Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are so many children having 2E? Is it real or the parents bought the doctors out?

Frankly I think it’s the nature of being gifted. I think you’d be hard pressed to find many that aren’t.

Also, some children are diagnosed with the learning disability first. During that process, they are given intelligence tests. That is when some parents and teachers identify that the child is also highly intelligent. Parents usually already have an idea, but the disability can mask it in a classroom of 25-30 kids.

Most kids with a learning disability are not gifted, just like most kids without a learning disability are not gifted.

Anonymous wrote:Why are so many children having 2E? Is it real or the parents bought the doctors out?

The fact that anyone thinks that a doctor can be bought out to diagnosis a child with a serious medical or mental health condition is sick. What's wrong with you? 2e is not a diagnosis. ASD and ADHD are diagnoses and all parents of these kids wish to hell that their children did not have these debilitating issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are so many children having 2E? Is it real or the parents bought the doctors out?

it is real, but not as many students as you think.

It's both. There are better diagnostics and better interventions, so it's more likely that 2E kids will be identified. There are also parents who game the system and shop for a diagnosis for their kids. Some very affluent areas have 1/4 or 1/3 of their students on 504 plans, because the parents want the extra time for the ACT or SAT.

You need to get your facts straight. The SAT test administrators used to allow kids with ADHD to have extra time years ago. Many of those children with ADHD also have comorbidities like slow processing, working memory issues, dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc. But many of them are highly intelligent, their brain just works differently. Unfortunately, now they have tightened up the policies so badly that kids who truly need the extra time have to go through so many more hoops in order to get the extra time. It often involves ensuring that you have a recent neuropshych exam that proves the slow processing (costs thousands of dollars) and proving that the child has been receiving the extra time accommodation in regular school. Just having an ADHD diagnosis does not qualify you for the extra time allowance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GBRS is the most important factor. Then CogAT Q. Median CogAT V score for admitted kids is around 119.

This is interesting given common wisdom on DCUM, which suggests that kids must score at least in the upper 120s to have a real shot at admission. I'd bet the DCUM advice is pretty accurate for wealthy schools (representing the vast majority of DCUM posters) but substantially less so for higher-FARMs schools. For example, a student who scores a 115 on the CogAT verbal in a high-FARMs school where the average CogAT verbal score is only 95, arguably has a much greater need for differentiation than a student who scores 115 in a wealthy school where the average is 110.

We live in a "non-TJ-mania" area and our center seems to be one of the better ones, leading me to think that our center population has a number of in-pool admits instead of parent-referred admits with lower stats.

Those mean NNAT and Cogat scores were surprising. They did confirm all the complaints about how kids are on grade level or below.

Don't assume parent referrals are actually low averages--we parent-referred our child who didn't take the NNAT because we weren't in the district and she scored 1 point below the cut-off on the Cogat. But she had a 145 WISC.

Same here. We parent referred with a 149 WISC. CogAT was 131. Child is 2E and had a low GBRS. Teacher later confided the principal and AART lowered it. Work samples submitted my the school were really bad. Happy to report DC got in on appeal and is going great.

There is really no data here to support that parent referrals or appeal get in kids who shouldn’t be there. Maybe that is worth looking into but this data doesn’t delve into that enough to draw any conclusions. And really, I see no reason a kid who gets a legitimate high WISC should not be in, it’s a better measure than NNAT or COGAT. I doubt those are the kids “watering down” AAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are so many children having 2E? Is it real or the parents bought the doctors out?

it is real, but not as many students as you think.

It's both. There are better diagnostics and better interventions, so it's more likely that 2E kids will be identified. There are also parents who game the system and shop for a diagnosis for their kids. Some very affluent areas have 1/4 or 1/3 of their students on 504 plans, because the parents want the extra time for the ACT or SAT.

Is that cheating? I have no problem with prepping, but this is something different.

Anonymous wrote:Why are so many children having 2E? Is it real or the parents bought the doctors out?

Frankly I think it’s the nature of being gifted. I think you’d be hard pressed to find many that aren’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are so many children having 2E? Is it real or the parents bought the doctors out?

it is real, but not as many students as you think.

It's both. There are better diagnostics and better interventions, so it's more likely that 2E kids will be identified. There are also parents who game the system and shop for a diagnosis for their kids. Some very affluent areas have 1/4 or 1/3 of their students on 504 plans, because the parents want the extra time for the ACT or SAT.

Anonymous wrote:Why are so many children having 2E? Is it real or the parents bought the doctors out?

it is real, but not as many students as you think.

Yes, 2E kids who were parent referred and have gifted level WISCs belong in AAP. They are the exception and not the rule. Most parent referrals are upper middle class kids who are above average with parents who are highly invested in the kids' education. These kids are not the intended recipients of AAP and are only getting selected because their privileged upbringing makes them seem more advanced than they are, and their parents have the resources to game the system.

This level of parent input into AAP placement is a huge equity problem, since equally talented kids from poorer families don't have the same resources to look good to the selection panel.

Why are so many children having 2E? Is it real or the parents bought the doctors out?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GBRS is the most important factor. Then CogAT Q. Median CogAT V score for admitted kids is around 119.

This is interesting given common wisdom on DCUM, which suggests that kids must score at least in the upper 120s to have a real shot at admission. I'd bet the DCUM advice is pretty accurate for wealthy schools (representing the vast majority of DCUM posters) but substantially less so for higher-FARMs schools. For example, a student who scores a 115 on the CogAT verbal in a high-FARMs school where the average CogAT verbal score is only 95, arguably has a much greater need for differentiation than a student who scores 115 in a wealthy school where the average is 110.

We live in a "non-TJ-mania" area and our center seems to be one of the better ones, leading me to think that our center population has a number of in-pool admits instead of parent-referred admits with lower stats.

Those mean NNAT and Cogat scores were surprising. They did confirm all the complaints about how kids are on grade level or below.

Don't assume parent referrals are actually low averages--we parent-referred our child who didn't take the NNAT because we weren't in the district and she scored 1 point below the cut-off on the Cogat. But she had a 145 WISC.

Same here. We parent referred with a 149 WISC. CogAT was 131. Child is 2E and had a low GBRS. Teacher later confided the principal and AART lowered it. Work samples submitted my the school were really bad. Happy to report DC got in on appeal and is going great.

Anonymous wrote:How does one prove that? Whenever I asked my child what she was doing in her LA class, she said that she was reading to others. Nothing ever comes home. It's like school is a black box. When I checked her writing notebook at the end of the year when it finally came home, there was very little writing in it and no feedback on any of it. When I asked about homework, I was told all schools are getting rid of it when I know that's not true district-wide.

I would only sound like, "my little snowflake isn't getting any attention!" and promptly be brushed off.

Um.. That's how it's been for all of my kids, even at the AAP center. According to my kids, they've spent tons of time reading to themselves every day and tons of time on dreambox. They seem to have daily tasks that need to be completed, but they can complete them in much less than the allotted time. Are they being ignored? Maybe. Are they exaggerating the amount of free reading, computer, and general free time they have each day in school? That's possible too.

There's never any feedback. Even now, with distance learning, my kids have had a lot of cool assignments that the teacher required them to turn in, but there hasn't been any feedback. Everything just disappears into the abyss. My kids have been through several different schools, and they've all been black boxes. FCPS hates transparency.

How does one prove that? Whenever I asked my child what she was doing in her LA class, she said that she was reading to others. Nothing ever comes home. It's like school is a black box. When I checked her writing notebook at the end of the year when it finally came home, there was very little writing in it and no feedback on any of it. When I asked about homework, I was told all schools are getting rid of it when I know that's not true district-wide.

I would only sound like, "my little snowflake isn't getting any attention!" and promptly be brushed off.

Anonymous wrote:And, if the majority of the kids in your base school need extra attention, then those above average kids are mostly ignored. Why? Because they've surpassed the grade standards and the schools don't want to lose their accreditation. So they'll put most effort into helping the kids who really need it. As a parent, you have to put up with it and supplement or try for AAP or move.

Some high FARMS, high ESOL schools still have effective models for working with the kids who are behind but still providing enough of a challenge to the LII and LIII kids. Likewise, some AAP centers have effective models for handling the wide range of abilities in AAP and making sure that all of the kids are challenged. Rather than studying equity, I wish they had instead investigated which schools have had the most successful models for delivering LII, LIII, and LIV services, and how those models could be used by every school. The schools that ignore the bright average kids have horrible instructional models, and the parents should be complaining to the school board or superintendent.

And, if the majority of the kids in your base school need extra attention, then those above average kids are mostly ignored. Why? Because they've surpassed the grade standards and the schools don't want to lose their accreditation. So they'll put most effort into helping the kids who really need it. As a parent, you have to put up with it and supplement or try for AAP or move.