Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Male biglaw partner here. My wife is SAHM, it's fairly common for the male partners at the firm to have SAHMs. Female partners are more likely to be divorced.

Women lose respect for their husbands when they stay home. They may not say it out loud, they may not even want to feel that way. Seems to be some type of jealousy/envy that the male partners have SAHM and can focus solely on work while women have to do a second shift at home. That dynamic, more than any other I have seen, accounts for the wage and advancement gap and probably the divorce gap too.

Until women are willing to accept (and men can truly accomplish) the male SAH role, the gap will persist when kids come along.

Who cares what your job is? Perhaps things would change if men like yourself put more effort into staying home with their kids, demanded things like paternity leave.

I was a little snippy with you , but to the bold

I am not surprised more female partners are divorced, because as you said they do the same job as you at work, but then come home and do all the work there. Is it envy or is it frustration? I don't disagree that Americans ( men and women) still have antiquated ideas about men staying at home, but why is it all on the women to change that? Why is it women's responsibility to do all the work at home and take on societal change?

Why can't you or other men take can active role, in advocating for men to stay home if they want? Would that advocacy be more effective with men at the helm, with men supporting them?

I understand your frustrations but they are misdirected.

My firm like all forms are fine if men what to daddy track. As long as they bring value to the firm, we will retain them and pay them their worth, just as we would any other person who is scaling back. We have done this but it's obviously more rare. I do not find any animosity from full time equity partners towards men who scale back. If anything, there may be a bit of jealousy since many of us are like me, sole breadwinners who don't have an option of scaling back and relying on a spouse's income.

To me, it's women that have the problem with this, at least romantically. Proof is in the multiple message boards here from women who won't date men without certain income requirements, etc. Or the SAHMs groups that exclude SAHDs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Male biglaw partner here. My wife is SAHM, it's fairly common for the male partners at the firm to have SAHMs. Female partners are more likely to be divorced.

Women lose respect for their husbands when they stay home. They may not say it out loud, they may not even want to feel that way. Seems to be some type of jealousy/envy that the male partners have SAHM and can focus solely on work while women have to do a second shift at home. That dynamic, more than any other I have seen, accounts for the wage and advancement gap and probably the divorce gap too.

Until women are willing to accept (and men can truly accomplish) the male SAH role, the gap will persist when kids come along.

Who cares what your job is? Perhaps things would change if men like yourself put more effort into staying home with their kids, demanded things like paternity leave.

I was a little snippy with you , but to the bold

I am not surprised more female partners are divorced, because as you said they do the same job as you at work, but then come home and do all the work there. Is it envy or is it frustration? I don't disagree that Americans ( men and women) still have antiquated ideas about men staying at home, but why is it all on the women to change that? Why is it women's responsibility to do all the work at home and take on societal change?

Why can't you or other men take can active role, in advocating for men to stay home if they want? Would that advocacy be more effective with men at the helm, with men supporting them?

* Women supporting them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Male biglaw partner here. My wife is SAHM, it's fairly common for the male partners at the firm to have SAHMs. Female partners are more likely to be divorced.

Women lose respect for their husbands when they stay home. They may not say it out loud, they may not even want to feel that way. Seems to be some type of jealousy/envy that the male partners have SAHM and can focus solely on work while women have to do a second shift at home. That dynamic, more than any other I have seen, accounts for the wage and advancement gap and probably the divorce gap too.

Until women are willing to accept (and men can truly accomplish) the male SAH role, the gap will persist when kids come along.

Who cares what your job is? Perhaps things would change if men like yourself put more effort into staying home with their kids, demanded things like paternity leave.

I was a little snippy with you , but to the bold

I am not surprised more female partners are divorced, because as you said they do the same job as you at work, but then come home and do all the work there. Is it envy or is it frustration? I don't disagree that Americans ( men and women) still have antiquated ideas about men staying at home, but why is it all on the women to change that? Why is it women's responsibility to do all the work at home and take on societal change?

Why can't you or other men take can active role, in advocating for men to stay home if they want? Would that advocacy be more effective with men at the helm, with men supporting them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is the real issue. You don't want to hear that some women are happier staying home and appreciate having the option. You don't want to hear it is best for some families. I'm sorry you have a difficult marriage situation but its up to you to fix it or get out of it.

DP. Not OP, but I don't get that from OP at all. Are you sure you aren't just projecting? I am honestly confused by your response. It seems kind of bizarre. I have done both SAHM and WOHM (and student mom, and WAHM), so maybe I am just not as defensive, but I really don't.get your response here.

Read the subject and many of the other comments. They are very negative to men and women and it gets old.

No, you are projecting your own bs. Lots of thoughtful pps on here. This is a societal problem in the US. Just because some women are happy being SAHMs doesn’t change the fact that there are societal problems and expectations that unfairly and preferentially impact women. And the ripple effect is that they affect everyone whether you want to be a parent or not. The bulk of the negative effects are on women but these inequities also affect men who might want to be primary caregivers or suffer under the stress of being the sole breadwinner.

It is sad that we cannot try to talk about these problems without some SAHMs taking it personally (You needn’t)or some people even trying to deny them outright.

OP again all of this. It's just sad that people would rather put energy into mommy wars than discussing things, that might initiate change and benefit all of our lives, and the lives of our families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is the real issue. You don't want to hear that some women are happier staying home and appreciate having the option. You don't want to hear it is best for some families. I'm sorry you have a difficult marriage situation but its up to you to fix it or get out of it.

DP. Not OP, but I don't get that from OP at all. Are you sure you aren't just projecting? I am honestly confused by your response. It seems kind of bizarre. I have done both SAHM and WOHM (and student mom, and WAHM), so maybe I am just not as defensive, but I really don't.get your response here.

Read the subject and many of the other comments. They are very negative to men and women and it gets old.

No, you are projecting your own bs. Lots of thoughtful pps on here. This is a societal problem in the US. Just because some women are happy being SAHMs doesn’t change the fact that there are societal problems and expectations that unfairly and preferentially impact women. And the ripple effect is that they affect everyone whether you want to be a parent or not. The bulk of the negative effects are on women but these inequities also affect men who might want to be primary caregivers or suffer under the stress of being the sole breadwinner.

It is sad that we cannot try to talk about these problems without some SAHMs taking it personally (You needn’t)or some people even trying to deny them outright.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of men want Stepford wives: Disney robots who will cook, clean, take care of children, and have sex, but don’t actually have any wants or needs of their own.

Yep. AI needs to quickly evolve so men can get their perfect robot wife.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is the real issue. You don't want to hear that some women are happier staying home and appreciate having the option. You don't want to hear it is best for some families. I'm sorry you have a difficult marriage situation but its up to you to fix it or get out of it.

DP. Not OP, but I don't get that from OP at all. Are you sure you aren't just projecting? I am honestly confused by your response. It seems kind of bizarre. I have done both SAHM and WOHM (and student mom, and WAHM), so maybe I am just not as defensive, but I really don't.get your response here.

OP here. The poster you are responding to is someone who a) didn't bother reading the thread just saw SAHM in the title and want to stary mommy war drams b( just a troll.

Either way, it's best to ignore. As I think I have made it very clear that both are valid and fulfilling choices, especially when the woman is the one choosing the path.

My question is related to why is it that it seems to be assumed by men that their wife will be the one to take the career hit to be the SAHP. Especially when she has an established career same as him, and has not given the indication she wants to stay home. Like why is it nor presumed daycare or nanny, or even he will be the one staying home.

Outside of a few trolls, and people who just want to have mommy wars. I think we have had a good discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is the real issue. You don't want to hear that some women are happier staying home and appreciate having the option. You don't want to hear it is best for some families. I'm sorry you have a difficult marriage situation but its up to you to fix it or get out of it.

DP. Not OP, but I don't get that from OP at all. Are you sure you aren't just projecting? I am honestly confused by your response. It seems kind of bizarre. I have done both SAHM and WOHM (and student mom, and WAHM), so maybe I am just not as defensive, but I really don't.get your response here.

Read the subject and many of the other comments. They are very negative to men and women and it gets old.

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is the real issue. You don't want to hear that some women are happier staying home and appreciate having the option. You don't want to hear it is best for some families. I'm sorry you have a difficult marriage situation but its up to you to fix it or get out of it.

Op here. You are clearly just a troll that didn't read the thread and want to start mommy war and the kind of drama. Bye!

Anonymous wrote:I didn't think that was normal at all in the DC area or most other major metro areas. The norm is that both parents continue to work and pay for daycare. I don't know a single couple where the woman became a SAHM after having a child.

How old are you? I’m 50 and I know a lot of SAHM’s in the DC area. Many had good careers before kids, but knew that when they had children, they wanted to be home with them. DH and I talked about it while dating and it was important to me to find someone who was ok with me taking time out of the workforce to raise a family. We planned for it from the very beginning.

Before starting a family, we both worked hard, lived frugally, and saved as much as we could. I envy friends with nicer houses, cars, and vacations, but I’m happy with my choice.

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is the real issue. You don't want to hear that some women are happier staying home and appreciate having the option. You don't want to hear it is best for some families. I'm sorry you have a difficult marriage situation but its up to you to fix it or get out of it.

DP. Not OP, but I don't get that from OP at all. Are you sure you aren't just projecting? I am honestly confused by your response. It seems kind of bizarre. I have done both SAHM and WOHM (and student mom, and WAHM), so maybe I am just not as defensive, but I really don't.get your response here.

OP, what is the real issue. You don't want to hear that some women are happier staying home and appreciate having the option. You don't want to hear it is best for some families. I'm sorry you have a difficult marriage situation but its up to you to fix it or get out of it.

Anonymous wrote:My DH doesn’t expect me to quit my highly paid job. He also doesn’t expect me to manage the kids’ calendars, dr and dentist appointments, play dates, outgrown shoes and clothes, house maintenance, etc.

He just also doesn’t expect him to. He floats through life oblivious to everyone managing things for him.

I guess I’d trade him for SAHM-demanding husband at this point.

This is why I had to take a long career break. I was able to return to the workforce and pick up where I left off. I have to admit that this was only possible because DH made 4x what I made so it made financial sense. Now that my kids are grown I don't regret the career break.

Anonymous wrote:Male biglaw partner here. My wife is SAHM, it's fairly common for the male partners at the firm to have SAHMs. Female partners are more likely to be divorced.

Women lose respect for their husbands when they stay home. They may not say it out loud, they may not even want to feel that way. Seems to be some type of jealousy/envy that the male partners have SAHM and can focus solely on work while women have to do a second shift at home. That dynamic, more than any other I have seen, accounts for the wage and advancement gap and probably the divorce gap too.

Until women are willing to accept (and men can truly accomplish) the male SAH role, the gap will persist when kids come along.

Who cares what your job is? Perhaps things would change if men like yourself put more effort into staying home with their kids, demanded things like paternity leave.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before we married, I was explicit that I wanted to keep working after kids and DH was on board. Then we had kids and DH begged me to stay home. I cut back, then SAH for a year, then went back PT and am now in a FT+ job because my company was acquired and I couldn’t stay PT. Our lives are hectic and our home is filled with people - nanny, cleaning lady, grandparents helping. Things fall through the cracks, and neither of us is functioning at full capacity in these pandemic times.

I completely understand the simplicity and efficiency of having one parent stay home. It doesn’t matter which; it’s just more efficient to specialize. And my DH is a full co parent, every bit as bonded and nurturing as I am.

If you don't mind me asking, why did your DH beg you to stay home?

He had a SAHM for a mom and he knew that our lives would be smoother and less stressful if I stayed at home. I would be kinda depressed, though, and my job is super interesting and pays well. We throw money at everything from cooking to childcare to housekeeping. It takes a lot of arranging and logistics that are utterly foreign to the happy childhood he had. I know he wishes for a simpler arrangement. But we’re in it together and both happy enough.

Did he care that you were depressed at home? Did he push back on you returning to work becaue of your depression? Did he consider that he could be the stay at home parent?