russian women have 4 times more abortions than Americans. My mom had several and it was NBD. I also Bf-ed my kids until they were 4 years old and my childhood friend until hers was 5 years old and nobody had a panic attack or freaked out looking at lactating breasts in public. It's perfectly appropriate to go topless at the beach and nobody blinks an eye. Try this in the US. IMO, knowing both cultures, I think Americans are a repressed mess who have very regressive and conservative ideas about almost everything. I haven't met a woman who cannot orgasm from PIV until I came here to US.