Anonymous
07/02/2020 12:08
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.
Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.
To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.
If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person
WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.
Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.
Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.
Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.
Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.
It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.
As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.
Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.
Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.
There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.
Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.
Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“
You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.
1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.
At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.
1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.
People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:
“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“
Applicants =\= admits.
The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 11:31
Subject: Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I have heard of colleges rescinding offers if they know that you lied ie: it's is relatively easy to see if someone is Asian or not.
Who says anything about lying? There’s might be a box a student can check declining to answer.
Lying by omission.
If colleges are giving an option not to disclose by providing a box to check off declining to answer, that’s not lying.
If you were a Jew, would you tell the nazis your ethnicity?
Anonymous
07/02/2020 11:26
Subject: Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I have heard of colleges rescinding offers if they know that you lied ie: it's is relatively easy to see if someone is Asian or not.
Who says anything about lying? There’s might be a box a student can check declining to answer.
Lying by omission.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 11:17
Subject: Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:
I have heard of colleges rescinding offers if they know that you lied ie: it's is relatively easy to see if someone is Asian or not.
Who says anything about lying? There’s might be a box a student can check declining to answer.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 11:15
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.
Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.
To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.
If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person
WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.
Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.
Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.
Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.
Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.
It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.
As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.
Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.
Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.
There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.
Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.
Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“
You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.
1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.
At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.
1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 11:10
Subject: Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
I have heard of colleges rescinding offers if they know that you lied ie: it's is relatively easy to see if someone is Asian or not.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 11:06
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.
Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.
To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.
If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person
WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.
Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.
Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.
Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.
Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.
It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.
As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.
Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.
Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.
There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.
Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.
Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“
You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.
1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.
At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 11:03
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.
Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.
To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.
If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person
WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.
Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.
Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.
Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.
Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.
It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.
As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.
Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.
Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.
There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.
Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.
Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“
You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.
1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 10:48
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.
Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.
To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.
If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person
WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.
Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.
Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.
Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.
Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.
It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.
As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.
Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.
Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.
There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.
Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.
Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“
You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 10:32
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Since all humans emerged from Africa, you can just claim you are African American. It is not like they do DNA testing on the applicants. Plus, if they ever questioned an applicants heritage (i.e. brown paper bag test), that sounds ripe for a lawsuit.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 09:12
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My friend whose son is half-Chinese said he is going to identify as white on his college applications.
Ours too. Fortunately their last name (which is Asian) could also be Scandinavian.
I’m asian. DS has a white last name and the first name doesn’t give any details.
Probably smart.
Any elite school will expect an interview
I’ve seen biracial kids who are whose background you cannot tell even in person.
This reminds me of the famous philosopher named Ludwig Wittgenstein. He came from one of the richest families in all of Europe. He used his family fortune to negotiate with the Nazis to re-classify his family from Jews to Germans. He succeeded by donating nearly all of his family fortune to the Nazi war machine
Anonymous
07/02/2020 08:59
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My friend whose son is half-Chinese said he is going to identify as white on his college applications.
Ours too. Fortunately their last name (which is Asian) could also be Scandinavian.
I’m asian. DS has a white last name and the first name doesn’t give any details.
Probably smart.
Any elite school will expect an interview
Anonymous
07/02/2020 08:21
Subject: Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:New poster here:
How about:
Children of one race,
Adopted by parents of another race (last name reflects parents’ (well, father’s) race,
Adopted not as infants but a few years later as young children,
With physical special needs,
Later found to also have learning disabilities.
These are my kids and where do they fit in for purposes such as college applications?
(After mannnny years and expenses and tears and specialists, appear “normal” (whatever that means) for all intents and purposes).
Don’t students have the option of declining to answer the race question?
I do not know? We are not quite at this stage yet but I have been wondering? And, if so, should they do that?
They can decline it but declining to answer implies that the applicant is of a race that is not advantageous to admissions. Same idea with (covid aside), test optional admissions in previous years. And admissions will tell if your Asian from your birthplace, last name, appearance in an interview, siblings’ names, religious ECs, and more. Same thing with test optional admissions (pre-pandemic). If you don’t submit your score, it’s assumed that the score is bad.
I think the PP’s situation involves kids whose biographical info is ambiguous as is often the case with biracial or adopted children. And PP is asking if should these children simply not answer the question. It’s a tough situation. But giving Harvard the Info they are asking is like a Jew telling nazis what his or her ethnicity is. Excuse the analogy.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 08:08
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My friend whose son is half-Chinese said he is going to identify as white on his college applications.
Ours too. Fortunately their last name (which is Asian) could also be Scandinavian.
I’m asian. DS has a white last name and the first name doesn’t give any details.
Probably smart.
Anonymous
07/02/2020 08:04
Subject: Re:Admitting you are Asian (college apps)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.
Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.
To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.
If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person
WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.
Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.
Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.
Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.
Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.
It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.
As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.
Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.
Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.
There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.
Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.
Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“