Anonymous wrote:We got married young. Now at 50, our kids are out of the house, so we can travel, bang, etc as much as we want. I wouldn’t trade that for the chance of having sex with others in my 20s. Being 50 with a 13 year old would suck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see nothing wrong with getting married early - and don't understand the people who say that twenty year olds are supposed to just work and travel. Why can't married twenty year olds work and travel? DH and I started dating when I was 20, married at 24, but held off on having kids until later - we worked on our careers and housing and traveled all over the world before we had our children. We had a blast.

Good for you and no where has anyone said you can't travel while young and married. Haven't you heard the expression "foot loose and fancy free?" This is something I am encouraging my kids to do..learn to live with yourself before you have to consider your spouse's feelings and desires. You make all the decisions yourself.. ( within reason, of course)

now do you get it?

Yes I get it - but I also watched a whole lot of my friends do the "foot loose and fancy free" thing in their twenties remain single into their 30s and then freak out and settle for the wrong person in order to have a family and I am now watching 3 of them have very ugly divorces. If you find your person when you are young, you shouldn't throw away that opportunity in the interest of being self-centered and "free". And, actually, the fact that we weren't so set in our individual ways maybe made it easier for my DH and I to grow and mature TOGETHER.

Get it?

This.

I have watched so many friends and family struggle with infertility in their 30s; I plan on encouraging my daughter to get married when she finds the right person (and not wait around and “discover” herself whatever the F that means).

Why is "discover" put in quotes and seen as a negative? Honestly asking. What if your daughter doesn't want kids? And I don't know what you definition of discovering yourself but to me but to me it means trying new jobs, living in different cities, learning new things without yourself the responsibility of making someone else happy. So many women cut short their dreams for their spouse.

My daughter can do whatever she wants but I think all of the things you list as part of “discovering yourself” are 1. totally possible to do while married at the least and 2. Not really valuable in becoming a kind, mature person. I got married at 23 and managed to complete law school and have a good career while married and having children. It’s not like being married and having children prevents you from growing and learning about yourself; that just seems like a very immature perspective on life.

Again you are just adhering to a life script. PP is talking about ways in which one may want to differ.

Pretending that your twenties is for living out “Sex and The City” with less attractive chars is just as much of a life script as any other, pp.

If that is what it ends up being, so be it. But it still gives you a baseline.

I was however also referring to discovery like changing careers, moving states/countries, deep friendships, maybe adopting/fostering kids, pets, starting your own nest egg, developing an independent taste in food, fashion, decor. Cementing your life long values, hobbies and personality.

Maybe doable but definitely harder with a spouse and kids.

Is it? What exactly is your family doing to you, pp? I challenge this premise that you just die mentally when you have kids. I have become a much better person since I had kids across the board. I’ve made deep friends, refined my taste, discovered new things that I love, etc. Like what is this mommy martyr nonsense.

You are restricted in your options of what you can do with kids at home. You dont need to be a mommy martyr and die mentally but you are making sacrifices and curbing your potential.

You might have become a better person with kids, yes they bring love and joy, and as you age you refine your tastes and grow professionally etc etc.

But taking a few years to experience things for yourself with no one else to worry about is important. Especially if things go south later in life and you need to stand up for yourself (and your future kids) It builds clarity and self reliance.

I simply don’t see the bolded occurring in real life. I see my friends who waited to have children and I love them, but I’m not impressed that they have more clarity or self reliance. In fact, a lot of them emotionally collapsed in the pandemic.

Dealing with challenges, struggling, and failing is what builds you as a person. Not having sexy fun in your 20s.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's definitely a thing, but who cares about someone else's opinion of your niece decision. People say all sorts of rude things...try your best to ignore it. Hubby and I got the same reaction when we got engaged. In fact, the jeweler didn't want to sell us an engagement ring. Met at 20/21, engaged at 22/23, married at 25/26, currently 36/37 happy with no regrets. Now we hear nasty remarks because we don't have kids at our age. People are insensitive jerks, but I don't care if my life meets their expectations.

Np. Sometimes people are just making conversation. Most people really don't care if you have kids or not. Not talking about your parents or your spouse's patents.

Thankfully our parents are on board. You'd be surprised about some acquaintances and strangers react. I've been told I'm selfish, immature, that I will regret it, asked how my husband's feeling that I'm not willing to give him children, etc. You are right that normal people don't care, but I can promise you a lot of people are nuts and not hiding it well.

Anonymous wrote:If you’re both mature enough to land jobs in big tech after a successful undergraduate education, you have the maturity to figure out if you want to marry

My advice would be very different if you were an aimless 22 year-old who dropped out of community college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's definitely a thing, but who cares about someone else's opinion of your niece decision. People say all sorts of rude things...try your best to ignore it. Hubby and I got the same reaction when we got engaged. In fact, the jeweler didn't want to sell us an engagement ring. Met at 20/21, engaged at 22/23, married at 25/26, currently 36/37 happy with no regrets. Now we hear nasty remarks because we don't have kids at our age. People are insensitive jerks, but I don't care if my life meets their expectations.

Np. Sometimes people are just making conversation. Most people really don't care if you have kids or not. Not talking about your parents or your spouse's patents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see nothing wrong with getting married early - and don't understand the people who say that twenty year olds are supposed to just work and travel. Why can't married twenty year olds work and travel? DH and I started dating when I was 20, married at 24, but held off on having kids until later - we worked on our careers and housing and traveled all over the world before we had our children. We had a blast.

Good for you and no where has anyone said you can't travel while young and married. Haven't you heard the expression "foot loose and fancy free?" This is something I am encouraging my kids to do..learn to live with yourself before you have to consider your spouse's feelings and desires. You make all the decisions yourself.. ( within reason, of course)

now do you get it?

Yes I get it - but I also watched a whole lot of my friends do the "foot loose and fancy free" thing in their twenties remain single into their 30s and then freak out and settle for the wrong person in order to have a family and I am now watching 3 of them have very ugly divorces. If you find your person when you are young, you shouldn't throw away that opportunity in the interest of being self-centered and "free". And, actually, the fact that we weren't so set in our individual ways maybe made it easier for my DH and I to grow and mature TOGETHER.

Get it?

This.

I have watched so many friends and family struggle with infertility in their 30s; I plan on encouraging my daughter to get married when she finds the right person (and not wait around and “discover” herself whatever the F that means).

Why is "discover" put in quotes and seen as a negative? Honestly asking. What if your daughter doesn't want kids? And I don't know what you definition of discovering yourself but to me but to me it means trying new jobs, living in different cities, learning new things without yourself the responsibility of making someone else happy. So many women cut short their dreams for their spouse.

My daughter can do whatever she wants but I think all of the things you list as part of “discovering yourself” are 1. totally possible to do while married at the least and 2. Not really valuable in becoming a kind, mature person. I got married at 23 and managed to complete law school and have a good career while married and having children. It’s not like being married and having children prevents you from growing and learning about yourself; that just seems like a very immature perspective on life.

Again you are just adhering to a life script. PP is talking about ways in which one may want to differ.

Pretending that your twenties is for living out “Sex and The City” with less attractive chars is just as much of a life script as any other, pp.

If that is what it ends up being, so be it. But it still gives you a baseline.

I was however also referring to discovery like changing careers, moving states/countries, deep friendships, maybe adopting/fostering kids, pets, starting your own nest egg, developing an independent taste in food, fashion, decor. Cementing your life long values, hobbies and personality.

Maybe doable but definitely harder with a spouse and kids.

Is it? What exactly is your family doing to you, pp? I challenge this premise that you just die mentally when you have kids. I have become a much better person since I had kids across the board. I’ve made deep friends, refined my taste, discovered new things that I love, etc. Like what is this mommy martyr nonsense.

You are restricted in your options of what you can do with kids at home. You dont need to be a mommy martyr and die mentally but you are making sacrifices and curbing your potential.

You might have become a better person with kids, yes they bring love and joy, and as you age you refine your tastes and grow professionally etc etc.

But taking a few years to experience things for yourself with no one else to worry about is important. Especially if things go south later in life and you need to stand up for yourself (and your future kids) It builds clarity and self reliance.

I simply don’t see the bolded occurring in real life. I see my friends who waited to have children and I love them, but I’m not impressed that they have more clarity or self reliance. In fact, a lot of them emotionally collapsed in the pandemic.

Dealing with challenges, struggling, and failing is what builds you as a person. Not having sexy fun in your 20s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see nothing wrong with getting married early - and don't understand the people who say that twenty year olds are supposed to just work and travel. Why can't married twenty year olds work and travel? DH and I started dating when I was 20, married at 24, but held off on having kids until later - we worked on our careers and housing and traveled all over the world before we had our children. We had a blast.

Good for you and no where has anyone said you can't travel while young and married. Haven't you heard the expression "foot loose and fancy free?" This is something I am encouraging my kids to do..learn to live with yourself before you have to consider your spouse's feelings and desires. You make all the decisions yourself.. ( within reason, of course)

now do you get it?

Yes I get it - but I also watched a whole lot of my friends do the "foot loose and fancy free" thing in their twenties remain single into their 30s and then freak out and settle for the wrong person in order to have a family and I am now watching 3 of them have very ugly divorces. If you find your person when you are young, you shouldn't throw away that opportunity in the interest of being self-centered and "free". And, actually, the fact that we weren't so set in our individual ways maybe made it easier for my DH and I to grow and mature TOGETHER.

Get it?

This.

I have watched so many friends and family struggle with infertility in their 30s; I plan on encouraging my daughter to get married when she finds the right person (and not wait around and “discover” herself whatever the F that means).

Why is "discover" put in quotes and seen as a negative? Honestly asking. What if your daughter doesn't want kids? And I don't know what you definition of discovering yourself but to me but to me it means trying new jobs, living in different cities, learning new things without yourself the responsibility of making someone else happy. So many women cut short their dreams for their spouse.

My daughter can do whatever she wants but I think all of the things you list as part of “discovering yourself” are 1. totally possible to do while married at the least and 2. Not really valuable in becoming a kind, mature person. I got married at 23 and managed to complete law school and have a good career while married and having children. It’s not like being married and having children prevents you from growing and learning about yourself; that just seems like a very immature perspective on life.

Again you are just adhering to a life script. PP is talking about ways in which one may want to differ.

Pretending that your twenties is for living out “Sex and The City” with less attractive chars is just as much of a life script as any other, pp.

If that is what it ends up being, so be it. But it still gives you a baseline.

I was however also referring to discovery like changing careers, moving states/countries, deep friendships, maybe adopting/fostering kids, pets, starting your own nest egg, developing an independent taste in food, fashion, decor. Cementing your life long values, hobbies and personality.

Maybe doable but definitely harder with a spouse and kids.

Is it? What exactly is your family doing to you, pp? I challenge this premise that you just die mentally when you have kids. I have become a much better person since I had kids across the board. I’ve made deep friends, refined my taste, discovered new things that I love, etc. Like what is this mommy martyr nonsense.

You are restricted in your options of what you can do with kids at home. You dont need to be a mommy martyr and die mentally but you are making sacrifices and curbing your potential.

You might have become a better person with kids, yes they bring love and joy, and as you age you refine your tastes and grow professionally etc etc.

But taking a few years to experience things for yourself with no one else to worry about is important. Especially if things go south later in life and you need to stand up for yourself (and your future kids) It builds clarity and self reliance.

Anonymous wrote:My niece got engaged at 22 to her college boyfriend. They’ve been together since 2 years and known each other for 4 years. He is 22 as well and both are working full time in a big tech company. They feel like they are getting shammed from not only family and friends but even strangers for getting engaged and planning to marry in a year. Is this a thing now like quite shamming of people staying single ir marrying late used to be?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is a thing. Especially among people who are not very religious and who are UMC, well educated and living in major cities. Nowadays, there is often the assumption that young people would want to grow their careers and experience independence before getting married.

This.

I think most people would think this couple was kind of pathetic.

Pathetic because they have degrees, stable jobs, good income, no debt and loving partners compared to majority of struggling singles with low income, high debt and dating equal losers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are adults. Good for them for being decisive. I wouldn't rule out some jealously that they have their sheet together and are sealing the deal. Older women have been giving younger women a lot of bad advice for decades, encouraging them to make their same mistakes. What's the hurry, hold out until 30-plus. What they don't tell them is that finding a mate gets harder after 30. Good for bride-to-be for not taking the bait!

You forget that there are older men that also counsel against early marriage. Fathers don’t want to see their adult children compromise their careers and mental health by taking on early financial and personal commitments.

Their advice is great for cultures where men are the bread winners and family planning is forbidden sin. If women is equal partner, neither has debt and birth control is available, it’s not a hindrance in building a career or nest egg.

Not so. My father counseled his three daughters and son to wait and develop independence in our twenties. We all did and have happy marriages and successful careers.

People in original post are already independent so this point is moot for them.

But are they? They can’t even be a year out from graduating undergrad.
Maybe they just graduated this dec. They have been likely working their new tech jobs for mere weeks. Don’t own a house, still have career development, additional education to pursue, etc. If you want to break from middle class, one or both of you likely needs at least a graduate degree. They are barely off the payroll of Bank of Dad..or maybe they aren’t yet

Plus earning a salary is not the only kund of independence. They need to discover themselves.

Discovering is half the reason for people with high debt, low income and mental health issues.

Anonymous wrote:Their brains haven’t even finished developing yet. I would not support my adult kids getting married or engaged before 25.