Anonymous
06/22/2021 18:55
Subject: Re:Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:At least some schools are finally taking action. Here is one (granted not in DC)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/01/13/nyc-doe-racist-segregation-brooklyn-specialized-high-school-exam-gifted/2763549001/
Wow, what a terrible move.
All that will result from this is that any family of means (including black or hispanic) who can go to private, will do so. So all you've done is punish poor students (predominantly poor asian immigrants) and weaken public schools.
Also, in that article there's a visual under the heading "Racial disparity in New York City’s kindergarten classes and its gifted and talented programs" which purposefully puts White at the top even though Asian should be at the top. Unconscious bias, anyone?
Yeah, or they will leave the city entirely. Especially with crime going up. Good parents will just take their kids into the suburbs.
You just proved the point of bias and racism.
Anonymous
06/22/2021 12:17
Subject: Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tutoring is good, but its impact will be lower than you think.
Mainly the kids with motivated parents will want to stay for extra tutoring/school. These are the kids that are likely to succeed anyway.
The kids that have the most trouble come from households that don’t have the time, energy, or inclination to care about school.
They won’t make their kids sign up for tutoring.
Some say the problem starts even earlier, with parents not reading or talking enough to their toddlers or even worse neglecting or abusing them.
It sets kids behind even in kindergarten.
I’d say universal pre-K is more helpful than tutoring, but even that’s not a silver bullet.
We really just need to fix poverty. There’s a strong correlation between family income and educational success.
This. Move to Russia if you want socialism.
Your don’t “fix” poverty- that’s cAlled socialism. USA is capitalist last I checked.
You won't ever get rid of poverty, but you can reduce it. Capitalist societies are capable of that last I checked.
Again, there is a strong correlation between family income and educational success. We should be working toward reducing poverty and that in turn will boost educational outcomes.
Some people say 2/3s of learning occurs at home. There's only so much that you can do through schools.
There is a CORRELATION between income and educational success. That does not imply causation. You can't give poor people money and expect their kids to suddenly start doing well in school. It doesn't work that way. My family was economically stable because of my dad's work ethic, and he instilled that trait in all of his children, which is why we were successful in education. You cannot make people succeed in school without motivation. And motivation comes from learning that hard work pays off. Giving people handouts teaches precisely the opposite. "Son, you don't need to work hard in school, because the government will take care of you."
There are many poor people who work incredibly hard, but due to a variety of factors can't hold a well paying job or accumulate assets. Working hard is by no means a guarantee of success, and it's a stereotype to label poor people as lazy.
I also think you're looking at it the wrong way. Having a decent household income won't guarantee educational success, but poverty overwhelmingly results in a bad educational outcome.
It's well documented that poverty leads to all kinds things that negatively impact school readiness. Poor kids enter kindergarten already behind their peers, and it snowballs from there. School just doesn't matter as much if you're hungry and just trying to survive. This goes for the parents and the children. Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs comes into play here.
By reducing poverty you're increasing the number of kids who can actually focus on school. That in turn will lead to better educational outcomes.
Of course, reducing poverty isn't all that easy either, but I think we're relying too much on schools to magically fix our society. More focus should be spent on reducing poverty.
It could be an expanded EITC, some kind of baby bonds, higher minimum wage, job creation incentives, UBI, more affordable housing, expanded Medicaid/cheaper medical insurance, or something else. I'm not saying all those solutions will work, but whatever does a better job of reducing poverty will in turn lead to better educational outcomes.
Anonymous
06/21/2021 21:34
Subject: Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tutoring is good, but its impact will be lower than you think.
Mainly the kids with motivated parents will want to stay for extra tutoring/school. These are the kids that are likely to succeed anyway.
The kids that have the most trouble come from households that don’t have the time, energy, or inclination to care about school.
They won’t make their kids sign up for tutoring.
Some say the problem starts even earlier, with parents not reading or talking enough to their toddlers or even worse neglecting or abusing them.
It sets kids behind even in kindergarten.
I’d say universal pre-K is more helpful than tutoring, but even that’s not a silver bullet.
We really just need to fix poverty. There’s a strong correlation between family income and educational success.
This. Move to Russia if you want socialism.
Your don’t “fix” poverty- that’s cAlled socialism. USA is capitalist last I checked.
You won't ever get rid of poverty, but you can reduce it. Capitalist societies are capable of that last I checked.
Again, there is a strong correlation between family income and educational success. We should be working toward reducing poverty and that in turn will boost educational outcomes.
Some people say 2/3s of learning occurs at home. There's only so much that you can do through schools.
There is a CORRELATION between income and educational success. That does not imply causation. You can't give poor people money and expect their kids to suddenly start doing well in school. It doesn't work that way. My family was economically stable because of my dad's work ethic, and he instilled that trait in all of his children, which is why we were successful in education. You cannot make people succeed in school without motivation. And motivation comes from learning that hard work pays off. Giving people handouts teaches precisely the opposite. "Son, you don't need to work hard in school, because the government will take care of you."
Anonymous
06/21/2021 17:50
Subject: Re:Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:At least some schools are finally taking action. Here is one (granted not in DC)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/01/13/nyc-doe-racist-segregation-brooklyn-specialized-high-school-exam-gifted/2763549001/
Wow, what a terrible move.
All that will result from this is that any family of means (including black or hispanic) who can go to private, will do so. So all you've done is punish poor students (predominantly poor asian immigrants) and weaken public schools.
Also, in that article there's a visual under the heading "Racial disparity in New York City’s kindergarten classes and its gifted and talented programs" which purposefully puts White at the top even though Asian should be at the top. Unconscious bias, anyone?
More anti-Asian racism - from the left.
It is beyond me why Asians are not switching party affiliation in droves.
Anonymous
05/30/2021 19:13
Subject: Re:Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:At least some schools are finally taking action. Here is one (granted not in DC)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/01/13/nyc-doe-racist-segregation-brooklyn-specialized-high-school-exam-gifted/2763549001/
Wow, what a terrible move.
All that will result from this is that any family of means (including black or hispanic) who can go to private, will do so. So all you've done is punish poor students (predominantly poor asian immigrants) and weaken public schools.
Also, in that article there's a visual under the heading "Racial disparity in New York City’s kindergarten classes and its gifted and talented programs" which purposefully puts White at the top even though Asian should be at the top. Unconscious bias, anyone?
Yeah, or they will leave the city entirely. Especially with crime going up. Good parents will just take their kids into the suburbs.
Anonymous
05/30/2021 18:01
Subject: Re:Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:At least some schools are finally taking action. Here is one (granted not in DC)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/01/13/nyc-doe-racist-segregation-brooklyn-specialized-high-school-exam-gifted/2763549001/
Wow, what a terrible move.
All that will result from this is that any family of means (including black or hispanic) who can go to private, will do so. So all you've done is punish poor students (predominantly poor asian immigrants) and weaken public schools.
Also, in that article there's a visual under the heading "Racial disparity in New York City’s kindergarten classes and its gifted and talented programs" which purposefully puts White at the top even though Asian should be at the top. Unconscious bias, anyone?
Anonymous
05/30/2021 14:17
Subject: Re:Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:America is the land of opportunity, not of results. If parents aren't taking advantage of 12+ years of free education, their child's educational results will be in their hands. Getting your child to school every day isn't going to be enough for success, nor should it be. Too many parents expect schools to do it all. If you haven't taught your child manners at home, why do you think the school can do it? If you don't make your child do their homework, that's on you. If you don't communicate with teachers, that's also on you.
+1
I do agree that too much is asked of schools in their current iteration. Either drastically change schools, including longer days, more accountability for parents in terms of attendance, behavior, etc. or reduce the expectations you have of schools to cure all of the issues children have. Teachers are expected to be miracle workers but schools can’t hold families accountable at all.
Anonymous
05/30/2021 09:27
Subject: Re:Are AP-type classes racist?
America is the land of opportunity, not of results. If parents aren't taking advantage of 12+ years of free education, their child's educational results will be in their hands. Getting your child to school every day isn't going to be enough for success, nor should it be. Too many parents expect schools to do it all. If you haven't taught your child manners at home, why do you think the school can do it? If you don't make your child do their homework, that's on you. If you don't communicate with teachers, that's also on you.
Anonymous
05/30/2021 08:09
Subject: Re:Are AP-type classes racist?
At least some schools are finally taking action. Here is one (granted not in DC)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/01/13/nyc-doe-racist-segregation-brooklyn-specialized-high-school-exam-gifted/2763549001/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/01/13/nyc-doe-racist-segregation-brooklyn-specialized-high-school-exam-gifted/2763549001/
Anonymous
05/28/2021 23:16
Subject: Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:As I tell my kids:
Study hard, stay out of trouble, finish school, get a job... so you can pay for all the people who don’t.
Truth.
Anonymous
05/23/2021 21:40
Subject: Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:As I tell my kids:
Study hard, stay out of trouble, finish school, get a job... so you can pay for all the people who don’t.
lol
Anonymous
05/21/2021 09:16
Subject: Are AP-type classes racist?
As I tell my kids:
Study hard, stay out of trouble, finish school, get a job... so you can pay for all the people who don’t.
Study hard, stay out of trouble, finish school, get a job... so you can pay for all the people who don’t.
Anonymous
05/21/2021 09:15
Subject: Are AP-type classes racist?
Teach a man to fish, or give a man a fish from someone else.
What society do YOU want? What society is productive and growing? What society encourages what behaviors?
What society do YOU want? What society is productive and growing? What society encourages what behaviors?
Anonymous
05/19/2021 19:13
Subject: Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:I have mixed ancestry, but identify as AA. I’m also a mid-career public school teacher and have taught in a diverse variety of schools. I taught AP for three years and two of my own children have taken AP courses. Here’s my thoughts:
1) who gets selected to take AP and who gets support during the course can be shaped by systemic racism. My district had a huge problem with excluding students of color from these courses when selection was based on teacher recommendation. Once students were allowed to chose, the enrollment increased a lot temporarily. When they dropped a bit, surveys found that students of color withdrew because they felt unwelcome by the teachers and white peers. Not because the work was difficult or boring. Because they were asked if they were in the wrong classroom or not called upon unless the question was about race. When my older DD took AP, she was not invited to the elective support course that most of the white students were enrolled in. When she asked about it, the teacher told her that it was for students who needed to get a 5 to apply for highly competitive colleges and she could get into a state school or HBCU just fine with a 3. Of course, we had a meeting about that and the teacher said she meant no harm, it was just based on her experience with students like my daughter. She failed to clarify what she meant other than DD’s skin color. DD transfered to the other AP teacher and ended up earning a 5.
2) The tests themselves do not seem racially biased or class-biased in the way that the SAT can be.
The description about the above poster’s daughter indicates that she was subject to direct Racial bias -racist assumptions of one AP teacher and maybe others responsible for recommendations, but that she did very well when she transferred into the AP class of a different teacher. I don’t see, however, that this is evidence of “systemic racism.” That terms seems to be used today in many instances of just old fashion racial bias. The distinction matters. If individual bias is the problem, we need to address it. An “equity” remedy based on proportional representation relative to demographics (and I realize the above poster didn’t propose that) does not solve the problem. It only creates a virtual quota system that will likely result in more admission errors in both directions. If you want to take personal bias out the system, then don’t rely on teacher recommendations but rely on straight grades in other classes or standardized tests. Ironically, these are widely attacked as systemically racist as well.
Anonymous
05/19/2021 13:45
Subject: Are AP-type classes racist?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tutoring is good, but its impact will be lower than you think.
Mainly the kids with motivated parents will want to stay for extra tutoring/school. These are the kids that are likely to succeed anyway.
The kids that have the most trouble come from households that don’t have the time, energy, or inclination to care about school.
They won’t make their kids sign up for tutoring.
Some say the problem starts even earlier, with parents not reading or talking enough to their toddlers or even worse neglecting or abusing them.
It sets kids behind even in kindergarten.
I’d say universal pre-K is more helpful than tutoring, but even that’s not a silver bullet.
We really just need to fix poverty. There’s a strong correlation between family income and educational success.
This. Move to Russia if you want socialism.
Your don’t “fix” poverty- that’s cAlled socialism. USA is capitalist last I checked.
You won't ever get rid of poverty, but you can reduce it. Capitalist societies are capable of that last I checked.
Again, there is a strong correlation between family income and educational success. We should be working toward reducing poverty and that in turn will boost educational outcomes.
Some people say 2/3s of learning occurs at home. There's only so much that you can do through schools.