Anonymous
08/25/2022 11:47
Subject: Re:Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
I'm not sure I agree with your position that club lacrosse is no more likely to flourish than rec is based on a couple of factors. First, let start off by saying I think club lacrosse actions over the last decade to rec lacrosse have been like a vampire to a damsel running through the woods late at night. They are sucking much of the ability for rec lacrosse to survive and is a clear detriment to their longtime goals. If they kill rec lacrosse (at least in NOVA) they will have killed the low cost entry point for many parents to the game. There is absolutely a place for rec and club teams should recognize its importance. though unfortunately many do not.
What is your solution to the problem? Club has a right to exist and will continue to exist because there is great demand for it. The players who get good and love lacrosse don't want to be (and shouldn't have to be) spread out amongst a bunch of rec teams playing with and against rec players who suck. The good players want to play with, and against, other good players.
The Virginia clubs are not saying "you can't play rec if you play for us" so how are they sucking the life out of rec?
Anonymous
08/24/2022 12:17
Subject: Re:Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote: All this suggests that club lacrosse is no more likely to flourish than is rec lacrosse, and club lacrosse is not the reason rec lacrosse is struggling (if that is true). Incidentally, the VA club teams my son has played for all encouraged their players to play rec as well.
I'm not sure I agree with your position that club lacrosse is no more likely to flourish than rec is based on a couple of factors. First, let start off by saying I think club lacrosse actions over the last decade to rec lacrosse have been like a vampire to a damsel running through the woods late at night. They are sucking much of the ability for rec lacrosse to survive and is a clear detriment to their longtime goals. If they kill rec lacrosse (at least in NOVA) they will have killed the low cost entry point for many parents to the game. There is absolutely a place for rec and club teams should recognize its importance. though unfortunately many do not.
Several club teams have been around 15, 20 or 20+ years in the area. Most of those teams are Montgomery county centric but have strong reaches into NOVA. NOVA centric clubs have been a mishmash but still some long tenured clubs out there - like VLC, Cavs before the merger., TC.
The prime issue is that there are likely more clubs then players in specific age groups. Mostly at the youth level. It isn't shocking that 2027 is one of those years. Those kids in 2027 would have been 5th graders when COVID hit and wiped out the spring lax season. While some kids went to travel at that point, many didn't and they either gave up lax or started to concentrate/focus in another sport. This hurts the numbers overall.
Anonymous
08/24/2022 11:49
Subject: Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Furious VLC parent here. Can someone tell me why VLC is so expensive when we are only going to have 1 or 2 practices per week in the fall and nothing in the winter (unless you want to pay extra for winter skillz and drillz)? How do we expect the kids to get better when we are essentially taking half a year off. Why don’t we have a tournament schedule so we can plan for the fall? And the next guy who gets on here and starts talking about tournaments and Recruiting can Step back and literally F*** their own face.
Didn't you know what you were signing up for? VLC is very clear in advance. You should direct your anger towards yourself for not exploring other options in the area like Top Caliber, True, and Hammers. Everything you are complaining about has been well documented and you had other options.
Anytime there is a complaint in this thread, the same anon (let’s call him Delta Charlie) chimes in that actually, it’s your fault and your kid’s fault, not the club’s fault. 🙄
Not DC, but I'll take that as a compliment. I did notice that rather than address the point, you decided to call names.
It isn't. And it is SOP in this forum to "call names" - factual information that addresses the point is what provokes Delta Charlie to divert the conversation into a discussion of why the complainer should be dismissed as a disgruntled parent with "an axe to grind".
Never said the disgruntled parent should be dismissed. Just calling for some personal responsibility. I don't know about you, but I perform due diligence before committing to something that costs $3K. But if you are willing to write that check in advance, and then find out what you are paying for after the fact, I'll forward you some of the emails we all get in our junk mail asking for money.
My factual information was that the parent committed and paid without knowing what they were paying for in advance and then is "furious". And people are blaming the club for that.
Anonymous
08/24/2022 11:20
Subject: Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Furious VLC parent here. Can someone tell me why VLC is so expensive when we are only going to have 1 or 2 practices per week in the fall and nothing in the winter (unless you want to pay extra for winter skillz and drillz)? How do we expect the kids to get better when we are essentially taking half a year off. Why don’t we have a tournament schedule so we can plan for the fall? And the next guy who gets on here and starts talking about tournaments and Recruiting can Step back and literally F*** their own face.
Didn't you know what you were signing up for? VLC is very clear in advance. You should direct your anger towards yourself for not exploring other options in the area like Top Caliber, True, and Hammers. Everything you are complaining about has been well documented and you had other options.
Anytime there is a complaint in this thread, the same anon (let’s call him Delta Charlie) chimes in that actually, it’s your fault and your kid’s fault, not the club’s fault. 🙄
Not DC, but I'll take that as a compliment. I did notice that rather than address the point, you decided to call names.
It isn't. And it is SOP in this forum to "call names" - factual information that addresses the point is what provokes Delta Charlie to divert the conversation into a discussion of why the complainer should be dismissed as a disgruntled parent with "an axe to grind".
Anonymous
08/24/2022 11:17
Subject: Re:Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse still lives in NOVA, but it is tenuous and coach dependent.
So is club lacrosse, including VLC.
Fair point that you cherry picked and took out of context. The next words that you decided to ignore is that club lacrosse (VLC, MadLax, Hammers, Top Caliber, BLC, Next Level, and everyone else) is a business. Making money is goal one. And it is supply and demand. NOVA parents have created a demand based on the mistaken belief that club lacrosse at the fourth grade level is a guaranteed ticket to D1 glory.
Every team at every club is coach dependent. The question asked was "is playing club before HS necessary?" I stand by my answer that it isn't.
It doesn't matter that it is a business. Club lacrosse is still tenuous and coach-dependent. We have seen clubs in this area come and go. The quality of any club (and indeed, of the different age-level teams within any club) is coach dependent. We have seen teams within clubs implode and go away - usually because the coaching was bad. All this suggests that club lacrosse is no more likely to flourish than is rec lacrosse, and club lacrosse is not the reason rec lacrosse is struggling (if that is true). Incidentally, the VA club teams my son has played for all encouraged their players to play rec as well.
Anonymous
08/24/2022 10:29
Subject: Re:Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse still lives in NOVA, but it is tenuous and coach dependent.
So is club lacrosse, including VLC.
Fair point that you cherry picked and took out of context. The next words that you decided to ignore is that club lacrosse (VLC, MadLax, Hammers, Top Caliber, BLC, Next Level, and everyone else) is a business. Making money is goal one. And it is supply and demand. NOVA parents have created a demand based on the mistaken belief that club lacrosse at the fourth grade level is a guaranteed ticket to D1 glory.
Every team at every club is coach dependent. The question asked was "is playing club before HS necessary?" I stand by my answer that it isn't.
"Fair point" that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. To answer your question, my response is: The 2023 class of players from this area had a really strong class of D1 committed players despite the extra year and COVID challenges, ML and NL each had close to 20, VLC 16, DCE 12-13, Hammers, TC, Blackwolf, each have a few as well. This area is and should be considered a hot bed of lacrosse. I do not know all of these players. I would estimate 99.9% of these and I know 100% of the D1 kids did not start club lacrosse in 9th grade, most started in or prior to 7th. They did not just play rec in the spring and show up and tryout for the HS team. The group of kids that were top players on top clubs are the ones that were recruited by coaches. This will not change for the 2024's and 2025's. If playing in college is not a goal then no you do not need to play for a club. The fallacy of your statement is that parents believe that club lacrosse is a ticket to D1. Parents know nothing is guaranteed. Each of the top teams have 3-4 kids who will not play college for a few reasons. Club provides a chance for kids to learn if they can play at the next level by comparing the talent with those that will. On the top clubs 75-80% get recruited. Playing for a club does not guarantee anything. However, for those that go on to play D1 lacrosse I would absolutely say it is necessary.
We are more aligned than you think.
And yes, this area should be considered a hot bed of lacrosse.
Maybe I overstated that all parents believe that club lacrosse is a ticket to D1. Just reporting the delusions I see on sidelines. Definitely not all parents. I was also reacting to "the best 2028 goalie in the area" who's dad apparently believes what the kid does now will earn him a scholarship.
Anonymous
08/24/2022 09:39
Subject: Re:Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse still lives in NOVA, but it is tenuous and coach dependent.
So is club lacrosse, including VLC.
Fair point that you cherry picked and took out of context. The next words that you decided to ignore is that club lacrosse (VLC, MadLax, Hammers, Top Caliber, BLC, Next Level, and everyone else) is a business. Making money is goal one. And it is supply and demand. NOVA parents have created a demand based on the mistaken belief that club lacrosse at the fourth grade level is a guaranteed ticket to D1 glory.
Every team at every club is coach dependent. The question asked was "is playing club before HS necessary?" I stand by my answer that it isn't.
"Fair point" that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. To answer your question, my response is: The 2023 class of players from this area had a really strong class of D1 committed players despite the extra year and COVID challenges, ML and NL each had close to 20, VLC 16, DCE 12-13, Hammers, TC, Blackwolf, each have a few as well. This area is and should be considered a hot bed of lacrosse. I do not know all of these players. I would estimate 99.9% of these and I know 100% of the D1 kids did not start club lacrosse in 9th grade, most started in or prior to 7th. They did not just play rec in the spring and show up and tryout for the HS team. The group of kids that were top players on top clubs are the ones that were recruited by coaches. This will not change for the 2024's and 2025's. If playing in college is not a goal then no you do not need to play for a club. The fallacy of your statement is that parents believe that club lacrosse is a ticket to D1. Parents know nothing is guaranteed. Each of the top teams have 3-4 kids who will not play college for a few reasons. Club provides a chance for kids to learn if they can play at the next level by comparing the talent with those that will. On the top clubs 75-80% get recruited. Playing for a club does not guarantee anything. However, for those that go on to play D1 lacrosse I would absolutely say it is necessary.
Anonymous
08/24/2022 09:17
Subject: Re:Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse still lives in NOVA, but it is tenuous and coach dependent.
So is club lacrosse, including VLC.
Fair point that you cherry picked and took out of context. The next words that you decided to ignore is that club lacrosse (VLC, MadLax, Hammers, Top Caliber, BLC, Next Level, and everyone else) is a business. Making money is goal one. And it is supply and demand. NOVA parents have created a demand based on the mistaken belief that club lacrosse at the fourth grade level is a guaranteed ticket to D1 glory.
Every team at every club is coach dependent. The question asked was "is playing club before HS necessary?" I stand by my answer that it isn't.
Anonymous
08/24/2022 09:13
Subject: Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Furious VLC parent here. Can someone tell me why VLC is so expensive when we are only going to have 1 or 2 practices per week in the fall and nothing in the winter (unless you want to pay extra for winter skillz and drillz)? How do we expect the kids to get better when we are essentially taking half a year off. Why don’t we have a tournament schedule so we can plan for the fall? And the next guy who gets on here and starts talking about tournaments and Recruiting can Step back and literally F*** their own face.
Didn't you know what you were signing up for? VLC is very clear in advance. You should direct your anger towards yourself for not exploring other options in the area like Top Caliber, True, and Hammers. Everything you are complaining about has been well documented and you had other options.
Anytime there is a complaint in this thread, the same anon (let’s call him Delta Charlie) chimes in that actually, it’s your fault and your kid’s fault, not the club’s fault. 🙄
Not DC, but I'll take that as a compliment. I did notice that rather than address the point, you decided to call names. I asked a simple question of how come they didn't know what they were signing up for in advance. Most clubs are pretty upfront about what they offer. And if you can't find it on the website (VLC's website is horrible when trying to find this info), there are always friendly parents hanging around at tryouts that are more than willing to discuss the pros and cons of a club, including how much they pay, tournaments, "extras", etc. VLC typically is not the best at communicating, and the "trust the process" line is old and cliche, but there are other sources of info readily available. My question back to the furious VLC parent is why didn't they do due diligence before accepting a roster spot and paying? The club absolutely could do better at communicating. But there needs to be personal ownership for the parent who apparently blindly accepted a roster spot and committed to paying the club fees.
Anonymous
08/23/2022 20:30
Subject: Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Furious VLC parent here. Can someone tell me why VLC is so expensive when we are only going to have 1 or 2 practices per week in the fall and nothing in the winter (unless you want to pay extra for winter skillz and drillz)? How do we expect the kids to get better when we are essentially taking half a year off. Why don’t we have a tournament schedule so we can plan for the fall? And the next guy who gets on here and starts talking about tournaments and Recruiting can Step back and literally F*** their own face.
Didn't you know what you were signing up for? VLC is very clear in advance. You should direct your anger towards yourself for not exploring other options in the area like Top Caliber, True, and Hammers. Everything you are complaining about has been well documented and you had other options.
Anytime there is a complaint in this thread, the same anon (let’s call him Delta Charlie) chimes in that actually, it’s your fault and your kid’s fault, not the club’s fault. 🙄
Anonymous
08/23/2022 20:26
Subject: Re:Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Rec lacrosse still lives in NOVA, but it is tenuous and coach dependent.
So is club lacrosse, including VLC.
Anonymous
08/23/2022 16:56
Subject: Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Does top caliber Hammers Hardlax true practice more than three times a week? FYI no club teams practice much in HS. VLC is also cheaper than most of those options. Hammers lists prices on the website. Recruiting success and level of tournaments not even close. Is Blackwolf still a thing?
Worst Haiku ever.
Anonymous
08/23/2022 14:32
Subject: Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Does top caliber Hammers Hardlax true practice more than three times a week? FYI no club teams practice much in HS. VLC is also cheaper than most of those options. Hammers lists prices on the website. Recruiting success and level of tournaments not even close. Is Blackwolf still a thing?
Anonymous
08/23/2022 10:18
Subject: Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Furious VLC parent here. Can someone tell me why VLC is so expensive when we are only going to have 1 or 2 practices per week in the fall and nothing in the winter (unless you want to pay extra for winter skillz and drillz)? How do we expect the kids to get better when we are essentially taking half a year off. Why don’t we have a tournament schedule so we can plan for the fall? And the next guy who gets on here and starts talking about tournaments and Recruiting can Step back and literally F*** their own face.
Didn't you know what you were signing up for? VLC is very clear in advance. You should direct your anger towards yourself for not exploring other options in the area like Top Caliber, True, and Hammers. Everything you are complaining about has been well documented and you had other options.
Anonymous
08/23/2022 10:15
Subject: Feedback on VLC Club Lacrosse?
Anonymous wrote:Honest question: Under the theory that clubs mainly provide access to top tournaments/recruiting and to get better at lacrosse our sons should play other sports and "hit the wall" - are all youth lax parents fools? If what you're saying is true, it seems to me that kids should do rec lacrosse until 9th grade and then join a club. This seems unlikely to me.
There is actually serious merit to this idea. Not saying all youth lax parents are fools. But there is definitely a "fear of missing out" / "keeping up with the Jones's" mentality in the DMV area that club lacrosse has capitalized on financially. Club lacrosse has basically killed rec lacrosse in MD because playing for both isn't allowed. Rec lacrosse still lives in NOVA, but it is tenuous and coach dependent. Clubs are starting earlier and earlier. But realize it for what it is, a financial boon for the clubs. No club, rec team, or high school team will guarantee being able to play lacrosse in college. First and foremost, the desire to play college lacrosse has to come from an inner drive by the player. Then natural athleticism comes into play. Those two combined may result in being able to play in college. And it isn't / shouldn't be D1 or bust, either. There are great collegiate programs across all divisions for almost any player that wants to play in college. Just like there are great clubs across all skill and commitment levels for any player that wants to play at the youth/HS level. Don't believe the hype and marketing machines. Find what fits for your situation and make the most of it. And have fun! Lacrosse is actually a sport you can play for a lifetime. There are countless adult leagues. Don't get burned out at the younger age chasing the dream.