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Anonymous wrote:Listen - you need to understand that we live in a society where there is a balance between supply and demand. Teachers are in serious demand and in low supply. The counties need to keep them as happy as possible and they don’t have any money to give them decent pay increases. So they give them time off. We had huge turnover at my kids school over the last 1 1/2 years. I will gladly take a couple days off rather than go back to online or have 50 kids in a class. If you want to keep your kids in school, take care of your teachers. Seriously.

Then we really, really need to adapt the European model of year round school. 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

Let’s go already.

That would be a nightmare for MS and HS where kids work, swim team and other activities.

That would be a nightmare for working parents to have to constantly arrange child care.

And yet Europe somehow manages! It boggles the mind.

Did you know that Europe is a continent with lots of different countries and each country has its own education system? Of the European countries I'm familiar with, none of them have this schedule. Could you be a little more specific about which countries do this?

And European countries are the size of the city of New York. Not the state, but the city. Trying to compare how Europe does anything to most places in the US is ludicrous simply because of the scale of US cities and states to European country size.

Anonymous wrote:Subs should go towards the traveling nurses model. Pay them even more than the regular teachers. Travel nurses are paid a HUGE premium.

It’s a question of budget, I think.

Subs should go towards the traveling nurses model. Pay them even more than the regular teachers. Travel nurses are paid a HUGE premium.

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Anonymous wrote:Listen - you need to understand that we live in a society where there is a balance between supply and demand. Teachers are in serious demand and in low supply. The counties need to keep them as happy as possible and they don’t have any money to give them decent pay increases. So they give them time off. We had huge turnover at my kids school over the last 1 1/2 years. I will gladly take a couple days off rather than go back to online or have 50 kids in a class. If you want to keep your kids in school, take care of your teachers. Seriously.

Then we really, really need to adapt the European model of year round school. 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

Let’s go already.

That would be a nightmare for MS and HS where kids work, swim team and other activities.

That would be a nightmare for working parents to have to constantly arrange child care.

And yet Europe somehow manages! It boggles the mind.

European here. My SIL has 2 months paid vacation and separate sick leave banks (1 month each) for her and her child. She also gets paid time off when the school are closed. We can't manage to pass bare minimum safety requirements for guns ownership.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the point of all this leave comparision?

The teachers I know who are absent from work aren't (haven't been) taking discretionary leave. They are (were): in the hospital, or going to the doctor for an appointment before hernia surgery, or taking their disabled spouse or child to an appointment. Or they are home with a fever. Or home with a sick child -- no telework possible in that case. Or they are under quarantine. Or they just resigned because they couldn't meet their professional responsibilities -- and haven't, unfortunately, yet been replaced.

No one is taking discretionary or vacation leave right now; it isn't being approved and we aren't asking for it. We know it is all hands on deck, because when someone doesn't show up for work our colleagues need to cover for us and students get worse education.

The article was quite literally about teachers asking for discretionary leave around a holiday, in fact so many of them have that schools are bullied into closing instead of just telling teachers no.

So? Let them. How is it any of your business? If a teacher wants to take a day off then they should be able to. It is crazy that people like you are advocating that they should be told "no" when they want or need time off. What they are doing is a 'nice to have' but not 'need to have.' Nothing about teaching is mission critical unless you're one of those parents who insist that you need the childcare. IMO parents in public schools need to face up to the reality that if you need the childcare then hire childcare. Frankly, people like you are why we send our kids to private schools. Not only do our kids receive a better education but the teachers are treated more humanely, and that is something we value in our family.

Like any other workplace, not everyone can all take off at the same time. This is not new. Some kids are so far behind due to covid, not sure how closing extra random days benefits those kids that are behind. We were in private school last year and I miss it so much. I’m so disappointed by public school.

You get what you pay for.

+1

You complain about taxes and then sh1t on your teachers for two years. What did you expect would happen?

First, teachers in the DMV are not underpaid. And second, what evidence do you have that paying teachers more would change the situation. If it's fine to take off whenever, why would that change if pay was more?
Teachers will still have families which you believe are more important than doing what is best for students. Teachers and their families are more important than anything.

Teachers in our area *are* underpaid.
https://www.wric.com/news/education/virginia-d-c-ranked-as-worst-two-places-for-teacher-pay/amp/

They should also have days off (combination of holidays and PTO) to spend with their families.

And the teaching profession and individual teachers should be respected.

You get what you pay for.

They work for 10 months and get several other long breaks.

Did you read the article?

You get what you pay for.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the point of all this leave comparision?

The teachers I know who are absent from work aren't (haven't been) taking discretionary leave. They are (were): in the hospital, or going to the doctor for an appointment before hernia surgery, or taking their disabled spouse or child to an appointment. Or they are home with a fever. Or home with a sick child -- no telework possible in that case. Or they are under quarantine. Or they just resigned because they couldn't meet their professional responsibilities -- and haven't, unfortunately, yet been replaced.

No one is taking discretionary or vacation leave right now; it isn't being approved and we aren't asking for it. We know it is all hands on deck, because when someone doesn't show up for work our colleagues need to cover for us and students get worse education.

The article was quite literally about teachers asking for discretionary leave around a holiday, in fact so many of them have that schools are bullied into closing instead of just telling teachers no.

So? Let them. How is it any of your business? If a teacher wants to take a day off then they should be able to. It is crazy that people like you are advocating that they should be told "no" when they want or need time off. What they are doing is a 'nice to have' but not 'need to have.' Nothing about teaching is mission critical unless you're one of those parents who insist that you need the childcare. IMO parents in public schools need to face up to the reality that if you need the childcare then hire childcare. Frankly, people like you are why we send our kids to private schools. Not only do our kids receive a better education but the teachers are treated more humanely, and that is something we value in our family.

Like any other workplace, not everyone can all take off at the same time. This is not new. Some kids are so far behind due to covid, not sure how closing extra random days benefits those kids that are behind. We were in private school last year and I miss it so much. I’m so disappointed by public school.

You get what you pay for.

+1

You complain about taxes and then sh1t on your teachers for two years. What did you expect would happen?

First, teachers in the DMV are not underpaid. And second, what evidence do you have that paying teachers more would change the situation. If it's fine to take off whenever, why would that change if pay was more?
Teachers will still have families which you believe are more important than doing what is best for students. Teachers and their families are more important than anything.

Teachers in our area *are* underpaid.
https://www.wric.com/news/education/virginia-d-c-ranked-as-worst-two-places-for-teacher-pay/amp/

They should also have days off (combination of holidays and PTO) to spend with their families.

And the teaching profession and individual teachers should be respected.

You get what you pay for.

They work for 10 months and get several other long breaks.

That 10 month work year plus breaks is the compensation we aren't getting. Tax payers would have to add another 20% or so in pay if teachers needed to work a typical 3 weeks of vacation and 5 paid holidays per year like many other jobs. Can tax payers afford that? I don't think so. So we get "paid" instead in vacation time. Yes, teaching pays more than some jobs, less that others. That's normal. Lost of jobs pay more than I make for comparable education levels. Lots pay less.

I am a teacher who has responded previously and I agree that staff shouldn't be allowed to take off right after or before a holiday. I worked for one district in the past, where if you did this, you had to have a doctor's note saying why you couldn't go to work. But yeah, the sub shortage and the teacher shortage is severe. We have principals and other administrators working as subs pretty regularly in my district. There's already talk about what we will cut next contract in order to pay subs more.
Part of the issue, too, is that all the teachers like myself that used to show up and work even with fevers, sore throat, serious body aches, hacking coughs, etc, are no longer allowed to work sick. If I so much as have a runny nose, I have to call in sick and go get a covid test. I'm not allowed in the building to even drop off sub plans. (I leave "emergency plans" in advance that could be followed by anyone with review work.)

Anonymous wrote:New to this thread and haven’t read many of the pages. I will post a separate topic if this is too OT. So, substitute teachers only make $18/hour? Anybody know the rational for not paying them close to what a full time teacher per hour?

Probably because subs only do a piece of the work actual teachers do and often they are not certified. Subs in my building walk in a few minutes before 8 (kids arrive at 8:05) and leave immediately after the kids leave at 2:30. I arrive in my building at 6:30 a.m., stay until 4 or 4:30, bring about 10-20 hours of work home each week and attend evening events. Subs aren't responsible for pretty much anything other than keeping the kids alive.
However, sub pay, in general is pretty low. In my area, they make about $110 a day, no benefits, no retirement and that's before taxes. A few districts near me have started to offer $200 a day and if subs are certified and will agree to work every single day of the year in any classroom in any school, they're paying them more. That's as much as our first year teachers make without the benefits and retirement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen - you need to understand that we live in a society where there is a balance between supply and demand. Teachers are in serious demand and in low supply. The counties need to keep them as happy as possible and they don’t have any money to give them decent pay increases. So they give them time off. We had huge turnover at my kids school over the last 1 1/2 years. I will gladly take a couple days off rather than go back to online or have 50 kids in a class. If you want to keep your kids in school, take care of your teachers. Seriously.

Then we really, really need to adapt the European model of year round school. 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

Let’s go already.

That would be a nightmare for MS and HS where kids work, swim team and other activities.

That would be a nightmare for working parents to have to constantly arrange child care.

And yet Europe somehow manages! It boggles the mind.

Did you know that Europe is a continent with lots of different countries and each country has its own education system? Of the European countries I'm familiar with, none of them have this schedule. Could you be a little more specific about which countries do this?

Anonymous wrote:But then who does the job that you where supposed to do that day ? When I sit at my desk at 9 am there is a backlog of work to do that came in through the night.

How can any business that provides a service to customers just stop needing to provide that service at short notice ? Where are the customers ?

'

Sounds like you're in some form of product fulfillment or customer service. That's tantamount to hourly. Your employer needs to hire enough staff to cover the shortage. You shouldn't be held hostage to your job just because your employer is cheap. The same thing with teachers. If they have the leave time then they should be able to use it when they need to.

But then who does the job that you where supposed to do that day ? When I sit at my desk at 9 am there is a backlog of work to do that came in through the night.

How can any business that provides a service to customers just stop needing to provide that service at short notice ? Where are the customers ?

Anonymous wrote:Most professional jobs do not allow people to just blow off any day they want, their leave needs to be approved.

Baloney. I have never had to do anything other than pop my head in the door and say "Boss, I am taking tomorrow off." I work for a large non-profit. It worked the same when I worked for the Fed. If it is more complicated than that then you are working hourly and of course those rules are different. Hourly employees are treated differently.

In the meantime, get off the backs of teachers. They are doing what you don't want to do, namely they are spending time with your kids. When you care more about your kids than you do about not having your kids at home then come back and talk. The rest of us parents recognize what this is all about - either you are an hourly worker with no leave or you can't stand your kids and need childcare provided by the schools.

Most professional jobs do not allow people to just blow off any day they want, their leave needs to be approved.

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Anonymous wrote:In most professions everyone who wants leave can't automatically get it at the same time. Is this what the teachers are arguing for? That seems really out of touch.

No.

What we need are more teachers to replace those who have quit, and more substitute teachers.

But they want more subs so everyone can take off at Thanksgiving for a week, I think. That part seems pretty out of touch.

Really, no. At least in DC area schools people aren't being given personal leave for Thanksgiving week. But SUBS didn't want to work Mon-Wed so it was even harder to find subs for those teachers who were ill or had resigned or were quarantined etc. At least that's what happened in my school. We managed -- we just put several classes together in the cafeteria and let them hang out there with one teacher. But it wasn't great.

Okay, thank you for explaining. That is helpful to understand.

It's entirely possible though that HR approved the normal amount of Monday/Tuesday Thanksgiving week leave back in September, when they didn't realize we'd have such a shortage of staff and subs. They seem to have been taken by surprise by the situation. Going forward, I know in our school principals are really scrutinizing leave requests now and we are being urged not to take any leave if we can possibly help it.

Which is ridiculous. If you need a day, take a day. If you need 3 days, then take 3 days. No one is holding you there. It is crazy that you would care what a bunch of idiotic parents think. Teachers, if you need the time, then take the time.

We pay our teen neighbor to babysit for $17/hr and our kids are sleeping for most of the time she’s here.