Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are too many extreme viewpoints on both sides here. If we’re looking at pure financial return on investment (which is really the only objective measure for comparing majors), it’s going to be a sliding scale in reality depending upon school ranking, type of major, whether grad school is required, etc. Whether someone is personally fulfilled by a particular field is totally subjective and up to the individual - I certainly wouldn’t advocate my own children to go into a field that they despise for financial reasons, but I also think there’s a middle ground between a whimsical “follow your heart at all costs” justification for chasing jobs with low pay and/or lottery-type odds of getting and being forced into a job someone hates purely because of money.

For instance, my ultimate dream job would be one where I get paid for watching sports all day, but those jobs are few and far between (and many don’t pay a living wage even if you got hired). However, I did find a job that I *like* as far as a job goes that also pays enough to provide a comfortable living and gives me enough time and resources to enjoy my hobbies in my free time (including watching sports and helping coach my kids’ teams). I like my job enough that I’m happy going to work and believe that I’m receiving fair compensation, but my work is also not my core identity and I’m not going to be one of those people that will hem and haw when I’m ready to retire - I work to live as opposed to live to work.

Bottom line: no one should do a job that they hate for money, but by the same token, “love” for a job can only go so far if it doesn’t pay the bills (or even worse, simply doesn’t exist due to scarcity). It’s almost as of though people forget to ask their kids what they *like* to do (which might not be a “love” or “passion”) and explore options on that front.

FWIW, I was a finance major in undergrad at a Big Ten state school that then went to law school. My fellow finance majors tended to do well financially and my fellow law school grads that had humanities majors (which is what we’re really talking about when we say “liberal arts majors”) also generally did well. I’ll be honest that the pure humanities majors that I knew that didn’t go onto law school or some other professional school have had a harder time financially overall in average than STEM or business majors. To deny that would be disingenuous - those are simply the odds (even if there are many individual anecdotes to the contrary).

Now, it’s likely very different if you’re a humanities major at an Ivy/Ivy-level elite school - there’s a lot more leeway because the brand of your school means more than your major in those instances. However, the same advice realistically wouldn’t apply to even my Big Ten state school (which always ranks fairy high in academic rankings) for the average student. I’d imagine that grass from lower-ranked schools would have an even harder time. Circumstances are simply going to be different depending upon the student, institution, etc.

This is a really compelling point. Should I encourage my DD to look into economics since she has always liked math and social sciences when she also wants to study history? I know she can continue to study history but as a major, economics might be better suited towards Dad's career interests in data science and she doesn't hate the subject. DD has met several international students at college and is amazed that some of them are able to power through double majors in quantitative fields like math, economics, and computer science (aka liberal arts subjects) with some ambivalence towards the specific subjects. She's kind of inspired because some of these kids have career aspirations in finance, tech, and consulting and like their majors enough to pursue them even if it isn't their "passion" but also find time to take courses in languages and humanities/social sciences to not only balance out their schedule but also to pursue their other academic interests. (This is not a post about international kids who can "grind" and fulfill nerdy stereotypes, we ourselves are an immigrant family, but it was interesting to reflect on kids who feel that a specific major will help them land a specific career or at least a career with financial stability and security and international demand, even if it isn't their utmost passion.)For families who are more concerned about their kids' employment, it could provide some potential guidelines where their child's strengths and interests are still reflected in the choice of major but that the major also allows their child to pursue their own interests on the side, both at college and as a working adult.

Honestly, your DD should look incredibly carefully at curricular requirements and figure out some cross-listed classes so she can double-degree in history and economics. Especially as fewer students have majored in humanities, many schools have loosened up the requirements for a major, so that it's easier to double-major. That will maximize chances, give her more time to figure out what she wants, and if she does end up going into academic, that second major will be really important to expand options. Also consider looking carefully about what schools have strong majors in both and minimal core curriculum requirements that will make double-majoring difficult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would make me so sad to think that my kid didn’t have the wherewithal to study whatever they want AND make a living.

What's your child studying? It really depends what they study and what job they want to have. As discussed in another thread, film is a really hard field to enter and support yourself off of, so your child may have to study an additional subject to help compensate for the difficult job market. Yes, it takes some creativity, but let's also not blame the kids if they can't get a job when unfortunately many employers are looking for graduates with certain skill sets, rather than being willing to provide onsite training. That's kind of rude for every kid who followed your advice to "study whatever they want" and have a hard time later on. Unfortunately, not everyone has lucrative interests, which is sometimes why kids have to study something they don't love but like.

I think the issue is more kids who are determined to work in a non-lucrative field va what they study. My undergrad was in Semitic languages, and now I’m in tech. If I were determined to work in the field I got my undergrad in, that would be tough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would make me so sad to think that my kid didn’t have the wherewithal to study whatever they want AND make a living.

What's your child studying? It really depends what they study and what job they want to have. As discussed in another thread, film is a really hard field to enter and support yourself off of, so your child may have to study an additional subject to help compensate for the difficult job market. Yes, it takes some creativity, but let's also not blame the kids if they can't get a job when unfortunately many employers are looking for graduates with certain skill sets, rather than being willing to provide onsite training. That's kind of rude for every kid who followed your advice to "study whatever they want" and have a hard time later on. Unfortunately, not everyone has lucrative interests, which is sometimes why kids have to study something they don't love but like.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things I have learned from this thread:

- Liberal Arts graduates remain jobless
- Liberal Arts does not include math or sciences
- Liberal Arts students all cheat
- Liberal Arts professors are lazy and don't do their jobs

Glad I got this straight. Glad I now know that the educational approach that had tremendous successes for thousands of years and gave us virtually all of Western culture is now suddenly worthless.

Thanks for setting me straight, geniuses of DCUM!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts_education

Some fraternities have a list of classes one can take and get a decent grade without taking any tests along with contact information for various different companies one can order different type of papers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are too many extreme viewpoints on both sides here. If we’re looking at pure financial return on investment (which is really the only objective measure for comparing majors), it’s going to be a sliding scale in reality depending upon school ranking, type of major, whether grad school is required, etc. Whether someone is personally fulfilled by a particular field is totally subjective and up to the individual - I certainly wouldn’t advocate my own children to go into a field that they despise for financial reasons, but I also think there’s a middle ground between a whimsical “follow your heart at all costs” justification for chasing jobs with low pay and/or lottery-type odds of getting and being forced into a job someone hates purely because of money.

For instance, my ultimate dream job would be one where I get paid for watching sports all day, but those jobs are few and far between (and many don’t pay a living wage even if you got hired). However, I did find a job that I *like* as far as a job goes that also pays enough to provide a comfortable living and gives me enough time and resources to enjoy my hobbies in my free time (including watching sports and helping coach my kids’ teams). I like my job enough that I’m happy going to work and believe that I’m receiving fair compensation, but my work is also not my core identity and I’m not going to be one of those people that will hem and haw when I’m ready to retire - I work to live as opposed to live to work.

Bottom line: no one should do a job that they hate for money, but by the same token, “love” for a job can only go so far if it doesn’t pay the bills (or even worse, simply doesn’t exist due to scarcity). It’s almost as of though people forget to ask their kids what they *like* to do (which might not be a “love” or “passion”) and explore options on that front.

FWIW, I was a finance major in undergrad at a Big Ten state school that then went to law school. My fellow finance majors tended to do well financially and my fellow law school grads that had humanities majors (which is what we’re really talking about when we say “liberal arts majors”) also generally did well. I’ll be honest that the pure humanities majors that I knew that didn’t go onto law school or some other professional school have had a harder time financially overall in average than STEM or business majors. To deny that would be disingenuous - those are simply the odds (even if there are many individual anecdotes to the contrary).

Now, it’s likely very different if you’re a humanities major at an Ivy/Ivy-level elite school - there’s a lot more leeway because the brand of your school means more than your major in those instances. However, the same advice realistically wouldn’t apply to even my Big Ten state school (which always ranks fairy high in academic rankings) for the average student. I’d imagine that grass from lower-ranked schools would have an even harder time. Circumstances are simply going to be different depending upon the student, institution, etc.

This is a really compelling point. Should I encourage my DD to look into economics since she has always liked math and social sciences when she also wants to study history? I know she can continue to study history but as a major, economics might be better suited towards Dad's career interests in data science and she doesn't hate the subject. DD has met several international students at college and is amazed that some of them are able to power through double majors in quantitative fields like math, economics, and computer science (aka liberal arts subjects) with some ambivalence towards the specific subjects. She's kind of inspired because some of these kids have career aspirations in finance, tech, and consulting and like their majors enough to pursue them even if it isn't their "passion" but also find time to take courses in languages and humanities/social sciences to not only balance out their schedule but also to pursue their other academic interests. (This is not a post about international kids who can "grind" and fulfill nerdy stereotypes, we ourselves are an immigrant family, but it was interesting to reflect on kids who feel that a specific major will help them land a specific career or at least a career with financial stability and security and international demand, even if it isn't their utmost passion.)For families who are more concerned about their kids' employment, it could provide some potential guidelines where their child's strengths and interests are still reflected in the choice of major but that the major also allows their child to pursue their own interests on the side, both at college and as a working adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What major is he thinking about? And yes you should encourage your children to follow what they are passionate about.

Middle eastern studies at Emory University

Anonymous wrote:It would make me so sad to think that my kid didn’t have the wherewithal to study whatever they want AND make a living.