Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 13:13     Subject: Sister in law from hell
SIL is a professional woman (doctor) who just had a baby that was hospitalized. Pretty traumatic for anyone. It’s her first born and she’s probably back at work. She doesn’t want people handling the baby when she’s not there. She doesn’t want to discuss the hospital issues. She also likes to cook and stay well dressed (as well as work, take care of sick baby, and so on).
But she doesn’t have time for a lot of small talk chat?? OP do you not have kids or a job?
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 13:12     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, my brother is married to a woman who many of my family members think is mentally ill (e.g., personality disorder, anxious, depressed, controlling, manipulative, etc.). Here is what I have noticed:

1) My brother does not talk to my mom and sister (the main people who have the opinion of mental illness) about things in their relationship that are good. When I asked him why, he point-blank told me that mom and sister don't like wife and don't care about good things. When I asked him why he vents negatively, he said because he is frustrated, gets it off his chest, and then solves the problem. He recognizes that his venting has created an impression of his wife and his marriage that is perhaps not totally accurate. Does your brother understand this?

2) My SIL has never really enjoyed participating in our family events. I have been married twice and my first husband felt similarly. He said that he always felt like he was on the outside. He was also not a great husband and I vented to my mom and siblings about this, and I could see how that changed the way they treated him. I made different choices with my second husband, and he feels more included and participates more.

3) Relatedly, my SIL's family of origin has a really different interaction style. Our family events were way too much for her. Initially, I think my mom expected SIL to adapt to our family's style when it was clear that she didn't like it. Have you noticed differences in the way that your SIL prefers to engage and the way your family of origin prefers to engage? Everything from how loud people talk to use of humor is relevant.


OP here. My brother never used to talk about his wife to me or my mom and very little only to my dad. This is also why I don’t know much about what was going on before. My dad also does not want to talk about the issue so other than knowing she was upset at me for not contacting her directly to ask about her when their daughter was in the hospital, leaving the family chat and planning baptism 2 weeks after we left, I did not know what was going on.
Her family is very similar to our family. Same origins, same culture, etc. They come from a small town near our city and they love to cook... these are the two big differences I see.
She loves to cook and she always looks nice, nails done, every week blow out, always dresses nice, etc. My mom and I are not like this. We don’t cook, never get our nails done and hairdresser maybe once a year. My brother likes that she cares about looking good compared to my mom and I that are more or less always looking frumpy. This is another difference I guess...
over all, family is very important for everyone. They spend a lot of time with her side of the family (though my brother has started hating that too, but only recently).


OP, I guess my issue is that it is clear that your SIL either does not feel like part of your family or straight up does not want to be part of your family. If it is the former, that is likely at least partially due to the way that you and your parents interacted with her in the early stages of their relationship. It may not be how you are NOW, but if it is true that she does not feel like she is "one of you" then it is likely that at some point, some behavior of yours was complicit in her forming that impression. If she just does not want to be part of your family, frankly, that is sad for your brother because unless he is able to figure out a way to stay close to his family of origin without her presence or involvement, his choice is between you and all the mother of his child. That is a terrible position to be in.

My other point was that your brother does not tell you everything. He may overcompensate in telling you positive things in order to balance out the negative things, but you are not getting a clear picture of their relationship. Your brother is venting to you about something that is upsetting him right now, which is his right. But frankly, if I told you about the day at work I am having so far, your impression would be that I hate my job when the reality is that I'm having a crappy day at work, as happens about once a week, and the other 4 days are usually totally fine.

It sounds like this is a couple that has had some significant challenges in the last year between the birth of their first child to that child having severe medical issues. That puts a lot of stress on a person and on a marriage. If your SIL trended toward overly anxious in the past, I'd imagine that her anxiety is through the roof after having a medical scare with her first child. It sounds like your brother's response to that is to become angry with her and dissatisfied with the marriage. I am not sure that that is any more appropriate of a response than extreme anxiety and weird controlling behavior (e.g., the text issue, the not-seeing-baby-unless-I'm-there issue, etc.).
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 13:12     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This thread is a great Exhibit A of misandry. The amount of women on this board who hate men is quite astounding. I have never in my life met women like this and being a woman, I have a lot of female friends.

It is why we still have so much toxic masculinity. When you treat men like they don't deserve respect, you don't get a lot of respect back. When you teach your boys they aren't worth anything, they act out when they grow up.

When you attack women who support men who are in abusive situations or dealing with abuse in their relationship - you are just deepening the problem.



+1000
I cannot believe how many posters are piling up on OP. Are there women like these in real life? I am happy I do not know them.
The brother is clearly being abused.


I'm with you, OP and PP. There's something wrong here and your brother is in knee deep. Just support him and be there for him when he needs you. Time reveals all, and hopefully he'll do something about it and soon. You'll miss time with him and the cousins might not have as close a relationship as a result.But, there's nothing you can do right now. he knows what you think. Leave it. Focus on your family.


I totally agree with all of the above.

Thing is, whether you are bashing OP or supportive and concerned for the brother, it all appears like the advice is the same: stay out of the marriage, and be supportive of your brother without badmouthing his wife. At the end of the day, only the brother can decide where he draws the lines, both for his spouse and his family of origin.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 13:10     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:It is not adding up. OP admitted that it was when she didn't ask about her sil at all that her sil had it with her. While her baby was in a hospital. I wonder how many times, did this op make her sil feel like she is a tag along. It is telling that OP is upset about never seeing her brother alone, but that sil always used to come along. SIL probably found out that op complained about wanting her brother alone. Most of us that are mature and married usually come as a package, we don't insist on going alone somewhere all the time. I go out with my sister and her dh out all the time, seems odd to exclude him. Sometimes he doesn't feel like going, but he is always invited. Yet, op showed her objection to this here, I find that immature and possessive.


-1 Mature married people are perfectly capable of spending time with their siblings without their spouses tagging along and don't need permission to do so.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 13:09     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:It is not adding up. OP admitted that it was when she didn't ask about her sil at all that her sil had it with her. While her baby was in a hospital. I wonder how many times, did this op make her sil feel like she is a tag along. It is telling that OP is upset about never seeing her brother alone, but that sil always used to come along. SIL probably found out that op complained about wanting her brother alone. Most of us that are mature and married usually come as a package, we don't insist on going alone somewhere all the time. I go out with my sister and her dh out all the time, seems odd to exclude him. Sometimes he doesn't feel like going, but he is always invited. Yet, op showed her objection to this here, I find that immature and possessive.

OP here. I asked about her multiple times in the 3 days they were at the hospital and once home, but to my brother and not to her directly. That was her issue with me. I think it’s crazy and that is why people are not understanding it correctly.
Basically SIL would have liked all conversations to go through her. Anyway... I am tired to explain. I promise that I have always been nice to her so are my parents. I may not make much of an effort to talk to her right now, but I did until a month ago. I would always text her ask how she was doing ask for pictures of her daughter and she wouldn’t even ask how I was back... really... I have been nice, tried my best. I think I should keep doing this, but at this point I am too upset. Maybe by the time we visit in a few weeks I will be able to get back to be extra nice to her. I just wished she were different for my brother sake. I hope I am wrong about her
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 13:09     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:Thread title is accurate, OP. You are the SIL from hell!

To put it succinctly: Get a life.


X1000000
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 13:06     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You stayed with them for two months wen they had a new baby!?!?!!?

You kind of sound like a smothering family, to be honest. Way too involved in each others business.


What? No! I was pregnant and stayed in the US. I did not see the baby until she was 6 months. My parents saw them, but not much


"I am not able to visit their baby unless she is present (the baby is my only blood niece). She baptized the baby 2 weeks after we left the country (I guess so that my husband, my kids and I could not be present... after being there for 2 months)."


Ok, we were in the same country about an hour away from their house for about 6-7 weeks this past summer and would have loved to have attended the baptism. If she had wanted us there, she would have schedule it for a day in those 6-7 weeks. Instead she did it two weeks after we left and said that had not been able to plan it for before... totally fine and nobody got upset, but I noticed of course. Their baby was 6-7 months and my youngest was 5-6 months.


Yes - you were all upset and vilified SIL over it and it is so silly. A Baptism is a religious event and it doesn’t need you in attendance. And don’t ever say again “ my blood niece” - makes you sound silly and very young
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 13:01     Subject: Sister in law from hell
It is not adding up. OP admitted that it was when she didn't ask about her sil at all that her sil had it with her. While her baby was in a hospital. I wonder how many times, did this op make her sil feel like she is a tag along. It is telling that OP is upset about never seeing her brother alone, but that sil always used to come along. SIL probably found out that op complained about wanting her brother alone. Most of us that are mature and married usually come as a package, we don't insist on going alone somewhere all the time. I go out with my sister and her dh out all the time, seems odd to exclude him. Sometimes he doesn't feel like going, but he is always invited. Yet, op showed her objection to this here, I find that immature and possessive.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 12:51     Subject: Sister in law from hell
I could see my own Inlaws perceiving me this way and our relationship isn’t awesome but here perhaps is why she might be doing some of these things

- I don’t like my Inlaws visiting when I’m not around. Why? Bc my husband totally checks out and hands over all child related responsibilities to two people that don’t know the schedule, don’t know to watch the infant for putting the toddlers toys in his mouth, don’t make sure they get enough sleep etc. I’m barely holding on right now and come home to exhausted off track toddlers and baby and I just can’t take on anymore. It’s DHs fault but the impact is I don’t want Inlaws around if it’s going to make everything 10x harder, in that stretched right now

- Inlaws have waaaay different boundaries about what information they should have. After I miscarried they continually asked dh if I was “still bleeding” (how is that their business???) and during IVF they pried endlessly for info about me that I wanted to keep very private. Again a dh problem for not shutting that down, but it’s made me very paranoid / annoyed by their convos in general

- no amount of seeing us is enough and every trip is filled with guilt trips. They’re now guilting my 2yo about seeing them also. We live states away and see them about 10x a year - it’s plenty! Whenever I try to crack open the door and let then in a little more, they take a mile. An invitation for a long weekend visit secretly turns into a week, inviting them to come by for dinner when they’re in town for work anyways turns into them staying for a weekend etc etc. I never know what they’re actually going to sneak into doing or what they’re really asking for and they always have some scheme to get more so they get a lot of hard no’s bc if I say yes they don’t adhere to any sort of agreed to boundary

I could see from their perspective them saying I’m cold, get annoyed when they talk to their own son, don’t let them visit, supervise their interactions with the kids - and it’s all true! But there are reasons other than “im abusive”
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 12:36     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This thread is a great Exhibit A of misandry. The amount of women on this board who hate men is quite astounding. I have never in my life met women like this and being a woman, I have a lot of female friends.

It is why we still have so much toxic masculinity. When you treat men like they don't deserve respect, you don't get a lot of respect back. When you teach your boys they aren't worth anything, they act out when they grow up.

When you attack women who support men who are in abusive situations or dealing with abuse in their relationship - you are just deepening the problem.



Please. It has nothing to do with misandry.

What side of the issue you fall on here depends on whether you find OP’s assertions of abuse convincing. If you take OP at face-value, her brother deserves lots of support and help. If you find OP’s examples of absurd and her manner persistent, self-absorbed, judgmental, and hyperbolic, then you sympathize with SIL.

My objection to OP had nothing to do with misandry, but with the dislike of a sister tearing a sister down. In fact, my objection is fully feminist. When we tear one woman down, we tear all woman down. This is what I find objectionable with OP and her family. Don't tear the sister down. Especially the one that until April was a great SIL, had a sick baby, and might be suffering from PPD.


I only say what I think about SIL on this chat and to my Husband. I do not tear her down and told my brother repeatedly that the first year with a baby is hard on any marriage. In this moment I deeply dislike her, but you (and maybe my husband) are the only people aware of it


And your mom, and you dad, and the rest of your “small” family?
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 12:34     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This thread is a great Exhibit A of misandry. The amount of women on this board who hate men is quite astounding. I have never in my life met women like this and being a woman, I have a lot of female friends.

It is why we still have so much toxic masculinity. When you treat men like they don't deserve respect, you don't get a lot of respect back. When you teach your boys they aren't worth anything, they act out when they grow up.

When you attack women who support men who are in abusive situations or dealing with abuse in their relationship - you are just deepening the problem.



+1000
I cannot believe how many posters are piling up on OP. Are there women like these in real life? I am happy I do not know them.
The brother is clearly being abused.


Yes, OP. Also, learn the difference between these and this, and your sockpuppeting may improve.
Different poster here. Really, pp? You think criticizing the other pp's use of "these" is something that gives you credibility? SMH


No, but I think it gives away that OP is sockpuppeting. I did not correct any of her other misspellings and I made many myself. She wants validation, not advice.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 12:33     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This thread is a great Exhibit A of misandry. The amount of women on this board who hate men is quite astounding. I have never in my life met women like this and being a woman, I have a lot of female friends.

It is why we still have so much toxic masculinity. When you treat men like they don't deserve respect, you don't get a lot of respect back. When you teach your boys they aren't worth anything, they act out when they grow up.



Oh FFS! This has nothing to do with feminism. I hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of women who need tearing down!
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 12:31     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This thread is a great Exhibit A of misandry. The amount of women on this board who hate men is quite astounding. I have never in my life met women like this and being a woman, I have a lot of female friends.

It is why we still have so much toxic masculinity. When you treat men like they don't deserve respect, you don't get a lot of respect back. When you teach your boys they aren't worth anything, they act out when they grow up.

When you attack women who support men who are in abusive situations or dealing with abuse in their relationship - you are just deepening the problem.



+1000
I cannot believe how many posters are piling up on OP. Are there women like these in real life? I am happy I do not know them.
The brother is clearly being abused.


I'm with you, OP and PP. There's something wrong here and your brother is in knee deep. Just support him and be there for him when he needs you. Time reveals all, and hopefully he'll do something about it and soon. You'll miss time with him and the cousins might not have as close a relationship as a result.But, there's nothing you can do right now. he knows what you think. Leave it. Focus on your family.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 12:23     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This thread is a great Exhibit A of misandry. The amount of women on this board who hate men is quite astounding. I have never in my life met women like this and being a woman, I have a lot of female friends.

It is why we still have so much toxic masculinity. When you treat men like they don't deserve respect, you don't get a lot of respect back. When you teach your boys they aren't worth anything, they act out when they grow up.

When you attack women who support men who are in abusive situations or dealing with abuse in their relationship - you are just deepening the problem.



Please. It has nothing to do with misandry.

What side of the issue you fall on here depends on whether you find OP’s assertions of abuse convincing. If you take OP at face-value, her brother deserves lots of support and help. If you find OP’s examples of absurd and her manner persistent, self-absorbed, judgmental, and hyperbolic, then you sympathize with SIL.

My objection to OP had nothing to do with misandry, but with the dislike of a sister tearing a sister down. In fact, my objection is fully feminist. When we tear one woman down, we tear all woman down. This is what I find objectionable with OP and her family. Don't tear the sister down. Especially the one that until April was a great SIL, had a sick baby, and might be suffering from PPD.


I only say what I think about SIL on this chat and to my Husband. I do not tear her down and told my brother repeatedly that the first year with a baby is hard on any marriage. In this moment I deeply dislike her, but you (and maybe my husband) are the only people aware of it

And yet, you wrote that you told your brother that he should take care of himself and go out and do things on his own. Are you sure that those rec to him were innocent of any put down of his wife?
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2019 12:21     Subject: Sister in law from hell
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This thread is a great Exhibit A of misandry. The amount of women on this board who hate men is quite astounding. I have never in my life met women like this and being a woman, I have a lot of female friends.

It is why we still have so much toxic masculinity. When you treat men like they don't deserve respect, you don't get a lot of respect back. When you teach your boys they aren't worth anything, they act out when they grow up.

When you attack women who support men who are in abusive situations or dealing with abuse in their relationship - you are just deepening the problem.



Please. It has nothing to do with misandry.

What side of the issue you fall on here depends on whether you find OP’s assertions of abuse convincing. If you take OP at face-value, her brother deserves lots of support and help. If you find OP’s examples of absurd and her manner persistent, self-absorbed, judgmental, and hyperbolic, then you sympathize with SIL.

My objection to OP had nothing to do with misandry, but with the dislike of a sister tearing a sister down. In fact, my objection is fully feminist. When we tear one woman down, we tear all woman down. This is what I find objectionable with OP and her family. Don't tear the sister down. Especially the one that until April was a great SIL, had a sick baby, and might be suffering from PPD.


I only say what I think about SIL on this chat and to my Husband. I do not tear her down and told my brother repeatedly that the first year with a baby is hard on any marriage. In this moment I deeply dislike her, but you (and maybe my husband) are the only people aware of it