Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:54
Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Was Kendall hurting Roman's injuries while "hugging" him? Roman looked like he was going to puke in the board meeting. The dysfunction and toxicity, wow.
Yes - he re-opened the wound on Roman's head as a show of force.
While I don’t condone violence I didn’t mind seeing Roman get the sh!t beat out of him. He’s been such an obnoxious, smarmy, unlikeable character throughout the show and what he said about Kendall’s children was awful!!!
Obviously that was terrible, but I think it's important to remember that Roman was repeating something his father had said. And Roman did that AFTER Kendall had force hugged him. He was lashing out. But of course the reason that Roman knew Logan said that is because Roman would have gone along with it and not pushed back on Logan. Shiv probably would have.
I think the fact that Logan didn't accept Kendall's children will only make the failure more bitter. And sadly, I think Kendall will internalize it and further destroy his relationship with his kids.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:41
Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:If Shiv's decision was based on emotion then what was Kendall and Roman's? Pure emotional desire to be in charge/have power/keep connection to Logan.
It was a tragedy, they all acted poorly in the end. That’s the point, there were no winners other than Mattson.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:37
Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Was Kendall hurting Roman's injuries while "hugging" him? Roman looked like he was going to puke in the board meeting. The dysfunction and toxicity, wow.
Yes - he re-opened the wound on Roman's head as a show of force.
While I don’t condone violence I didn’t mind seeing Roman get the sh!t beat out of him. He’s been such an obnoxious, smarmy, unlikeable character throughout the show and what he said about Kendall’s children was awful!!!
Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:35
Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Was Kendall hurting Roman's injuries while "hugging" him? Roman looked like he was going to puke in the board meeting. The dysfunction and toxicity, wow.
Yes - he re-opened the wound on Roman's head as a show of force.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:20
Subject: Succession - Season 4
If Shiv's decision was based on emotion then what was Kendall and Roman's? Pure emotional desire to be in charge/have power/keep connection to Logan.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:18
Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Agree with Shiv "joking" about killing Kendall. Raise your hand if you didn't think for a moment it was possible...yep. Bueller. Case closed.
I did think 100% that Kendall was going to die/drown in that scene though.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:17
Subject: Re:Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wonder if in some twisted way, Shiv thinks that voting for the deal so that Tom can become CEO might even the playing field in their marriage in a way that might make it almost functional. When their relationship started, Shiv had all the power because she had all the money, and Tom has always had to put up with abuse and disloyalty from her in order to stay in the family and maintain access to the lifestyle he wants.
But even though he's just a figurehead CEO, it's the most real power he's had in his life. He's going to get a big salary, stock options, and he'll have a ton of social power because he's now the US "face" of Waystar/GoJo. He now has real leverage in their relationship, which he's never had before. Shiv still has her billions (more than before thanks to the sale) and all the trappings of being a 1%er -- she knows all the right people and can get access to all the right places. In theory, at least, this move could allow them to operate as something akin to equals. They already have a weird power dynamic where they are both somewhat abusive of the other, maybe maintaining the tension of them both having leverage will help make that work.
Not saying Shiv's a romantic here -- I think she ultimately made a practical choice both for the company and herself. But the shot of her and Tom in the car makes me wonder if she's choosing that dynamic on purpose. Unlike her mom, she comes to the table with a lot of power, so it's not like she's signing up to be the little woman here. She can walk away any time and she doesn't need to ask Tom for anything. She's better off in a divorce now than before the GoJo deal because now she won't have to pay Tom support of any kind, he'll be too rich to justify it.
Tom hates her and initially rejected her attempt at reconciliation earlier in the episode. He’s only with her in exchange for her vote.
DP but he already had her vote by the time he told her about the car waiting and held out his hand. He was the one to proffer some reconciliation once he was CEO.
I agree with PPs that both sides now see the possibility of salvaging the relationship with more equal power balance on both sides. He was always more committed to having children. Noone would ever envision a smooth path for these two, but at least there is a viable possibility. Her reluctance to fully take his hand brilliantly conveyed her ambivalence about all of it.
I read it as more of a power play on his part, that she partially acquiesced to.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:03
Subject: Re:Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think some people like shiv so they want to justify her actions. Her choice wasn’t predicated on dollars, it was much more primitive emotions. Similar to how she stabbed Ken in the back just an episode prior. Her choice was sibling loyalty or keeping a rival from power. If it was dollars and cents driven, she would never have agreed to support Ken the night prior.
Except that her actions were justified. Everyone knew Ken would be a sh*tty CEO. She had no reason to vote his way other than sibling loyalty. And what did she owe him? Nada.
At least Ken did tip her off that Matsson had betrayed her.
He did that because he thought it would lock her vote his way. If she was voting emotionally, it would have.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:02
Subject: Re:Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think some people like shiv so they want to justify her actions. Her choice wasn’t predicated on dollars, it was much more primitive emotions. Similar to how she stabbed Ken in the back just an episode prior. Her choice was sibling loyalty or keeping a rival from power. If it was dollars and cents driven, she would never have agreed to support Ken the night prior.
Except that her actions were justified. Everyone knew Ken would be a sh*tty CEO. She had no reason to vote his way other than sibling loyalty. And what did she owe him? Nada.
In the end, the only thing any of the siblings had that had value was their relationships with one another. They would be in godly rich either way.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 15:01
Subject: Re:Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think some people like shiv so they want to justify her actions. Her choice wasn’t predicated on dollars, it was much more primitive emotions. Similar to how she stabbed Ken in the back just an episode prior. Her choice was sibling loyalty or keeping a rival from power. If it was dollars and cents driven, she would never have agreed to support Ken the night prior.
Except that her actions were justified. Everyone knew Ken would be a sh*tty CEO. She had no reason to vote his way other than sibling loyalty. And what did she owe him? Nada.
At least Ken did tip her off that Matsson had betrayed her.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 14:57
Subject: Re:Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think some people like shiv so they want to justify her actions. Her choice wasn’t predicated on dollars, it was much more primitive emotions. Similar to how she stabbed Ken in the back just an episode prior. Her choice was sibling loyalty or keeping a rival from power. If it was dollars and cents driven, she would never have agreed to support Ken the night prior.
Except that her actions were justified. Everyone knew Ken would be a sh*tty CEO. She had no reason to vote his way other than sibling loyalty. And what did she owe him? Nada.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 14:55
Subject: Re:Succession - Season 4
Honestly, I think some people like shiv so they want to justify her actions. Her choice wasn’t predicated on dollars, it was much more primitive emotions. Similar to how she stabbed Ken in the back just an episode prior. Her choice was sibling loyalty or keeping a rival from power. If it was dollars and cents driven, she would never have agreed to support Ken the night prior.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 14:41
Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Colin looking out for Kendall is like a last gift from Logan. Colin is doing it out of his affection for Logan.
Why can’t the Pierce deal still go through? Aren’t the kids under contract with Pierce?
Good question. What happened to the Pierce deal?
The Pierce deal was a macguffin to give the siblings another chance to battle with Logan.
Anonymous
05/29/2023 14:37
Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If Shiv hadn't voted for Tom, the show wouldn't have really ended. We know the kids would just be stabbing each other in the back at Waystar for the rest of their lives. With Mattson taking over the kids are forced into new lives, whatever those new lives might look like, and we'll never know. But from a writing standpoint the Shiv-Tom-Mattson ending brings (a little) more closure.
Agreed.
+2 She made a rational, sensible decision that offered relative closure. She has a child on the way, can take her fortune and get out. I like that the writers didn't include any fast forwards, just a suggestion that no matter what they'll still probably be miserable. That seems right.
Nope, she made a completely emotional decision.
Well it was the smartest.
+1000
Anonymous
05/29/2023 14:21
Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If Shiv hadn't voted for Tom, the show wouldn't have really ended. We know the kids would just be stabbing each other in the back at Waystar for the rest of their lives. With Mattson taking over the kids are forced into new lives, whatever those new lives might look like, and we'll never know. But from a writing standpoint the Shiv-Tom-Mattson ending brings (a little) more closure.
Agreed.
+2 She made a rational, sensible decision that offered relative closure. She has a child on the way, can take her fortune and get out. I like that the writers didn't include any fast forwards, just a suggestion that no matter what they'll still probably be miserable. That seems right.
Nope, she made a completely emotional decision.
Well it was the smartest.
In your opinion, it left her an empty shell of a person married to a puppet for a man she hated.
At least she got an overvalued payout for her shares. Kendall was bound to tank the company. We’ve seen him try to pay grownup before in season 3.
It was half shares/ half cash so she has to hope Mattson does better then he did with India.
Still a secure deal for her, with tons of liquidity, versus god knows what devalued share prices under Kendall down the road.