Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vote in an official impeachment inquiry so the rules kick in and these things won't happen.

No vote is required. Nancy already announced the beginning of impeachment inquiry om 9/24: https://www.c-span.org/video/?464684-1/speaker-pelosi-announces-formal-impeachment-inquiry-president-trump

The is no law and nothing in the Constitution that requires a vote. We are in the midst of the inquiry.

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Anonymous wrote:When you are outraged about everything, legitimate issues on which one should be outraged about gets overlooked or is assumed to be more of the same.

Yesterday the outrage was about Trump using the term lynching with regard to impeachment and then it turned out that several Democrats used the same term to describe the Clinton impeachment including Biden!

Such a lot of phony outrage!

Phony like our constitution.

Like I said, a constant state of outrage causes legitimate outrage to be dismissed.

Remember the boy who cried wolf .........

Again I ask you. Is this a legitimate outrage being obfuscated by excessive outrage or is this part of the outrage cloud of nonsense you are trying to denounce?

Of course, there are things that warrant outrage. I think Trump's putting the Kurds at risk is just terrible and inexcusable. But like I said Democrats go into a fit of outrage over anything and everything that Trump and the Republicans do. The net effect is that one gets desensitized to it.

BTW, i am not a Trump supporter. i did not vote for him but I know quite a few who have - some reluctantly - and trust me when I say they just ignore most of this faux outrage.

Yep, that is me. Everyday something new to yell about - I just tune it out. Dem's gonna outrage about something, just not that important to me any longer. I think it was the Kavanaugh outrage finally broke me of caring what D's yell about any longer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you are outraged about everything, legitimate issues on which one should be outraged about gets overlooked or is assumed to be more of the same.

Yesterday the outrage was about Trump using the term lynching with regard to impeachment and then it turned out that several Democrats used the same term to describe the Clinton impeachment including Biden!

Such a lot of phony outrage!

Phony like our constitution.

Like I said, a constant state of outrage causes legitimate outrage to be dismissed.

Remember the boy who cried wolf .........

Again I ask you. Is this a legitimate outrage being obfuscated by excessive outrage or is this part of the outrage cloud of nonsense you are trying to denounce?

Of course, there are things that warrant outrage. I think Trump's putting the Kurds at risk is just terrible and inexcusable. But like I said Democrats go into a fit of outrage over anything and everything that Trump and the Republicans do. The net effect is that one gets desensitized to it.

BTW, i am not a Trump supporter. i did not vote for him but I know quite a few who have - some reluctantly - and trust me when I say they just ignore most of this faux outrage.

Anonymous wrote:Vote in an official impeachment inquiry so the rules kick in and these things won't happen.

Anonymous wrote:Vote in an official impeachment inquiry so the rules kick in and these things won't happen.

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I'm the very first PP you're responding to. I didn't write either of the other two posts in this thread. Taking a cell phone into a secure location isn't pronouncing innocence or guilt on hysteria. It's a fact/event. It happened or it didn't happen.

The most damaging thing Trump has done is completely eliminate a lot of American's abilities to determine fact and fiction. Or fact and opinion. This incident is not like, 'oh we all see it a different way' type thing. Secure rooms are set up for a reason to protect national security and compromising them is a big deal. One that, as another pp has pointed out multiple times, would get a regular employee fired without much question.

As for your other point. I used to be like you. 2020 is the most important thing, eyes on the prize. But Trump has to be impeached for posterity. We cannot have allowed a president to do what he has done without consequence, allowing it will erode norms for generations. It is the duty of congress to investigate presidential malfeasance and to remove from office or censure a president who violates his duties of office. I believe that it would politically smarter to not pursue this, but it would be like letting one person get away with murder because its too hard or awkward to prosecute. It would be wrong. My libertarian used to be a Republican husband thinks this even more than I do FWIW.

Again, you make some fair points: I don't question that phones were taken to a secure location. But was national security jeopardized in a definitive manner?

Since you are talking about the longer terms ramifications let me tell you what I concerned about: will the impeachment play out to Trump's advantage in 2020? If so, then going through an impeachment that will contribute to his reelection is foolhardy. Pelosi saw that risk and did not want to take that chance. I think she got railroaded into going with it.

As far as fact/fiction, Trump has contributed to it but so have others and especially the media. I don't believe hardly anything that is published and opinion columns by either side are almost worthless. This reliance on anonymous sources is ridiculous and has contributed to the distrust.

People ask why the base has given Trump a pass repeatedly: it is not because they are dumb or uneducated or any of that nonsense. It is because for years before Trump the bias in the media was so pronounced against conservatives that it was viewed as the norm. This was so drummed into them by talk radio - with some legitimacy - that they just don't trust hardly anything the media says. I am not a conservative but I don't watch CNN or MSNBC or Fox because those sources are just outright biased.

I have friend who is a former colonel in the army - and he is a Trump supporter. He does not believe most of what the media says. The only difference is that he does watch Fox. FWIW, he views me as a misguided but reasonable liberal!

My fear with impeaching Trump without any chance of his removal is that when we have a Democratic president and a Republican controlled House, we will likely see the same thing happen and the Republicans will argue that it is something that needs to be done as a matter of principle, etc.

Fundamentally, elections should not be overturned by impeachment except in rare instances and where there is a likely possibility of removal. Clinton was impeached - it is there for posterity - but most people don't even remember it. Memories are short and that has nothing to do with whether one is a Democrat or Republican.

Focus on what needs to be done to win the next election ...... not futile exercises that have no chance of success.

Bringing ANY electronic devices into a SCIF is a violation of Federal law. Are you saying those who violated the law should not face prosecution?

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Anonymous wrote:Yesterday testimony was intentionally leaked and none of you cared to come on here and complain about that bastardization of the sacred house process.

All of the opening statements have been made public.

If they were done behind closed doors, how can we trust that's what really happened?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yesterday testimony was intentionally leaked and none of you cared to come on here and complain about that bastardization of the sacred house process.

All of the opening statements have been made public.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yesterday testimony was intentionally leaked and none of you cared to come on here and complain about that bastardization of the sacred house process.

Leaking photos of testimony is bad. 100%. It is not bring your cellphone into a SCIF and tweet from it bad but it is bad. It is more run of the mill bad though than, JFC you're compromising national security bad.

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Anonymous wrote:All the Republicans are doing is showing how utterly terrified they are by the impeachment investigation.

You literally do not understand the nation's conscience when you think it's totally cool to disenfranchise millions of voters by attempting to impeach because of a narrative you refuse to show the public.

You are seeking to depose a duly elected President of the United States of America behind closed doors. What did you think was going to happen?

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Anonymous wrote:In response to this, it may be time for Schiff and Pelosi to just go ahead and have these depositions public and televised. Show the country all of Trump's crimes.

And reward what the GOP just did?