I have no experience with wilderness programs, because after years of intensive therapy and getting worse with serious and scary issues my son was stabilized by day hospitalization. I was really scared by the program, which was in a rundown hospital in a decrepit neighborhood. But they finally helped my kid. I am lucky that the pandemic was also probably what he needed. But I want to throw in for day hospitalization here - you have way more ability to observe and control and talk with caregivers every day to make sure things are ok. I wish you luck op.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without commenting on the therapeutic side of things, a major concern I have is on the physical medical side of things, which WT and RTC are not equipped to deal with.

Many kids on WT develop things like giarda, pinworms, and untreated UTIs because of the conditions and how they are dealt with. Physical ailments generally are treated as attention seeking behavior. The same in RTC, causing delays in needed medical attention, which are worse in WT because of remoteness.

Do not send your child to WT or RTC unless you are 100% sure they are in tiptop medical and physical condition. Even then, caveat emptor.

I have quite a bit of experience with RTC and we did not find this to be true at all. My DC had daily interactions with a nurse and almost daily with a physician. Every physical issue was managed professionally and proactively. You can't paint all programs with such a broad brush which is exactly why this discussion *could* be helpful to parents in need.

DP. Thanks for this insight. It would be great if this thread could include tips for parents to look for - like daily contact with a nurse.

The biggest tip is to work with an educational consultant to find a reputable program.

As far as the "many kids on WT develop giarda (sp), etc...", that is just flat out wrong. You are choosing to believe the hype in the media rather than the facts. You are choosing to believe teenagers who are in mental crisis over therapists with PhD and master's degrees. You are falling victim to baseless claims.

Once again, tell us how and why we should believe your claims over our experiences and research with our children....You have never walked the road. You have never been in the situation where you knew if your child remained home, they and you would perish.

As far as the other parents who walk this road with me....know you are not alone. Whether it is wilderness or long term residential programs, being in this existence is still so surreal to me. I wish I had a simple answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without commenting on the therapeutic side of things, a major concern I have is on the physical medical side of things, which WT and RTC are not equipped to deal with.

Many kids on WT develop things like giarda, pinworms, and untreated UTIs because of the conditions and how they are dealt with. Physical ailments generally are treated as attention seeking behavior. The same in RTC, causing delays in needed medical attention, which are worse in WT because of remoteness.

Do not send your child to WT or RTC unless you are 100% sure they are in tiptop medical and physical condition. Even then, caveat emptor.

I have quite a bit of experience with RTC and we did not find this to be true at all. My DC had daily interactions with a nurse and almost daily with a physician. Every physical issue was managed professionally and proactively. You can't paint all programs with such a broad brush which is exactly why this discussion *could* be helpful to parents in need.

It would be helpful if you posted the program. I had a child with medical issues and used a consultant, and they felt only one RTC could deal with her epilepsy, which is not an uncommon illness. I was otherwise unimpressed by the RTC's wherewithal.

A psychiatrist is not the type of physician I would want dealing with physical medical conditions; way too many of these think somatic problems are symptoms of mental illness.

I am a PP who sent my kid to a RTC that was a hybrid of WT and RTC. In all of my research I didn’t find any programs who could handle a medically complicated kid. I found tons who could handle medical issues, but I don’t know about epilepsy.

The program we used had a nurse on staff daily including weekends. They met daily in addition to medication administration time. They also had weekly psychiatric appointments. Therapists (trained masters and doctorate level) were there daily including holidays from the morning into the evening. Most were extensively trained in the area of trauma. There were daily therapy sessions plus groups. For other medical issues, they had a relationship with a local doctor. My kid didn’t need that so I don’t have personal experience with how that worked. The nonpsychiatric med that they took was just refilled by the regular pediatrician.

My kid also went to school. The total length of treatment was 6 months and they did not fall behind educationally, even graduating on time despite an additional at least 8 months hospitalized where there was no school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without commenting on the therapeutic side of things, a major concern I have is on the physical medical side of things, which WT and RTC are not equipped to deal with.

Many kids on WT develop things like giarda, pinworms, and untreated UTIs because of the conditions and how they are dealt with. Physical ailments generally are treated as attention seeking behavior. The same in RTC, causing delays in needed medical attention, which are worse in WT because of remoteness.

Do not send your child to WT or RTC unless you are 100% sure they are in tiptop medical and physical condition. Even then, caveat emptor.

I have quite a bit of experience with RTC and we did not find this to be true at all. My DC had daily interactions with a nurse and almost daily with a physician. Every physical issue was managed professionally and proactively. You can't paint all programs with such a broad brush which is exactly why this discussion *could* be helpful to parents in need.

DP. Thanks for this insight. It would be great if this thread could include tips for parents to look for - like daily contact with a nurse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without commenting on the therapeutic side of things, a major concern I have is on the physical medical side of things, which WT and RTC are not equipped to deal with.

Many kids on WT develop things like giarda, pinworms, and untreated UTIs because of the conditions and how they are dealt with. Physical ailments generally are treated as attention seeking behavior. The same in RTC, causing delays in needed medical attention, which are worse in WT because of remoteness.

Do not send your child to WT or RTC unless you are 100% sure they are in tiptop medical and physical condition. Even then, caveat emptor.

I have quite a bit of experience with RTC and we did not find this to be true at all. My DC had daily interactions with a nurse and almost daily with a physician. Every physical issue was managed professionally and proactively. You can't paint all programs with such a broad brush which is exactly why this discussion *could* be helpful to parents in need.

It would be helpful if you posted the program. I had a child with medical issues and used a consultant, and they felt only one RTC could deal with her epilepsy, which is not an uncommon illness. I was otherwise unimpressed by the RTC's wherewithal.

A psychiatrist is not the type of physician I would want dealing with physical medical conditions; way too many of these think somatic problems are symptoms of mental illness.

Anonymous wrote:Without commenting on the therapeutic side of things, a major concern I have is on the physical medical side of things, which WT and RTC are not equipped to deal with.

Many kids on WT develop things like giarda, pinworms, and untreated UTIs because of the conditions and how they are dealt with. Physical ailments generally are treated as attention seeking behavior. The same in RTC, causing delays in needed medical attention, which are worse in WT because of remoteness.

Do not send your child to WT or RTC unless you are 100% sure they are in tiptop medical and physical condition. Even then, caveat emptor.

I have quite a bit of experience with RTC and we did not find this to be true at all. My DC had daily interactions with a nurse and almost daily with a physician. Every physical issue was managed professionally and proactively. You can't paint all programs with such a broad brush which is exactly why this discussion *could* be helpful to parents in need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you PP. They haven't offered an alternative because there isn't one when you get to that point. The poster who is lambasting wilderness programs is woefully misinformed about what quality programs exist and believes the Paris Hilton's of the world. Don't get me wrong. Abuse exists. But abuse exists everywhere sadly. And I would say it is even worse at the poorly staffed residential facilities. Sigh. I wish I had an answer. My heart hurts every day.

how long do you think you can keep this line up? there are hundreds/thousands of Wilderness “Therapy” program survivor and their friends/relatives (like me) who know it’s not true. if there is a quality program name it, and we’ll see.

And we’re still waiting for the alternative.

the alternative is “don’t send your kid there.”

No not an alternative. When your kid needs help and your kid and family are in danger, no treatment is not the answer. I stand by my decision and thank God we had the means to do it.

To the parent that sent your child to WT, I give you a lot of credit for being as polite as you have been. I wrote many posts in response to the “do nothing” poster but I had to delete them. This poster just has no clue. No clue about our kids, no first hand knowledge of what it’s like to live in fear of your kid killing themselves, no idea of the lack of alternatives, and no idea about the family involvement. That impact letter sucked to write

I love the way the poster offers the alternative is not to send your kid there. Where do they go to get help? WT parent —don’t waste any more of your time with this clueless poster. Those of us that have been there support you. We know how gut wrenching this decision is, how much all of this impacts the family unit, and the beauty of being on the other side. Kudos for doing what was needed for your child. I see you.

there is no f’in way I would send my suicidal child to wilderness “therapy.” because it is not actually therapy. and I know this because my close relative was sent there. the actual cluelessness is you claiming that you status as a parent somehow negates all the evidence and other people’s knowledge. the *whole problem* is that parents are so desperate or misguided or dysfunctional that they choose these places. not all residential, not all residential that includes outdoor adventures, but on the whole, the industry is poorly regulated and full of documented abuses and bad actors.

+1

Without commenting on the therapeutic side of things, a major concern I have is on the physical medical side of things, which WT and RTC are not equipped to deal with.

Many kids on WT develop things like giarda, pinworms, and untreated UTIs because of the conditions and how they are dealt with. Physical ailments generally are treated as attention seeking behavior. The same in RTC, causing delays in needed medical attention, which are worse in WT because of remoteness.

Do not send your child to WT or RTC unless you are 100% sure they are in tiptop medical and physical condition. Even then, caveat emptor.

PP, did you or do you have a suicidal child? I am happy for you if you haven't, because I have had that experience, and I would not wish it on ANYONE. Trips to the ER, long waits for psychiatric beds, poor follow-up--the list goes on.

I am sorry that your relative had a difficult and traumatic experience. But I believe that the parents who come to this board looking for feedback or advice are acting from a sincere desire to do the best for their children.

Please let those of who have gone through or are going through the difficult decisions that come with a suicidal or self-destructive child that the grace and understanding we need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you PP. They haven't offered an alternative because there isn't one when you get to that point. The poster who is lambasting wilderness programs is woefully misinformed about what quality programs exist and believes the Paris Hilton's of the world. Don't get me wrong. Abuse exists. But abuse exists everywhere sadly. And I would say it is even worse at the poorly staffed residential facilities. Sigh. I wish I had an answer. My heart hurts every day.

how long do you think you can keep this line up? there are hundreds/thousands of Wilderness “Therapy” program survivor and their friends/relatives (like me) who know it’s not true. if there is a quality program name it, and we’ll see.

And we’re still waiting for the alternative.

the alternative is “don’t send your kid there.”

No not an alternative. When your kid needs help and your kid and family are in danger, no treatment is not the answer. I stand by my decision and thank God we had the means to do it.

bad treatment is worse than no trearment. obviously. the fact that you keep on engaging in this logical fallacy makes me doubt your truthfulness, maybe to yourself as well. clearly you believe that wilderness therapy actually worked for your particular child. if so, name the program, how they provide therepeutic and medicsl services, how long your child was there, and what your child is doing now. what I am saying is that the industry is full of abuse and bad actors. that doesn’t preclude there being good residential programs that use outdoor activities therepeutically in an appropriate way. so explain it, or not. but you can’t rebut the lengthy and horrific documented history of wilderness “therapy” just by saying “we had no other choice!!!”

Anonymous wrote:My brother credits outward bound with saving his life. He doesn’t like camping now though.

outward bound makes VERY clear they are not for kids with serious active mental health issues, and that they do not keep kids against their will. they are also short courses, just 2-3 weeks. totally different from a place like TRAILS.

https://www.outwardbound.org/intercept/what-is-intercept/

NOLS is another outward bound type program. I had a friend who did it in HS and she said it was pretty intense but good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you PP. They haven't offered an alternative because there isn't one when you get to that point. The poster who is lambasting wilderness programs is woefully misinformed about what quality programs exist and believes the Paris Hilton's of the world. Don't get me wrong. Abuse exists. But abuse exists everywhere sadly. And I would say it is even worse at the poorly staffed residential facilities. Sigh. I wish I had an answer. My heart hurts every day.

how long do you think you can keep this line up? there are hundreds/thousands of Wilderness “Therapy” program survivor and their friends/relatives (like me) who know it’s not true. if there is a quality program name it, and we’ll see.

And we’re still waiting for the alternative.

the alternative is “don’t send your kid there.”

No not an alternative. When your kid needs help and your kid and family are in danger, no treatment is not the answer. I stand by my decision and thank God we had the means to do it.

To the parent that sent your child to WT, I give you a lot of credit for being as polite as you have been. I wrote many posts in response to the “do nothing” poster but I had to delete them. This poster just has no clue. No clue about our kids, no first hand knowledge of what it’s like to live in fear of your kid killing themselves, no idea of the lack of alternatives, and no idea about the family involvement. That impact letter sucked to write

I love the way the poster offers the alternative is not to send your kid there. Where do they go to get help? WT parent —don’t waste any more of your time with this clueless poster. Those of us that have been there support you. We know how gut wrenching this decision is, how much all of this impacts the family unit, and the beauty of being on the other side. Kudos for doing what was needed for your child. I see you.

there is no f’in way I would send my suicidal child to wilderness “therapy.” because it is not actually therapy. and I know this because my close relative was sent there. the actual cluelessness is you claiming that you status as a parent somehow negates all the evidence and other people’s knowledge. the *whole problem* is that parents are so desperate or misguided or dysfunctional that they choose these places. not all residential, not all residential that includes outdoor adventures, but on the whole, the industry is poorly regulated and full of documented abuses and bad actors.

What type of school is your child in now? Has the local district sent him for the 8 weeks of testing? What was the diagnosis? Where was he placed?

My brother credits outward bound with saving his life. He doesn’t like camping now though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you PP. They haven't offered an alternative because there isn't one when you get to that point. The poster who is lambasting wilderness programs is woefully misinformed about what quality programs exist and believes the Paris Hilton's of the world. Don't get me wrong. Abuse exists. But abuse exists everywhere sadly. And I would say it is even worse at the poorly staffed residential facilities. Sigh. I wish I had an answer. My heart hurts every day.

how long do you think you can keep this line up? there are hundreds/thousands of Wilderness “Therapy” program survivor and their friends/relatives (like me) who know it’s not true. if there is a quality program name it, and we’ll see.

And we’re still waiting for the alternative.

the alternative is “don’t send your kid there.”

No not an alternative. When your kid needs help and your kid and family are in danger, no treatment is not the answer. I stand by my decision and thank God we had the means to do it.

To the parent that sent your child to WT, I give you a lot of credit for being as polite as you have been. I wrote many posts in response to the “do nothing” poster but I had to delete them. This poster just has no clue. No clue about our kids, no first hand knowledge of what it’s like to live in fear of your kid killing themselves, no idea of the lack of alternatives, and no idea about the family involvement. That impact letter sucked to write

I love the way the poster offers the alternative is not to send your kid there. Where do they go to get help? WT parent —don’t waste any more of your time with this clueless poster. Those of us that have been there support you. We know how gut wrenching this decision is, how much all of this impacts the family unit, and the beauty of being on the other side. Kudos for doing what was needed for your child. I see you.