Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments are sad. A lot of women don’t know what we want sexually because we are conditioned from young ages to prioritize the man’s satisfaction. Our general definition of sex is basically a man having an O. We don’t focus a lot on our own pleasure and are often quite detached from it, especially if we grew up in a culture that wasn’t sex-positive for girls. I think if we could just learn, without shame, more about our own bodies and what kinds of situations are best for our pleasure, it would be better for marriages but more importantly for us.

I definitely think women don't know what they want sexually, should focus on that, and should communicate what they want. I'm not sure I agree that women are conditioned to prioritize what men want sexually. I'm a data point of one, but I don't know that I've ever experienced a woman being all that focused on my sexual satisfaction. I think a lot of men have the same experience as me. I think women are shamed and taught to be reticent about sex, so they really aren't prioritizing anyone's sexual satisfaction -- his or hers.

Imagine a sexual experience in which your partner had an orgasm, but you didn’t, maybe because she just wasn’t that great at figuring out how to make you O, so you stop and say, hey, it’s fine, let’s just move on with our day.

Most people, men and women, would think that’s really weird. That wouldn’t even count as sex. But with the sexes reversed, that is what sex is frequently like for a good number of women. Sex basically equals a man’s pleasure and hers is a bonus but not required. That’s what I mean by women are conditioned to focus on a man’s pleasure .

Yes, we are all conditioned to focus on male pleasure as the point of sex. That's why "sex" is generally defined as PIV, which usually doesn't result in orgasm for women. Most men (and probably most women) don't even know that. So many men honestly believe that jackhammering away for as long as possible is the best way to please a woman. So many women honestly believe that there's something wrong with them if they don't enjoy the jackhammering.

My experience is that a sexual encounter is generally considered a failure if the man doesn't orgasm, but the woman orgasming is generally considered optional. Plenty of men have been happy to leave me hanging, but they always get theirs.

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Anonymous wrote:Reading DCUM makes me want to bow down and kiss my wife's feet. We have sex 1-2 times a week. Touch wood!

Same. My husband doesn’t feel entitled to my body and thinks it’s disgusting that people think that a spouse not wanting to have sex is a reason to cheat. And we have sex twice a week. Woo hoo!

What is a reason to cheat, if not that you can't get enough sex at home (?)

Why would interpret my comment as suggesting there is a good reason to cheat at all?

So even if a marriage is a good friendship, great for raising kids, good mutual friends, and good for building an estate, you think one should never cheat and just be satisfied with terrible sex?

Never cheat, yes. Nobody should ever cheat.

Be satisfied with terrible sex? No. There are sooooo many other options. But most men (sorry don’t take this personally) refuse to work through the situation in any way that requires vulnerability. They just demand, pout, implement bad advice they found online, and then if that doesn’t work, they cheat. And most women often aren’t creative about the situation and see sex as only something a man wants rather than get in touch with their own sexuality (or, yes, even research non monogamous alternatives).

I have read the trauma people experience from being cheated on and the idea that somebody could seriously contemplating putting anybody, much their spouse, through that is wild to me. Women go from feeling like they are on top of the world to having zero self esteem and PTSD. There is no excuse for putting somebody through that, even if you want to go the childish route and claim “but they started it.”

I'm the wife. See my post at 8:56 am today for more details. I believe my options are: self satisfaction, cheat or divorce. Do you have any comment?

Look, I don’t know if you are actually asking me for advice or just to have a gotcha moment to make me admit that there are occasions to cheat. If you want actual advice, I’m not a sex therapist or an expert in sex, but I will say that those three options are not your only ones (although I am all for self-satisfaction and I think divorce has too high of a stigma).

Your situation sucks, I will 100% give you that. But it seems like even more than the issue of sex is that your husband has too many hang ups to actually care about you as much as he should. Some people are so stuck in themselves that they cannot connect to others. Does that play out in other aspects of your marriage? Seems like he needs therapy, for sure, but obviously you cannot make him do that.

But whatever you do, it is my opinion that it should never involve cheating. Usually people cheat because they are avoiding something difficult, like maybe in your case having a conversation about non monogamy or going to therapy or your needs. But obviously I am just some random internet commenter with strong feelings about how one treats other people and you are under no obligation to care about my opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments are sad. A lot of women don’t know what we want sexually because we are conditioned from young ages to prioritize the man’s satisfaction. Our general definition of sex is basically a man having an O. We don’t focus a lot on our own pleasure and are often quite detached from it, especially if we grew up in a culture that wasn’t sex-positive for girls. I think if we could just learn, without shame, more about our own bodies and what kinds of situations are best for our pleasure, it would be better for marriages but more importantly for us.

I definitely think women don't know what they want sexually, should focus on that, and should communicate what they want. I'm not sure I agree that women are conditioned to prioritize what men want sexually. I'm a data point of one, but I don't know that I've ever experienced a woman being all that focused on my sexual satisfaction. I think a lot of men have the same experience as me. I think women are shamed and taught to be reticent about sex, so they really aren't prioritizing anyone's sexual satisfaction -- his or hers.

Imagine a sexual experience in which your partner had an orgasm, but you didn’t, maybe because she just wasn’t that great at figuring out how to make you O, so you stop and say, hey, it’s fine, let’s just move on with our day.

Most people, men and women, would think that’s really weird. That wouldn’t even count as sex. But with the sexes reversed, that is what sex is frequently like for a good number of women. Sex basically equals a man’s pleasure and hers is a bonus but not required. That’s what I mean by women are conditioned to focus on a man’s pleasure .

I infrequently O but I know my husband does his best as he is very solicitous about what I would like. I may be a bit prudish but I am what I am and I know he would do whatever I wanted. It is definitely not just about his needs. I’m happy when he O’s and I must be pretty good because after many years he keeps coming back for more.

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Anonymous wrote:Reading DCUM makes me want to bow down and kiss my wife's feet. We have sex 1-2 times a week. Touch wood!

Same. My husband doesn’t feel entitled to my body and thinks it’s disgusting that people think that a spouse not wanting to have sex is a reason to cheat. And we have sex twice a week. Woo hoo!

What is a reason to cheat, if not that you can't get enough sex at home (?)

Why would interpret my comment as suggesting there is a good reason to cheat at all?

So even if a marriage is a good friendship, great for raising kids, good mutual friends, and good for building an estate, you think one should never cheat and just be satisfied with terrible sex?

Never cheat, yes. Nobody should ever cheat.

Be satisfied with terrible sex? No. There are sooooo many other options. But most men (sorry don’t take this personally) refuse to work through the situation in any way that requires vulnerability. They just demand, pout, implement bad advice they found online, and then if that doesn’t work, they cheat. And most women often aren’t creative about the situation and see sex as only something a man wants rather than get in touch with their own sexuality (or, yes, even research non monogamous alternatives).

I have read the trauma people experience from being cheated on and the idea that somebody could seriously contemplating putting anybody, much their spouse, through that is wild to me. Women go from feeling like they are on top of the world to having zero self esteem and PTSD. There is no excuse for putting somebody through that, even if you want to go the childish route and claim “but they started it.”

I'm the wife. See my post at 8:56 am today for more details. I believe my options are: self satisfaction, cheat or divorce. Do you have any comment?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments are sad. A lot of women don’t know what we want sexually because we are conditioned from young ages to prioritize the man’s satisfaction. Our general definition of sex is basically a man having an O. We don’t focus a lot on our own pleasure and are often quite detached from it, especially if we grew up in a culture that wasn’t sex-positive for girls. I think if we could just learn, without shame, more about our own bodies and what kinds of situations are best for our pleasure, it would be better for marriages but more importantly for us.

I definitely think women don't know what they want sexually, should focus on that, and should communicate what they want. I'm not sure I agree that women are conditioned to prioritize what men want sexually. I'm a data point of one, but I don't know that I've ever experienced a woman being all that focused on my sexual satisfaction. I think a lot of men have the same experience as me. I think women are shamed and taught to be reticent about sex, so they really aren't prioritizing anyone's sexual satisfaction -- his or hers.

What do you mean by “all that focused” on your sexual satisfaction? Do they think about sex as an activity that always involves *your* orgasm? If so, how is that not focusing on your sexual satisfaction?

Also, maybe you have had bad luck, but maybe you could consider trying to be a better sexual partner. I feel like for most women, maybe even for most people, enthusiasm is contagious.

But still, if sex for your partner always includes your orgasm, that is a focus on your sexual satisfaction.

exactly. PP’s male orgasm is such a basic assumption of what sex is that he can’t even see it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments are sad. A lot of women don’t know what we want sexually because we are conditioned from young ages to prioritize the man’s satisfaction. Our general definition of sex is basically a man having an O. We don’t focus a lot on our own pleasure and are often quite detached from it, especially if we grew up in a culture that wasn’t sex-positive for girls. I think if we could just learn, without shame, more about our own bodies and what kinds of situations are best for our pleasure, it would be better for marriages but more importantly for us.

I definitely think women don't know what they want sexually, should focus on that, and should communicate what they want. I'm not sure I agree that women are conditioned to prioritize what men want sexually. I'm a data point of one, but I don't know that I've ever experienced a woman being all that focused on my sexual satisfaction. I think a lot of men have the same experience as me. I think women are shamed and taught to be reticent about sex, so they really aren't prioritizing anyone's sexual satisfaction -- his or hers.

then you have very little insight into women. just because they don’t do the exact move you like or whatever metric you use for your “satisfaction” doesn’t mean women aren’t trained to do what men want. it’s much more basic than that - women are taught explicitly and implicitly that they have to “give” men sex no matter how the woman herself feels.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments are sad. A lot of women don’t know what we want sexually because we are conditioned from young ages to prioritize the man’s satisfaction. Our general definition of sex is basically a man having an O. We don’t focus a lot on our own pleasure and are often quite detached from it, especially if we grew up in a culture that wasn’t sex-positive for girls. I think if we could just learn, without shame, more about our own bodies and what kinds of situations are best for our pleasure, it would be better for marriages but more importantly for us.

I definitely think women don't know what they want sexually, should focus on that, and should communicate what they want. I'm not sure I agree that women are conditioned to prioritize what men want sexually. I'm a data point of one, but I don't know that I've ever experienced a woman being all that focused on my sexual satisfaction. I think a lot of men have the same experience as me. I think women are shamed and taught to be reticent about sex, so they really aren't prioritizing anyone's sexual satisfaction -- his or hers.

Imagine a sexual experience in which your partner had an orgasm, but you didn’t, maybe because she just wasn’t that great at figuring out how to make you O, so you stop and say, hey, it’s fine, let’s just move on with our day.

Most people, men and women, would think that’s really weird. That wouldn’t even count as sex. But with the sexes reversed, that is what sex is frequently like for a good number of women. Sex basically equals a man’s pleasure and hers is a bonus but not required. That’s what I mean by women are conditioned to focus on a man’s pleasure .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These comments are sad. A lot of women don’t know what we want sexually because we are conditioned from young ages to prioritize the man’s satisfaction. Our general definition of sex is basically a man having an O. We don’t focus a lot on our own pleasure and are often quite detached from it, especially if we grew up in a culture that wasn’t sex-positive for girls. I think if we could just learn, without shame, more about our own bodies and what kinds of situations are best for our pleasure, it would be better for marriages but more importantly for us.

I definitely think women don't know what they want sexually, should focus on that, and should communicate what they want. I'm not sure I agree that women are conditioned to prioritize what men want sexually. I'm a data point of one, but I don't know that I've ever experienced a woman being all that focused on my sexual satisfaction. I think a lot of men have the same experience as me. I think women are shamed and taught to be reticent about sex, so they really aren't prioritizing anyone's sexual satisfaction -- his or hers.

What do you mean by “all that focused” on your sexual satisfaction? Do they think about sex as an activity that always involves *your* orgasm? If so, how is that not focusing on your sexual satisfaction?

Also, maybe you have had bad luck, but maybe you could consider trying to be a better sexual partner. I feel like for most women, maybe even for most people, enthusiasm is contagious.

But still, if sex for your partner always includes your orgasm, that is a focus on your sexual satisfaction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading DCUM makes me want to bow down and kiss my wife's feet. We have sex 1-2 times a week. Touch wood!

Same. My husband doesn’t feel entitled to my body and thinks it’s disgusting that people think that a spouse not wanting to have sex is a reason to cheat. And we have sex twice a week. Woo hoo!

What is a reason to cheat, if not that you can't get enough sex at home (?)

Why would interpret my comment as suggesting there is a good reason to cheat at all?

So even if a marriage is a good friendship, great for raising kids, good mutual friends, and good for building an estate, you think one should never cheat and just be satisfied with terrible sex?

Never cheat, yes. Nobody should ever cheat.

Be satisfied with terrible sex? No. There are sooooo many other options. But most men (sorry don’t take this personally) refuse to work through the situation in any way that requires vulnerability. They just demand, pout, implement bad advice they found online, and then if that doesn’t work, they cheat. And most women often aren’t creative about the situation and see sex as only something a man wants rather than get in touch with their own sexuality (or, yes, even research non monogamous alternatives).

I have read the trauma people experience from being cheated on and the idea that somebody could seriously contemplating putting anybody, much their spouse, through that is wild to me. Women go from feeling like they are on top of the world to having zero self esteem and PTSD. There is no excuse for putting somebody through that, even if you want to go the childish route and claim “but they started it.”

Anonymous wrote:These comments are sad. A lot of women don’t know what we want sexually because we are conditioned from young ages to prioritize the man’s satisfaction. Our general definition of sex is basically a man having an O. We don’t focus a lot on our own pleasure and are often quite detached from it, especially if we grew up in a culture that wasn’t sex-positive for girls. I think if we could just learn, without shame, more about our own bodies and what kinds of situations are best for our pleasure, it would be better for marriages but more importantly for us.

I definitely think women don't know what they want sexually, should focus on that, and should communicate what they want. I'm not sure I agree that women are conditioned to prioritize what men want sexually. I'm a data point of one, but I don't know that I've ever experienced a woman being all that focused on my sexual satisfaction. I think a lot of men have the same experience as me. I think women are shamed and taught to be reticent about sex, so they really aren't prioritizing anyone's sexual satisfaction -- his or hers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading DCUM makes me want to bow down and kiss my wife's feet. We have sex 1-2 times a week. Touch wood!

Same. My husband doesn’t feel entitled to my body and thinks it’s disgusting that people think that a spouse not wanting to have sex is a reason to cheat. And we have sex twice a week. Woo hoo!

What is a reason to cheat, if not that you can't get enough sex at home (?)

Why would interpret my comment as suggesting there is a good reason to cheat at all?

So even if a marriage is a good friendship, great for raising kids, good mutual friends, and good for building an estate, you think one should never cheat and just be satisfied with terrible sex?

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Anonymous wrote:Other way around. I told DH that we weren't having enough sex. While he seemed content and with little interest, I was not very happy. I told him how displeased and unsatisfied I was. It did manage to turn things around and he's making more of an effort to initiate. We've both made adjustments.

So yes, it does work when one party communicates with the other party. If you're not happy, why would you keep it to yourself?

+1. I find it odd that so many people here think the issue shouldn't be discussed and, to the extent its a dealbreaker, to let your partner know.

I mentioned in one of these threads that communicating this to my wife was actively counterproductive. In addition to the existing reasons for not wanting to have sex with me (her body image issues, hormones, lack of novelty in a long-term marriage) now she had the pressure of knowing that I was not happy with our sex life which added to her lack of libido. And, when she did have sex with me, it wasn't as good because I now had the suspicion she might just be doing it out of a sense of obligation.

Women don’t care that much about novelty. If anything, the love and trust that grow with your sense of familiarity with your spouse enhances both the amount and quality of sex.

I can't cite anything at the moment, so maybe I'm wrong, but I thought studies tended to show that women grew bored with sex more rapidly than men while in long term relationships.

+1 of course women crave novelty. what a ridiculous statement.

I noted earlier that this is not necessarily true. Familiarity with a person comes with love and trust. When a person feels truly loved by their spouse and has a strong trust in that person, good and frequent sex is much more likely.

Any woman in a good marriage I’ve ever talked to much prefers the person she has known well and been intimate with for years over sme new guy. I don’t doubt that women in troubled marriages might want someone new; she probably doesn’t feel love and trust with the one she’s with if the rest of the marriage is not as happy as it could be.

Familiarity + love + trust = good sex. Every time.

That's just an old trope. The best sex I ever had was with men I would never marry because they weren't compatible with me in one or more major ways. Because I didn't care what they thought of my sexual desires, I could relax and be myself. Too much emotion caught up in a marriage to have a great sex life if you're inherently not compatible in that department.

It sounds like you don’t trust your husband. Are you afraid that he is going to make fun of you? Think badly of you? You would really rather never have great sex again than tell your husband your sexual desires?

My husband is a repressed former Catholic. I told him two of the things I like, and he rejected both of them and in fact responded with a cutting comment, "I tried X activity in the early days of our dating, and you said no. Why all of a sudden do you want it now?" And the second thing he just didn't respond to in any way. I trust that he won't tell anyone what I like - nothing I've told him is that unusual anyway - but I don't feel like being open and vulnerable to someone who doesn't make me feel safe, much less encouraging about what I really like.

Anonymous wrote:In my relationship:
“Come over here and get on top of me”-I can get into
“It’s been a while…I noticed we haven’t been doing it as much lately”*sad pouty face*-my sex drive shrivels up and dies

Haha oh my goodness this is soooooo true for me! Nothing turns me off more than pouting for sex. Or any demanding it in a non-sexy way.

Anonymous wrote:These comments are sad. A lot of women don’t know what we want sexually because we are conditioned from young ages to prioritize the man’s satisfaction. Our general definition of sex is basically a man having an O. We don’t focus a lot on our own pleasure and are often quite detached from it, especially if we grew up in a culture that wasn’t sex-positive for girls. I think if we could just learn, without shame, more about our own bodies and what kinds of situations are best for our pleasure, it would be better for marriages but more importantly for us.

And what got me thinking about this were all the statements about what women want. Novelty, familiarity, sex toys, all the housework done beforehand, etc. Each woman is different, but people seem to think there is a one size fits all solution to the “problem” of female sexuality. Bummer.

These comments are sad. A lot of women don’t know what we want sexually because we are conditioned from young ages to prioritize the man’s satisfaction. Our general definition of sex is basically a man having an O. We don’t focus a lot on our own pleasure and are often quite detached from it, especially if we grew up in a culture that wasn’t sex-positive for girls. I think if we could just learn, without shame, more about our own bodies and what kinds of situations are best for our pleasure, it would be better for marriages but more importantly for us.