Anonymous
04/09/2021 13:38
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe, just maybe, the people on this listserve should ask how the students (and parents of the students) who will now be mandated to take these classes feel? Do they think it's a good idea? Are they excited? Hopeful? Upset? Outraged?
Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be centered around how those who are privileged by the current system feel about the changes without knowing how those who are disadvantaged feel....
This is exactly right. Thank you for making this point.
Unfortunately, I bet you’re going to get lots of replies from privileged parents of STEM-focused kids who think it’s unfair that their kids will have to take advanced humanities classes. (And to that point, I’d just note that my humanities-focused kid is going to take AP Calculus because that’s what’s expected of kids applying to highly selective colleges. Why is it so bad to expect STEM-focused kids to be similarly well-rounded?)
This is a great example of how policies ostensibly meant to help poor kids wind up being just another venue for unrelated status competitions among the privileged. You feel like humanities are undervalued in highly selective college admissions process, and therefore that it's good to force STEM-focused kids to do advanced work in that area -- because, after all, your kid is going to take advanced math. (Although, of course, that's voluntary.) But the majority of kids who are going to be affected by this policy aren't applying to selective colleges at all. They may be helped by this, they may be harmed, but to you the important part is that you get to punish kids who are demographically the same as yours but who have a more-valued set of skills and interests. Fun!
Um...I think that’s an overinterpretation of what was intended as an aside. First, I don’t think humanities is undervalued in admissions...nor did I say that anywhere? Second, I have no interest in punishing STEM kids—my other kid is a STEM kid, and I’m glad he’ll be required to take AP English and History; it will make him more well-rounded.
We agree about who will be most affected by this change—kids who currently aren’t applying to selective colleges. And that was PP’s point, to which I was responding. Those kids and their families are the ones whose opinions should be prioritized here; my point was that we’re unlikely to hear from them and instead to hear from other privileged parents who think this policy disadvantages their kids.
Yes, this was my point...maybe the opinions of (I am making an educated guess here) UMC white parents of kids already achieving should not be the central focus when it comes to deciding whether this is a good idea. Maybe we should be centering the discussion around how those affected--both by the current inequalities in the system and by the proposed changes--feel. Do THEY think it's a good idea? What do THEY think is needed to make this work? How can WE help make this work? If they don't think this is a good idea, then the administration would have to (I think) really reassess the strategy.
Anonymous
04/09/2021 12:14
Subject: Re:Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:My DC is at Wilson. DC might/might not have qualified for AP History and/or English under the old system. DC had a wonderful ELA teacher at Deal, who worked with her, and eventually DC scored a 5 on ELA PARCC. However, a teacher at another school helpfully told DC “You should really have someone proofread your work, because your spelling mistakes are going to mean that people won’t take you seriously”.
So maybe DC would have been chosen for AP ELA or AP History. Maybe not.
But I am telling you that DC is a very strong participant class discussions in ELA and history. Always has been. I mention that only to reassure you guys that the presence of my DC in your child’s AP class is not going to detract from anyone’s academic experience, despite my DC’s erratic ANET scores.
Something else: recently, I overheard a discussion in one of DC’s classes. During the discussion, the killer point — I mean the 100-percent-on-target-point that synthesized social, political, and economic factors — was made by a student who had to be encouraged to participate. Whose language was halting. Who, I suspect, might not otherwise have been on the AP path at all.
If that student had not been in that honors class, the education of every child in that class would have been diminished.
All kids will be in a room of peers to share their insights whether or not the class is labeled honors. Labeling it honors when there is no non-honors class does not hold the same meaning as what honors was intended for.
Anonymous
04/09/2021 12:08
Subject: Re:Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
There are successful examples out there where schools have done something similar and it has worked. The key difference is that those schools also add on intensive supports so lower performing students can actually succeed in these advanced classes. They create small advisories that are focused on writing and math tutoring and they often create a dedicated team of advisors and coaches who can help struggling kids and encourage them to stick with it and eventually succeed. Unfortunately I think all Wilson is doing is throwing all kids into advanced classes and asking teachers to somehow figure it out. My worry is that this will not be effective in helping anyone or creating real change.
Anonymous
04/09/2021 11:21
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wondering what folks think about this decision and will it impact what your junior decides to take?
If you think it means that they are going to somehow "dumb down" the class in ways that seem to perturb the wealthy parents of the neighborhood - remember that APs are a set curriculum. It's a good thing they are trying to make it more accessible. Nothing really to see here.
Isn't the majority of Wilson filled with students coming from wealthy white families with resources? Everyone in NW seems to have gifted kids. Why would anything need to be dumbed down. 95% of the student body should be able to fulfill honors/AP requirements easily.
https://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School
(2019 - 2020) 39% white
(2018 - 2019) 32% met/exceeded expectations in math
(2018 - 2019) 38% met/exceeded expectations in english language arts
Same poster. How in the heck are only 3% of students exceeding expectations in maths?
because there are a lot of students at Wilson who get to HS significantly behind in math and cannot do work at grade level. there are a bunch of kids who are not at grade level in English. the school should work to bring these students at grade level so they can do well. instead, they will be thrown into an AP class requiring extensive reading and writing assignments and be told to swim.
Anonymous
04/09/2021 10:58
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wondering what folks think about this decision and will it impact what your junior decides to take?
If you think it means that they are going to somehow "dumb down" the class in ways that seem to perturb the wealthy parents of the neighborhood - remember that APs are a set curriculum. It's a good thing they are trying to make it more accessible. Nothing really to see here.
Isn't the majority of Wilson filled with students coming from wealthy white families with resources? Everyone in NW seems to have gifted kids. Why would anything need to be dumbed down. 95% of the student body should be able to fulfill honors/AP requirements easily.
https://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School
(2019 - 2020) 39% white
(2018 - 2019) 32% met/exceeded expectations in math
(2018 - 2019) 38% met/exceeded expectations in english language arts
Same poster. How in the heck are only 3% of students exceeding expectations in maths?
Anonymous
04/09/2021 10:56
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wondering what folks think about this decision and will it impact what your junior decides to take?
If you think it means that they are going to somehow "dumb down" the class in ways that seem to perturb the wealthy parents of the neighborhood - remember that APs are a set curriculum. It's a good thing they are trying to make it more accessible. Nothing really to see here.
Isn't the majority of Wilson filled with students coming from wealthy white families with resources? Everyone in NW seems to have gifted kids. Why would anything need to be dumbed down. 95% of the student body should be able to fulfill honors/AP requirements easily.
https://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School
(2019 - 2020) 39% white
(2018 - 2019) 32% met/exceeded expectations in math
(2018 - 2019) 38% met/exceeded expectations in english language arts
Anonymous
04/09/2021 10:54
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe, just maybe, the people on this listserve should ask how the students (and parents of the students) who will now be mandated to take these classes feel? Do they think it's a good idea? Are they excited? Hopeful? Upset? Outraged?
Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be centered around how those who are privileged by the current system feel about the changes without knowing how those who are disadvantaged feel....
This is exactly right. Thank you for making this point.
Unfortunately, I bet you’re going to get lots of replies from privileged parents of STEM-focused kids who think it’s unfair that their kids will have to take advanced humanities classes. (And to that point, I’d just note that my humanities-focused kid is going to take AP Calculus because that’s what’s expected of kids applying to highly selective colleges. Why is it so bad to expect STEM-focused kids to be similarly well-rounded?)
This is a great example of how policies ostensibly meant to help poor kids wind up being just another venue for unrelated status competitions among the privileged. You feel like humanities are undervalued in highly selective college admissions process, and therefore that it's good to force STEM-focused kids to do advanced work in that area -- because, after all, your kid is going to take advanced math. (Although, of course, that's voluntary.) But the majority of kids who are going to be affected by this policy aren't applying to selective colleges at all. They may be helped by this, they may be harmed, but to you the important part is that you get to punish kids who are demographically the same as yours but who have a more-valued set of skills and interests. Fun!
Um...I think that’s an overinterpretation of what was intended as an aside. First, I don’t think humanities is undervalued in admissions...nor did I say that anywhere? Second, I have no interest in punishing STEM kids—my other kid is a STEM kid, and I’m glad he’ll be required to take AP English and History; it will make him more well-rounded.
We agree about who will be most affected by this change—kids who currently aren’t applying to selective colleges. And that was PP’s point, to which I was responding. Those kids and their families are the ones whose opinions should be prioritized here; my point was that we’re unlikely to hear from them and instead to hear from other privileged parents who think this policy disadvantages their kids.
Anonymous
04/09/2021 10:54
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Maybe, just maybe, the people on this listserve should ask how the students (and parents of the students) who will now be mandated to take these classes feel? Do they think it's a good idea? Are they excited? Hopeful? Upset? Outraged?
Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be centered around how those who are privileged by the current system feel about the changes without knowing how those who are disadvantaged feel....
This! The curriculum should be set by students’ feelings!
Anonymous
04/09/2021 10:48
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wondering what folks think about this decision and will it impact what your junior decides to take?
If you think it means that they are going to somehow "dumb down" the class in ways that seem to perturb the wealthy parents of the neighborhood - remember that APs are a set curriculum. It's a good thing they are trying to make it more accessible. Nothing really to see here.
Isn't the majority of Wilson filled with students coming from wealthy white families with resources? Everyone in NW seems to have gifted kids. Why would anything need to be dumbed down. 95% of the student body should be able to fulfill honors/AP requirements easily.
Anonymous
04/09/2021 10:43
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe, just maybe, the people on this listserve should ask how the students (and parents of the students) who will now be mandated to take these classes feel? Do they think it's a good idea? Are they excited? Hopeful? Upset? Outraged?
Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be centered around how those who are privileged by the current system feel about the changes without knowing how those who are disadvantaged feel....
This is exactly right. Thank you for making this point.
Unfortunately, I bet you’re going to get lots of replies from privileged parents of STEM-focused kids who think it’s unfair that their kids will have to take advanced humanities classes. (And to that point, I’d just note that my humanities-focused kid is going to take AP Calculus because that’s what’s expected of kids applying to highly selective colleges. Why is it so bad to expect STEM-focused kids to be similarly well-rounded?)
This is a great example of how policies ostensibly meant to help poor kids wind up being just another venue for unrelated status competitions among the privileged. You feel like humanities are undervalued in highly selective college admissions process, and therefore that it's good to force STEM-focused kids to do advanced work in that area -- because, after all, your kid is going to take advanced math. (Although, of course, that's voluntary.) But the majority of kids who are going to be affected by this policy aren't applying to selective colleges at all. They may be helped by this, they may be harmed, but to you the important part is that you get to punish kids who are demographically the same as yours but who have a more-valued set of skills and interests. Fun!
Anonymous
04/09/2021 10:20
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Maybe, just maybe, the people on this listserve should ask how the students (and parents of the students) who will now be mandated to take these classes feel? Do they think it's a good idea? Are they excited? Hopeful? Upset? Outraged?
Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be centered around how those who are privileged by the current system feel about the changes without knowing how those who are disadvantaged feel....
my understanding is that under the current system any child who wants to take AP English or AP History can do it, so no kids are shut out under the current system.
Anonymous
04/09/2021 10:09
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:Maybe, just maybe, the people on this listserve should ask how the students (and parents of the students) who will now be mandated to take these classes feel? Do they think it's a good idea? Are they excited? Hopeful? Upset? Outraged?
Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be centered around how those who are privileged by the current system feel about the changes without knowing how those who are disadvantaged feel....
This is exactly right. Thank you for making this point.
Unfortunately, I bet you’re going to get lots of replies from privileged parents of STEM-focused kids who think it’s unfair that their kids will have to take advanced humanities classes. (And to that point, I’d just note that my humanities-focused kid is going to take AP Calculus because that’s what’s expected of kids applying to highly selective colleges. Why is it so bad to expect STEM-focused kids to be similarly well-rounded?)
Anonymous
04/09/2021 10:01
Subject: Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Maybe, just maybe, the people on this listserve should ask how the students (and parents of the students) who will now be mandated to take these classes feel? Do they think it's a good idea? Are they excited? Hopeful? Upset? Outraged?
Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be centered around how those who are privileged by the current system feel about the changes without knowing how those who are disadvantaged feel....
Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be centered around how those who are privileged by the current system feel about the changes without knowing how those who are disadvantaged feel....
Anonymous
04/09/2021 09:57
Subject: Re:Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
Anonymous wrote:My DC is at Wilson. DC might/might not have qualified for AP History and/or English under the old system. DC had a wonderful ELA teacher at Deal, who worked with her, and eventually DC scored a 5 on ELA PARCC. However, a teacher at another school helpfully told DC “You should really have someone proofread your work, because your spelling mistakes are going to mean that people won’t take you seriously”.
So maybe DC would have been chosen for AP ELA or AP History. Maybe not.
But I am telling you that DC is a very strong participant class discussions in ELA and history. Always has been. I mention that only to reassure you guys that the presence of my DC in your child’s AP class is not going to detract from anyone’s academic experience, despite my DC’s erratic ANET scores.
Something else: recently, I overheard a discussion in one of DC’s classes. During the discussion, the killer point — I mean the 100-percent-on-target-point that synthesized social, political, and economic factors — was made by a student who had to be encouraged to participate. Whose language was halting. Who, I suspect, might not otherwise have been on the AP path at all.
If that student had not been in that honors class, the education of every child in that class would have been diminished.
Point taken. However, your child and the other student already had the option to take the AP course if they wanted. Teachers might encourage particular students, but no one was “chosen.”
Especially in the second case, the student should have had those ‘extra supports’ and counseling that made sure he ending up in the right place, despite halting English or shyness.
The lazy solution is to just throw all students in the same class and label it as super-duper advanced.
Anonymous
04/09/2021 09:34
Subject: Re:Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade
My DC is at Wilson. DC might/might not have qualified for AP History and/or English under the old system. DC had a wonderful ELA teacher at Deal, who worked with her, and eventually DC scored a 5 on ELA PARCC. However, a teacher at another school helpfully told DC “You should really have someone proofread your work, because your spelling mistakes are going to mean that people won’t take you seriously”.
So maybe DC would have been chosen for AP ELA or AP History. Maybe not.
But I am telling you that DC is a very strong participant class discussions in ELA and history. Always has been. I mention that only to reassure you guys that the presence of my DC in your child’s AP class is not going to detract from anyone’s academic experience, despite my DC’s erratic ANET scores.
Something else: recently, I overheard a discussion in one of DC’s classes. During the discussion, the killer point — I mean the 100-percent-on-target-point that synthesized social, political, and economic factors — was made by a student who had to be encouraged to participate. Whose language was halting. Who, I suspect, might not otherwise have been on the AP path at all.
If that student had not been in that honors class, the education of every child in that class would have been diminished.
So maybe DC would have been chosen for AP ELA or AP History. Maybe not.
But I am telling you that DC is a very strong participant class discussions in ELA and history. Always has been. I mention that only to reassure you guys that the presence of my DC in your child’s AP class is not going to detract from anyone’s academic experience, despite my DC’s erratic ANET scores.
Something else: recently, I overheard a discussion in one of DC’s classes. During the discussion, the killer point — I mean the 100-percent-on-target-point that synthesized social, political, and economic factors — was made by a student who had to be encouraged to participate. Whose language was halting. Who, I suspect, might not otherwise have been on the AP path at all.
If that student had not been in that honors class, the education of every child in that class would have been diminished.