Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the college wants to boost their stats, it's how you mark the box, not what you write in the essay. They don't go reading each essay when generating their stats. The essay serves a different purpose, also beneficial though.

You need to look at the college. I'm half Asian and half White. I chose the race that worked best for me for each college, based on their stats. For example, Iowa State is 3.5% Asian so it's better to be Asian than white there: https://www.registrar.iastate.edu/sites/default/files/uploads/stats/minority/Fall%202020%20Multicultural%20reports.pdf

If you lie on a college application, they can kick you out. If you lie on the FAFSA or financial aid documents, it is a Federal offense. I think there is a lot of bad information being given, and most people either do not know or do not care about the actual rules, but feigning ignorance is not a defense.

How is it lying? I'm 50% Asian, and 50% White. Why can't I identify with either of those?

You can identify as Native American if that is how you identify. Who is the school to tell you how you identify? They won’t dispute that you identify as the race you put on your application. How could they disprove what a person identifies as?

Exactly why schools should require a copy of birth certificates and copies of driver's licenses. The races on those docs and admissions paperwork bette match.

Most birth certificates do not list race.

"Most" is incorrect. And for the ones that don't, there are plenty of government forms since childhood that require "race." Colleges could require any one of those forms too.

Even those don’t require race as they permit declining to answer or allow checking as many boxes as desired. Even my records are inconsistent in the same year.

In my own case, the easiest identity for me to give people is AA. I’m clearly a person with African ancestors. But I’m also clearly (to most AAs at least) someone with a considerable number of non-African ancestors. I often get the question “Where are you from?” from people of all races. My family history is pretty complicated with a lot of oral history that ended up being supported by 23andme. I don’t really want to discuss all that every time I have to identify. I tend to give a broader identity only when it is really relevant to whatever the person needs to know about me. My biological kids are even more mixed and I have tended to list them just as AA unless there is a medical issue. For us, biracial is AA. And phenotype is a funny thing. People almost never guess African ancestry for my racially ambiguous youngest daughter. People assume her sister is “Blasian”, but her eye shape and long hair are Native American genes. DH (not my kids’ biological father) is pretty much the same percentage white as me, but he’s very dark skinned and I am very light skinned.

Anonymous wrote:Colleges have called HS counselors and asked for more details on a student's hispanic background. In their minds, someone from Argentina or Spain is different from Mexican ancestry for example.

I actually prefer this approach in investigating rather than just accepting the full pay boarding school kid from NYC who can check Pacific Islander because of a 23 and me test.

Common App also allows (but does not require) the applicant to further specify the origin of the Hispanic ethnicity

Central America
Cuba
Mexico
Puerto Rico
South America
Spain
Other

(Other leads to a blank box where the applicant can write in)

From an NIH study

“ Third, the practice of using maternal race/ethnicity for the infant may not reflect U.S. demographics. Studies that use the NCHS convention will categorize non-Hispanic infants as white if the birth certificate reports that they have a white mother and African American father. However, parents can identify the same infant as white, African American, biracial, or some other race/ethnicity in surveys and administrative records. ”

Colleges have called HS counselors and asked for more details on a student's hispanic background. In their minds, someone from Argentina or Spain is different from Mexican ancestry for example.

I actually prefer this approach in investigating rather than just accepting the full pay boarding school kid from NYC who can check Pacific Islander because of a 23 and me test.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have birth certificates in our house from NY, IL, CO. None of them list race.

Also keep in mind that hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race.

Colleges do sometimes check with the high school about race and ethnicity listed on school forms.

Np. So 3 out of 50.....

Not relevant for OP, but with regard to hispanic, there is no relevant federal race category. Accordingly, to the extent a race were required to be indicated on a birth certificate, it would say white.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges want under represented minorities, not just any kind. Middle easterners aren't considered URM, so even though they have been subjected to prejudices it doesn't count for the college who wants to brag about their diversity. You're better off if you can find a great great grandparent who was pacific islander.

and yes, if you have any african roots, check off black. You'd surprised by how many rich, white kids are checking minority boxes under dubious situations.

Source?

Every UMC friend with a Spanish background I've ever known, for starters.

YEP!!!

And what about the African kids who get into all of the ivies every year?

NOPE!

Your point. There isn't one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges want under represented minorities, not just any kind. Middle easterners aren't considered URM, so even though they have been subjected to prejudices it doesn't count for the college who wants to brag about their diversity. You're better off if you can find a great great grandparent who was pacific islander.

and yes, if you have any african roots, check off black. You'd surprised by how many rich, white kids are checking minority boxes under dubious situations.

Source?

Every UMC friend with a Spanish background I've ever known, for starters.

YEP!!!

And what about the African kids who get into all of the ivies every year?

Anonymous wrote:We have birth certificates in our house from NY, IL, CO. None of them list race.

Also keep in mind that hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race.

Colleges do sometimes check with the high school about race and ethnicity listed on school forms.

Np. So 3 out of 50.....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is that someone who has a ton of privilege and 5% URM blood is very different than the 100% URM coming from a lower socioeconomic class setting who has faced much greater adversity and would bring more diversity to the college. That's where the college seems happy to take the full pay student and still keep its minority numbers at a target level. But you have to admit that those admits aren't fulfilling the mission of diversity. When schools look the other way, even if it's just a few admits, people are right to be pessimistic.

No, I disagree, and so do the colleges. Do you think they are dumb? Do you think you know more about what they need than they do? Of course not.

They seek racial balance so that kids don't avoid attending because they feel out of place. It happens. Just like a white kid might feel out of place at an excellent institution like Morehouse. Whether the white kids there had parents born in Sweden wouldn't matter.

They don't "look the other way". That's insulting and it's conspiracy thinking. They know more about it than you do. Way more. Stop pretending you've cracked a code. You haven't. Read a book on admissions policy. Start with "The Shape Of The River".

Yes, admissions officers would never lie.

Why would they lie?

More importantly, why would all admissions officer, past and present, lie? That's thousands of them. Are you claiming they are all conspiring to keep you from the truth?

There is no evidence your conspiracy theory is correct. None.

I go back to the "read a book" statement. Try it.

We have birth certificates in our house from NY, IL, CO. None of them list race.

Also keep in mind that hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race.

Colleges do sometimes check with the high school about race and ethnicity listed on school forms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the college wants to boost their stats, it's how you mark the box, not what you write in the essay. They don't go reading each essay when generating their stats. The essay serves a different purpose, also beneficial though.

You need to look at the college. I'm half Asian and half White. I chose the race that worked best for me for each college, based on their stats. For example, Iowa State is 3.5% Asian so it's better to be Asian than white there: https://www.registrar.iastate.edu/sites/default/files/uploads/stats/minority/Fall%202020%20Multicultural%20reports.pdf

If you lie on a college application, they can kick you out. If you lie on the FAFSA or financial aid documents, it is a Federal offense. I think there is a lot of bad information being given, and most people either do not know or do not care about the actual rules, but feigning ignorance is not a defense.

How is it lying? I'm 50% Asian, and 50% White. Why can't I identify with either of those?

You can identify as Native American if that is how you identify. Who is the school to tell you how you identify? They won’t dispute that you identify as the race you put on your application. How could they disprove what a person identifies as?

Exactly why schools should require a copy of birth certificates and copies of driver's licenses. The races on those docs and admissions paperwork bette match.

Most birth certificates do not list race.

"Most" is incorrect. And for the ones that don't, there are plenty of government forms since childhood that require "race." Colleges could require any one of those forms too.