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Anonymous wrote:I do not know any dual family homes with flexible jobs. Most people do not have flexibility in their jobs. Most are unfulfilled at their jobs. Most do not have job security. Most do not make tons of money. Most people work because their paycheck is required at home.

If you have the luxury of outsourcing your chores, making your kids lives stress free, flexibility of schedule to not have caretakers do the parenting, being there for your children all the time, not being run ragged yourself - you are very blessed and you are also an anomaly as a SAH/WOH/WAH parent. This scenario is not what is available to majority of parents in any capacity.

Really? I feel like almost everyone I know in the DC area has a flexible job unless they are big law and have a SAH spouse. I went into government (GS-14 fed attorney) and it’s very stable and flexible. DH is in IT consulting and a lot of that work is done remotely with flexible hours except client meetings. I feel like we are pretty typical for the area.

Obviously we know we are fortunate, but I wanted to provide a counter to the doomsday scenario presented where kids are left with strangers or ignored 24/7 by working parents, which is not standard of the working parents I know. Our kids do attend a high quality Montessori preschool, but I would not qualify that as caretakers doing “the parenting.” Even the SAHMs I’m friends with send their kids out for at least part time preschool. It’s honestly good for kids to get out a bit on their own.

It is hilarious that you proved my point and do not recognize your privilege. Good for you, honey!

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Anonymous wrote:I do not know any dual family homes with flexible jobs. Most people do not have flexibility in their jobs. Most are unfulfilled at their jobs. Most do not have job security. Most do not make tons of money. Most people work because their paycheck is required at home.

If you have the luxury of outsourcing your chores, making your kids lives stress free, flexibility of schedule to not have caretakers do the parenting, being there for your children all the time, not being run ragged yourself - you are very blessed and you are also an anomaly as a SAH/WOH/WAH parent. This scenario is not what is available to majority of parents in any capacity.

Really? I feel like almost everyone I know in the DC area has a flexible job unless they are big law and have a SAH spouse. I went into government (GS-14 fed attorney) and it’s very stable and flexible. DH is in IT consulting and a lot of that work is done remotely with flexible hours except client meetings. I feel like we are pretty typical for the area.

Obviously we know we are fortunate, but I wanted to provide a counter to the doomsday scenario presented where kids are left with strangers or ignored 24/7 by working parents, which is not standard of the working parents I know. Our kids do attend a high quality Montessori preschool, but I would not qualify that as caretakers doing “the parenting.” Even the SAHMs I’m friends with send their kids out for at least part time preschool. It’s honestly good for kids to get out a bit on their own.

Pretty much everyone I know has a relatively flexible job. SAHMs love to say it's impossible to justify their lifestyle.

THIS. I think I only know one woman whose job isn’t flexible and doesn’t allow telework.

So many sahms convince themselves they would have to work 50 hours, commute 5 days a week and put their kids in daycare. This really isn’t a requirement to working. These same women haven’t even interviewed for jobs. They have just given up before they have even found out whether flexibility is an option for them. I think it’s an excuse not to work and they will be sorry later!

Me and my spouse have pretty flexible and fulfilling jobs (we're both federal employees), an easy commute, and a great daycare and support system. I have to travel a lot for work and it's really not that difficult. We are not an exception!!! My colleagues, neighbors, and friends are all pretty similar.

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Anonymous wrote:^Also, he did not take classes during the summer so there was time for him to take the kids to the pool and do things together as a family (including our annual vacation).

Wow your husband took his own kids to the pool! What a coparent!

Actually, he was (and is) a really great dad and role model to our kids. He's done it all over the years - timer at swim meets, scout camp outs, field trips, fishing, etc. Oh, and he finished a degree while working full time, supporting his family on one paycheck and putting away money for our retirement and our children's educations. He is truly an awesome guy and I'm proud of him.

Okay....but what about you? How is he helping you reach your goals? Do you have any besides being the support person? Genuinely curious.

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Anonymous wrote:Resentment to DH as stated upthread, but also the resentment towards WOH moms whose kids are in daycare. I'm sorry if I'm not feeling chipper and enthusiastic like you - You are "refreshed" and haven't been with your kids since the moment they work up like a SAHM. So, yea, I am a bit burnt out by the time it is 430pm - my kids have been awake for the last 8+ hours and bedtime isn't for another 4 hours. Those 12 hrs days get long even with screen time mixed in (gasp!), outings/playground/nature center, playdates, etc. 24/7.

Yeah, I'm so refreshed after a long day at work. If working is so easy why don't you just go back?

Ha. Not that pp, but I used to envy the adult conversation that dh had at work, as well as, his ability to focus on something for longer than 3 minutes w/o a baby or toddler interrupting him. I even envied his "alone time" during his commute into work.

I can laugh at it now but, at the time, when simply going to the bathroom all by myself was not easy those were some very real feelings.

Yes!! I cried last week when my husband returned from a business trip (four hours of sweet silence each way on the Acela) and casually showed me video of some dumb Grateful Dead cover band playing in a bar he’d gone to after his meetings. I can’t remember the last time I was at a bar, or saw live music that wasn’t kid-themed, or had a beer without one eyeball following a toddler around the room. I bawled like a crazy person and he didn’t get it. At all.

Like this thread points out there are so many things about my daily SAHM routine that I need to value now. But there are also issues of dignity and basic human needs that are so tough. I don’t poop alone, ever. I rarely get a full shower/blow dry. I have to ask permission and move mountains to go to the doctor. I feel like a servant, a nanny. My marriage has suffered.

I am also so grateful to lay with my kids while they nap, and to see our city through them, and to have found part time work that I’m proud of.

This is pathetic. Stop being a mommy martyr. Hire yourself a babysitter. Have date nights. Go and see live music. Have your hair done. You don’t have to give up your life because you have some kids. Eventually they will be in school. Then what?

It's a stage of life pp. They aren't little forever and you do get your freedom back eventually. Dh & I really didn't need to go out on date nights because once the kids were sleeping through the night we would put them to bed (7pm) and have the rest of the evening together. We made it work.

Flash forward a couple of decades later - dh and I do go bar hopping on occasion, we see live music, we even stay out overnight if we want to. It does get easier. But I still remember what it was like to be in the trenches of parenting small children.

Good job losing your identity!!!

The only people who feel that their identity is wrapped up in which concerts they see or how they consume alcohol are teenagers or adults who wish they were still teenagers.
Go be something, do something, or make something, pp. Stop identifying yourself by your favorite band.

So in your opinion the choices are:

1. Quit any hobbies, no date nights, minimal personal grooming

OR

2. Stay an adolescent identifying yourself by your favorite band??

It’s sad you see motherhood as so black or white. I enjoy my interests, regular date nights, nights out with friends and still spend time and money keeping up my appearance. I also love my children. It’s not either/or.

Becoming 100% about your kids doesn’t make you a better parent!!

You can go to concerts and out to eat when you have the time and the money without it being your entire identity. I don’t feel like I have lost myself if I don’t go to a concert in a while.
And identifying yourself primarily as a wife and mother (whatever that looks like to you) DOES make you a better parent.

You know it's not just about going to a concert every once in awhile. It's about valuing your personal interests outside of being a parent. Obviously you prefer the martyr route and relish the idea of self-sacrifice but I personally enjoy being a mother to a toddler and also a lot of other things in life.

I think you can value your personal interests without them serving as your entire identity. I would feel like I lost myself if my children and spouse left me. I like going rowing, and I missed it the years I had small kids and couldn’t go, but I didn’t feel like I lost myself or my identity. It sounds like you feel the opposite. You like your spouse and your toddler, and you would miss them if they moved away, but you wouldn’t feel like you lost yourself. You would feel like you lost yourself and your identity if you couldn’t go to concerts or drinking with friends.
I don’t consider myself a martyr, just an adult. And I do think you have an adolescent mindset typical of “16 and pregnant “ crowd.

Wow, your worldview is so warped and judgmental. You can mischaracterize me all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Not that pp, but reread what you wrote and what prompted pp's reply to you. You come across as pretty darned judgmental yourself.

I think there were multiple posters. I don't think any of my comments were mean-spirited--I just wanted to point out that we don't have to see ourselves as sacrificing our "freedom" to parent young children. I continue to have personal interests outside of my child that, despite what the previous poster wants to believe, do not involve going to concerts or drinking. Although, more power to the moms who get to go to concerts! I'm just not cool enough.

You still have your own personal interests even after you have kids but unless you are able to drop your kids off with a regular sitter on a regular basis there is going to be a very real limit as to how often you will be free to pursue your own given interests. Sometimes you just plain have to wait until the kids are a bit older. It's not like you have kids and BAM! your whole life is over. But the reality is that little kids need a ton of supervision and unless you have a lot of excess income, you are not going to be able to SAH, AND outsource a lot of your childcare AND afford to go fun adult places and do fun adult things. It's just not practical.

Why do you need to afford childcare to go do fun adult things? Can’t your DH watch the kids once a week and give you a few hours on the weekend to go for a run, meet a girlfriend for brunch, read a book at a coffee shop, etc.? Just because you’re a SAHM doesn’t mean you’re on kid duty 24/7. I work, but even if I stopped working, I’d still expect DH to do his fair share outside of working hours. In dual income families, working parents still put in plenty of time with kids after work. I don’t understand SAHPs who let the working spouse off the hook for helping out just because they have a job. It’s totally possible to have a full time career and take care of the kids and house while your spouse gets a break.

If you are mommy 24/7 and not expecting your partner to give you a break, you’re doing it wrong.

I agree but sadly I’ve never met a household with a SAHM where the woman had an active social life and was as independent as her husband. Maybe this changes as kids get older but doesn’t seem to work this way for most families when kids are younger. Every SAHM I know is 100% about the kids, few interests, is treated like household help by her husband and has a husband who doesn’t do anything in terms of housework.

Well you haven't met me or any of my friends, and we are nothing like the SAHMs you describe.

It depends on what you consider an active social life. Working spouses do have more time for adults only business trips, after work cocktail hours, gym (sans kids) and their social lives aren't restricted to yoga class and lunch out with friends while the kids are in school.

I've actually really enjoyed being a SAHM. I had fun doing playgroups, volunteering at the school, hanging out at swim practice, doing Mommy and Me classes and taking the kids fun places with their friends like the zoo. I had a social life but it's a kid centered, daytime social life. Honestly, at night I just wanted to hang out with my husband and go to bed early because I knew that the kids would be up bright and early before the sun was up the next morning.

I pretty much know of no SAHMs who were free to go out on the town at night with their friends or were able to travel w/o kids in tow. When we traveled we traveled with our husband and kids. A few SAHMs that I knew traveled (with kids) to visit family over the summer while their husbands stayed at home and took care of work and projects around the house. In general, SAHPs generally socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. Working spouses interact with a broader range of people - empty nesters, young and single, parents of varying age ranges, etc.

I know because I worked for quite awhile before we had kids. There is a difference.

+1. Once in a while I go out for a girls night or weekend trip. My SAHM friends seem shocked.

That's because their husbands don't parent, yet they're the ones who come on these boards gloating about the importance of having a parent at home. I'm so glad my MIL worked so my DH would never see that as the norm.

I know a women whose husband has NEVER been alone with their 3 year old. Not ONCE.

+100000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not know any dual family homes with flexible jobs. Most people do not have flexibility in their jobs. Most are unfulfilled at their jobs. Most do not have job security. Most do not make tons of money. Most people work because their paycheck is required at home.

If you have the luxury of outsourcing your chores, making your kids lives stress free, flexibility of schedule to not have caretakers do the parenting, being there for your children all the time, not being run ragged yourself - you are very blessed and you are also an anomaly as a SAH/WOH/WAH parent. This scenario is not what is available to majority of parents in any capacity.

Really? I feel like almost everyone I know in the DC area has a flexible job unless they are big law and have a SAH spouse. I went into government (GS-14 fed attorney) and it’s very stable and flexible. DH is in IT consulting and a lot of that work is done remotely with flexible hours except client meetings. I feel like we are pretty typical for the area.

Obviously we know we are fortunate, but I wanted to provide a counter to the doomsday scenario presented where kids are left with strangers or ignored 24/7 by working parents, which is not standard of the working parents I know. Our kids do attend a high quality Montessori preschool, but I would not qualify that as caretakers doing “the parenting.” Even the SAHMs I’m friends with send their kids out for at least part time preschool. It’s honestly good for kids to get out a bit on their own.

Pretty much everyone I know has a relatively flexible job. SAHMs love to say it's impossible to justify their lifestyle.

THIS. I think I only know one woman whose job isn’t flexible and doesn’t allow telework.

So many sahms convince themselves they would have to work 50 hours, commute 5 days a week and put their kids in daycare. This really isn’t a requirement to working. These same women haven’t even interviewed for jobs. They have just given up before they have even found out whether flexibility is an option for them. I think it’s an excuse not to work and they will be sorry later!

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Anonymous wrote:Resentment to DH as stated upthread, but also the resentment towards WOH moms whose kids are in daycare. I'm sorry if I'm not feeling chipper and enthusiastic like you - You are "refreshed" and haven't been with your kids since the moment they work up like a SAHM. So, yea, I am a bit burnt out by the time it is 430pm - my kids have been awake for the last 8+ hours and bedtime isn't for another 4 hours. Those 12 hrs days get long even with screen time mixed in (gasp!), outings/playground/nature center, playdates, etc. 24/7.

Yeah, I'm so refreshed after a long day at work. If working is so easy why don't you just go back?

Ha. Not that pp, but I used to envy the adult conversation that dh had at work, as well as, his ability to focus on something for longer than 3 minutes w/o a baby or toddler interrupting him. I even envied his "alone time" during his commute into work.

I can laugh at it now but, at the time, when simply going to the bathroom all by myself was not easy those were some very real feelings.

Yes!! I cried last week when my husband returned from a business trip (four hours of sweet silence each way on the Acela) and casually showed me video of some dumb Grateful Dead cover band playing in a bar he’d gone to after his meetings. I can’t remember the last time I was at a bar, or saw live music that wasn’t kid-themed, or had a beer without one eyeball following a toddler around the room. I bawled like a crazy person and he didn’t get it. At all.

Like this thread points out there are so many things about my daily SAHM routine that I need to value now. But there are also issues of dignity and basic human needs that are so tough. I don’t poop alone, ever. I rarely get a full shower/blow dry. I have to ask permission and move mountains to go to the doctor. I feel like a servant, a nanny. My marriage has suffered.

I am also so grateful to lay with my kids while they nap, and to see our city through them, and to have found part time work that I’m proud of.

This is pathetic. Stop being a mommy martyr. Hire yourself a babysitter. Have date nights. Go and see live music. Have your hair done. You don’t have to give up your life because you have some kids. Eventually they will be in school. Then what?

It's a stage of life pp. They aren't little forever and you do get your freedom back eventually. Dh & I really didn't need to go out on date nights because once the kids were sleeping through the night we would put them to bed (7pm) and have the rest of the evening together. We made it work.

Flash forward a couple of decades later - dh and I do go bar hopping on occasion, we see live music, we even stay out overnight if we want to. It does get easier. But I still remember what it was like to be in the trenches of parenting small children.

Good job losing your identity!!!

The only people who feel that their identity is wrapped up in which concerts they see or how they consume alcohol are teenagers or adults who wish they were still teenagers.
Go be something, do something, or make something, pp. Stop identifying yourself by your favorite band.

So in your opinion the choices are:

1. Quit any hobbies, no date nights, minimal personal grooming

OR

2. Stay an adolescent identifying yourself by your favorite band??

It’s sad you see motherhood as so black or white. I enjoy my interests, regular date nights, nights out with friends and still spend time and money keeping up my appearance. I also love my children. It’s not either/or.

Becoming 100% about your kids doesn’t make you a better parent!!

You can go to concerts and out to eat when you have the time and the money without it being your entire identity. I don’t feel like I have lost myself if I don’t go to a concert in a while.
And identifying yourself primarily as a wife and mother (whatever that looks like to you) DOES make you a better parent.

You know it's not just about going to a concert every once in awhile. It's about valuing your personal interests outside of being a parent. Obviously you prefer the martyr route and relish the idea of self-sacrifice but I personally enjoy being a mother to a toddler and also a lot of other things in life.

I think you can value your personal interests without them serving as your entire identity. I would feel like I lost myself if my children and spouse left me. I like going rowing, and I missed it the years I had small kids and couldn’t go, but I didn’t feel like I lost myself or my identity. It sounds like you feel the opposite. You like your spouse and your toddler, and you would miss them if they moved away, but you wouldn’t feel like you lost yourself. You would feel like you lost yourself and your identity if you couldn’t go to concerts or drinking with friends.
I don’t consider myself a martyr, just an adult. And I do think you have an adolescent mindset typical of “16 and pregnant “ crowd.

Wow, your worldview is so warped and judgmental. You can mischaracterize me all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Not that pp, but reread what you wrote and what prompted pp's reply to you. You come across as pretty darned judgmental yourself.

I think there were multiple posters. I don't think any of my comments were mean-spirited--I just wanted to point out that we don't have to see ourselves as sacrificing our "freedom" to parent young children. I continue to have personal interests outside of my child that, despite what the previous poster wants to believe, do not involve going to concerts or drinking. Although, more power to the moms who get to go to concerts! I'm just not cool enough.

You still have your own personal interests even after you have kids but unless you are able to drop your kids off with a regular sitter on a regular basis there is going to be a very real limit as to how often you will be free to pursue your own given interests. Sometimes you just plain have to wait until the kids are a bit older. It's not like you have kids and BAM! your whole life is over. But the reality is that little kids need a ton of supervision and unless you have a lot of excess income, you are not going to be able to SAH, AND outsource a lot of your childcare AND afford to go fun adult places and do fun adult things. It's just not practical.

Why do you need to afford childcare to go do fun adult things? Can’t your DH watch the kids once a week and give you a few hours on the weekend to go for a run, meet a girlfriend for brunch, read a book at a coffee shop, etc.? Just because you’re a SAHM doesn’t mean you’re on kid duty 24/7. I work, but even if I stopped working, I’d still expect DH to do his fair share outside of working hours. In dual income families, working parents still put in plenty of time with kids after work. I don’t understand SAHPs who let the working spouse off the hook for helping out just because they have a job. It’s totally possible to have a full time career and take care of the kids and house while your spouse gets a break.

If you are mommy 24/7 and not expecting your partner to give you a break, you’re doing it wrong.

I agree but sadly I’ve never met a household with a SAHM where the woman had an active social life and was as independent as her husband. Maybe this changes as kids get older but doesn’t seem to work this way for most families when kids are younger. Every SAHM I know is 100% about the kids, few interests, is treated like household help by her husband and has a husband who doesn’t do anything in terms of housework.

Well you haven't met me or any of my friends, and we are nothing like the SAHMs you describe.

It depends on what you consider an active social life. Working spouses do have more time for adults only business trips, after work cocktail hours, gym (sans kids) and their social lives aren't restricted to yoga class and lunch out with friends while the kids are in school.

I've actually really enjoyed being a SAHM. I had fun doing playgroups, volunteering at the school, hanging out at swim practice, doing Mommy and Me classes and taking the kids fun places with their friends like the zoo. I had a social life but it's a kid centered, daytime social life. Honestly, at night I just wanted to hang out with my husband and go to bed early because I knew that the kids would be up bright and early before the sun was up the next morning.

I pretty much know of no SAHMs who were free to go out on the town at night with their friends or were able to travel w/o kids in tow. When we traveled we traveled with our husband and kids. A few SAHMs that I knew traveled (with kids) to visit family over the summer while their husbands stayed at home and took care of work and projects around the house. In general, SAHPs generally socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. Working spouses interact with a broader range of people - empty nesters, young and single, parents of varying age ranges, etc.

I know because I worked for quite awhile before we had kids. There is a difference.

+1. Once in a while I go out for a girls night or weekend trip. My SAHM friends seem shocked.

That's because their husbands don't parent, yet they're the ones who come on these boards gloating about the importance of having a parent at home. I'm so glad my MIL worked so my DH would never see that as the norm.

I know a women whose husband has NEVER been alone with their 3 year old. Not ONCE.

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Anonymous wrote:I'd argue that most parents of young kids, working or no, socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. That's not just true of SAHMs. People tend to flock to others like themselves.

Really?
I have done both, and I found it very difficult to socialize much when I was working. I got up, did household chores, got myself ready, got kids ready, went to work, got my work done as quickly as possible so I could get out on time, typically eating lunch at my desk while writing notes and making phone calls. Then I picked up kids, made/ate dinner, played outside for a few minutes, put them to bed, then went to bed. I am a doctor, so I did interact with people all day long, but it wasn’t anything that I would consider “social.”
As a SAHM, I do a ton of socializing. Today, I will take my kids to the pool where I will sit with some mom friends and chat. Every Friday, I have a playgroup. Last week, my cousin and I drove out about 600 miles to see my sister and her family. Next week, I have a morning scheduled with the spouses of the people in DH’s department to socialize (and figure out vacations over the holidays). Later in the week, I have a three day camping trip planned with some girlfriends. Also, 2-3 days/wk I meet four other women and we go rowing.
I couldn’t do any of that socializing when I was working FT.

Do you regret not using your medical degree and training? Serious question.

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Anonymous wrote:I do not know any dual family homes with flexible jobs. Most people do not have flexibility in their jobs. Most are unfulfilled at their jobs. Most do not have job security. Most do not make tons of money. Most people work because their paycheck is required at home.

If you have the luxury of outsourcing your chores, making your kids lives stress free, flexibility of schedule to not have caretakers do the parenting, being there for your children all the time, not being run ragged yourself - you are very blessed and you are also an anomaly as a SAH/WOH/WAH parent. This scenario is not what is available to majority of parents in any capacity.

Really? I feel like almost everyone I know in the DC area has a flexible job unless they are big law and have a SAH spouse. I went into government (GS-14 fed attorney) and it’s very stable and flexible. DH is in IT consulting and a lot of that work is done remotely with flexible hours except client meetings. I feel like we are pretty typical for the area.

Obviously we know we are fortunate, but I wanted to provide a counter to the doomsday scenario presented where kids are left with strangers or ignored 24/7 by working parents, which is not standard of the working parents I know. Our kids do attend a high quality Montessori preschool, but I would not qualify that as caretakers doing “the parenting.” Even the SAHMs I’m friends with send their kids out for at least part time preschool. It’s honestly good for kids to get out a bit on their own.

Pretty much everyone I know has a relatively flexible job. SAHMs love to say it's impossible to justify their lifestyle.

Anonymous wrote:I enjoyed being SAHM all the time but then found a part-time job (24 hours) and love working part time. Something about having a schedule works for me and I like having a blend of SAH and WOH.

I have a similar arrangement. It's the best of both worlds. I work 24-30 hrs/week (mostly weekends, some weekdays while my preschooler is at school) and my schedule allows me to earn side income by freelancing.

I considered accepting a promotion with a "normal" schedule (8 hour workday, 5 days a week) early in my current pregnancy with baby #2. I decided to stick with the PT schedule for flexibility because
- our family's current financial situation and work/life balance is ok
- I didn't want to put a 3-4 month old in daycare in the middle of winter and risk having to miss work in my new position to care for a sick baby (or sick kids, because when one gets sick, the other usually gets sick, too)
- any salary increase would be eaten up by childcare costs and outsourcing things I already know how to do well and inexpensively
- too many changes at once stress me out. If I'm stressed, the family will get stressed
- I have a savings cushion from being financially responsible and can afford it without going into debt or heavily relying on my spouse's income

My profession is in a high-demand specialty, so I am confident that the ability to change gears and make more money will exist after the new baby is out of the infant/toddler phase. I sense this may be an anomaly in career-centric DC, but to me, a job is just a job. The ability to be there for your kids is a privilege and a luxury.

Anonymous wrote:I'd argue that most parents of young kids, working or no, socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. That's not just true of SAHMs. People tend to flock to others like themselves.

Really?
I have done both, and I found it very difficult to socialize much when I was working. I got up, did household chores, got myself ready, got kids ready, went to work, got my work done as quickly as possible so I could get out on time, typically eating lunch at my desk while writing notes and making phone calls. Then I picked up kids, made/ate dinner, played outside for a few minutes, put them to bed, then went to bed. I am a doctor, so I did interact with people all day long, but it wasn’t anything that I would consider “social.”
As a SAHM, I do a ton of socializing. Today, I will take my kids to the pool where I will sit with some mom friends and chat. Every Friday, I have a playgroup. Last week, my cousin and I drove out about 600 miles to see my sister and her family. Next week, I have a morning scheduled with the spouses of the people in DH’s department to socialize (and figure out vacations over the holidays). Later in the week, I have a three day camping trip planned with some girlfriends. Also, 2-3 days/wk I meet four other women and we go rowing.
I couldn’t do any of that socializing when I was working FT.

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Anonymous wrote:I do not know any dual family homes with flexible jobs. Most people do not have flexibility in their jobs. Most are unfulfilled at their jobs. Most do not have job security. Most do not make tons of money. Most people work because their paycheck is required at home.

If you have the luxury of outsourcing your chores, making your kids lives stress free, flexibility of schedule to not have caretakers do the parenting, being there for your children all the time, not being run ragged yourself - you are very blessed and you are also an anomaly as a SAH/WOH/WAH parent. This scenario is not what is available to majority of parents in any capacity.

Really? I feel like almost everyone I know in the DC area has a flexible job unless they are big law and have a SAH spouse. I went into government (GS-14 fed attorney) and it’s very stable and flexible. DH is in IT consulting and a lot of that work is done remotely with flexible hours except client meetings. I feel like we are pretty typical for the area.

Obviously we know we are fortunate, but I wanted to provide a counter to the doomsday scenario presented where kids are left with strangers or ignored 24/7 by working parents, which is not standard of the working parents I know. Our kids do attend a high quality Montessori preschool, but I would not qualify that as caretakers doing “the parenting.” Even the SAHMs I’m friends with send their kids out for at least part time preschool. It’s honestly good for kids to get out a bit on their own.

+1. My whole circle is dual income professionals with flex. Lots of regular WFH days and flex schedules.

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Anonymous wrote:I do not know any dual family homes with flexible jobs. Most people do not have flexibility in their jobs. Most are unfulfilled at their jobs. Most do not have job security. Most do not make tons of money. Most people work because their paycheck is required at home.

If you have the luxury of outsourcing your chores, making your kids lives stress free, flexibility of schedule to not have caretakers do the parenting, being there for your children all the time, not being run ragged yourself - you are very blessed and you are also an anomaly as a SAH/WOH/WAH parent. This scenario is not what is available to majority of parents in any capacity.

Really? I feel like almost everyone I know in the DC area has a flexible job unless they are big law and have a SAH spouse. I went into government (GS-14 fed attorney) and it’s very stable and flexible. DH is in IT consulting and a lot of that work is done remotely with flexible hours except client meetings. I feel like we are pretty typical for the area.

Obviously we know we are fortunate, but I wanted to provide a counter to the doomsday scenario presented where kids are left with strangers or ignored 24/7 by working parents, which is not standard of the working parents I know. Our kids do attend a high quality Montessori preschool, but I would not qualify that as caretakers doing “the parenting.” Even the SAHMs I’m friends with send their kids out for at least part time preschool. It’s honestly good for kids to get out a bit on their own.

Sorry you wound really naive to the point of stupidity here.

Also do ya'll even crack 400k? I wouldn't consider you to be "high earners." Middle class at best in the DC area.

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Anonymous wrote:Resentment to DH as stated upthread, but also the resentment towards WOH moms whose kids are in daycare. I'm sorry if I'm not feeling chipper and enthusiastic like you - You are "refreshed" and haven't been with your kids since the moment they work up like a SAHM. So, yea, I am a bit burnt out by the time it is 430pm - my kids have been awake for the last 8+ hours and bedtime isn't for another 4 hours. Those 12 hrs days get long even with screen time mixed in (gasp!), outings/playground/nature center, playdates, etc. 24/7.

Yeah, I'm so refreshed after a long day at work. If working is so easy why don't you just go back?

Ha. Not that pp, but I used to envy the adult conversation that dh had at work, as well as, his ability to focus on something for longer than 3 minutes w/o a baby or toddler interrupting him. I even envied his "alone time" during his commute into work.

I can laugh at it now but, at the time, when simply going to the bathroom all by myself was not easy those were some very real feelings.

Yes!! I cried last week when my husband returned from a business trip (four hours of sweet silence each way on the Acela) and casually showed me video of some dumb Grateful Dead cover band playing in a bar he’d gone to after his meetings. I can’t remember the last time I was at a bar, or saw live music that wasn’t kid-themed, or had a beer without one eyeball following a toddler around the room. I bawled like a crazy person and he didn’t get it. At all.

Like this thread points out there are so many things about my daily SAHM routine that I need to value now. But there are also issues of dignity and basic human needs that are so tough. I don’t poop alone, ever. I rarely get a full shower/blow dry. I have to ask permission and move mountains to go to the doctor. I feel like a servant, a nanny. My marriage has suffered.

I am also so grateful to lay with my kids while they nap, and to see our city through them, and to have found part time work that I’m proud of.

This is pathetic. Stop being a mommy martyr. Hire yourself a babysitter. Have date nights. Go and see live music. Have your hair done. You don’t have to give up your life because you have some kids. Eventually they will be in school. Then what?

It's a stage of life pp. They aren't little forever and you do get your freedom back eventually. Dh & I really didn't need to go out on date nights because once the kids were sleeping through the night we would put them to bed (7pm) and have the rest of the evening together. We made it work.

Flash forward a couple of decades later - dh and I do go bar hopping on occasion, we see live music, we even stay out overnight if we want to. It does get easier. But I still remember what it was like to be in the trenches of parenting small children.

Good job losing your identity!!!

The only people who feel that their identity is wrapped up in which concerts they see or how they consume alcohol are teenagers or adults who wish they were still teenagers.
Go be something, do something, or make something, pp. Stop identifying yourself by your favorite band.

So in your opinion the choices are:

1. Quit any hobbies, no date nights, minimal personal grooming

OR

2. Stay an adolescent identifying yourself by your favorite band??

It’s sad you see motherhood as so black or white. I enjoy my interests, regular date nights, nights out with friends and still spend time and money keeping up my appearance. I also love my children. It’s not either/or.

Becoming 100% about your kids doesn’t make you a better parent!!

You can go to concerts and out to eat when you have the time and the money without it being your entire identity. I don’t feel like I have lost myself if I don’t go to a concert in a while.
And identifying yourself primarily as a wife and mother (whatever that looks like to you) DOES make you a better parent.

You know it's not just about going to a concert every once in awhile. It's about valuing your personal interests outside of being a parent. Obviously you prefer the martyr route and relish the idea of self-sacrifice but I personally enjoy being a mother to a toddler and also a lot of other things in life.

I think you can value your personal interests without them serving as your entire identity. I would feel like I lost myself if my children and spouse left me. I like going rowing, and I missed it the years I had small kids and couldn’t go, but I didn’t feel like I lost myself or my identity. It sounds like you feel the opposite. You like your spouse and your toddler, and you would miss them if they moved away, but you wouldn’t feel like you lost yourself. You would feel like you lost yourself and your identity if you couldn’t go to concerts or drinking with friends.
I don’t consider myself a martyr, just an adult. And I do think you have an adolescent mindset typical of “16 and pregnant “ crowd.

Wow, your worldview is so warped and judgmental. You can mischaracterize me all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Not that pp, but reread what you wrote and what prompted pp's reply to you. You come across as pretty darned judgmental yourself.

I think there were multiple posters. I don't think any of my comments were mean-spirited--I just wanted to point out that we don't have to see ourselves as sacrificing our "freedom" to parent young children. I continue to have personal interests outside of my child that, despite what the previous poster wants to believe, do not involve going to concerts or drinking. Although, more power to the moms who get to go to concerts! I'm just not cool enough.

You still have your own personal interests even after you have kids but unless you are able to drop your kids off with a regular sitter on a regular basis there is going to be a very real limit as to how often you will be free to pursue your own given interests. Sometimes you just plain have to wait until the kids are a bit older. It's not like you have kids and BAM! your whole life is over. But the reality is that little kids need a ton of supervision and unless you have a lot of excess income, you are not going to be able to SAH, AND outsource a lot of your childcare AND afford to go fun adult places and do fun adult things. It's just not practical.

Why do you need to afford childcare to go do fun adult things? Can’t your DH watch the kids once a week and give you a few hours on the weekend to go for a run, meet a girlfriend for brunch, read a book at a coffee shop, etc.? Just because you’re a SAHM doesn’t mean you’re on kid duty 24/7. I work, but even if I stopped working, I’d still expect DH to do his fair share outside of working hours. In dual income families, working parents still put in plenty of time with kids after work. I don’t understand SAHPs who let the working spouse off the hook for helping out just because they have a job. It’s totally possible to have a full time career and take care of the kids and house while your spouse gets a break.

If you are mommy 24/7 and not expecting your partner to give you a break, you’re doing it wrong.

I agree but sadly I’ve never met a household with a SAHM where the woman had an active social life and was as independent as her husband. Maybe this changes as kids get older but doesn’t seem to work this way for most families when kids are younger. Every SAHM I know is 100% about the kids, few interests, is treated like household help by her husband and has a husband who doesn’t do anything in terms of housework.

Well you haven't met me or any of my friends, and we are nothing like the SAHMs you describe.

It depends on what you consider an active social life. Working spouses do have more time for adults only business trips, after work cocktail hours, gym (sans kids) and their social lives aren't restricted to yoga class and lunch out with friends while the kids are in school.

I've actually really enjoyed being a SAHM. I had fun doing playgroups, volunteering at the school, hanging out at swim practice, doing Mommy and Me classes and taking the kids fun places with their friends like the zoo. I had a social life but it's a kid centered, daytime social life. Honestly, at night I just wanted to hang out with my husband and go to bed early because I knew that the kids would be up bright and early before the sun was up the next morning.

I pretty much know of no SAHMs who were free to go out on the town at night with their friends or were able to travel w/o kids in tow. When we traveled we traveled with our husband and kids. A few SAHMs that I knew traveled (with kids) to visit family over the summer while their husbands stayed at home and took care of work and projects around the house. In general, SAHPs generally socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. Working spouses interact with a broader range of people - empty nesters, young and single, parents of varying age ranges, etc.

I know because I worked for quite awhile before we had kids. There is a difference.

+1. Once in a while I go out for a girls night or weekend trip. My SAHM friends seem shocked.

eh, I don't think that most SAHMs are truly shocked that you have the flexibility to do so. You have full time quality childcare in place already and the extra money to afford to take a girls' trip. It's a perk that comes along with the territory of working full time. Your husband takes over evening/weekend duty while you're away.

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Anonymous wrote:Resentment to DH as stated upthread, but also the resentment towards WOH moms whose kids are in daycare. I'm sorry if I'm not feeling chipper and enthusiastic like you - You are "refreshed" and haven't been with your kids since the moment they work up like a SAHM. So, yea, I am a bit burnt out by the time it is 430pm - my kids have been awake for the last 8+ hours and bedtime isn't for another 4 hours. Those 12 hrs days get long even with screen time mixed in (gasp!), outings/playground/nature center, playdates, etc. 24/7.

Yeah, I'm so refreshed after a long day at work. If working is so easy why don't you just go back?

Ha. Not that pp, but I used to envy the adult conversation that dh had at work, as well as, his ability to focus on something for longer than 3 minutes w/o a baby or toddler interrupting him. I even envied his "alone time" during his commute into work.

I can laugh at it now but, at the time, when simply going to the bathroom all by myself was not easy those were some very real feelings.

Yes!! I cried last week when my husband returned from a business trip (four hours of sweet silence each way on the Acela) and casually showed me video of some dumb Grateful Dead cover band playing in a bar he’d gone to after his meetings. I can’t remember the last time I was at a bar, or saw live music that wasn’t kid-themed, or had a beer without one eyeball following a toddler around the room. I bawled like a crazy person and he didn’t get it. At all.

Like this thread points out there are so many things about my daily SAHM routine that I need to value now. But there are also issues of dignity and basic human needs that are so tough. I don’t poop alone, ever. I rarely get a full shower/blow dry. I have to ask permission and move mountains to go to the doctor. I feel like a servant, a nanny. My marriage has suffered.

I am also so grateful to lay with my kids while they nap, and to see our city through them, and to have found part time work that I’m proud of.

This is pathetic. Stop being a mommy martyr. Hire yourself a babysitter. Have date nights. Go and see live music. Have your hair done. You don’t have to give up your life because you have some kids. Eventually they will be in school. Then what?

It's a stage of life pp. They aren't little forever and you do get your freedom back eventually. Dh & I really didn't need to go out on date nights because once the kids were sleeping through the night we would put them to bed (7pm) and have the rest of the evening together. We made it work.

Flash forward a couple of decades later - dh and I do go bar hopping on occasion, we see live music, we even stay out overnight if we want to. It does get easier. But I still remember what it was like to be in the trenches of parenting small children.

Good job losing your identity!!!

The only people who feel that their identity is wrapped up in which concerts they see or how they consume alcohol are teenagers or adults who wish they were still teenagers.
Go be something, do something, or make something, pp. Stop identifying yourself by your favorite band.

So in your opinion the choices are:

1. Quit any hobbies, no date nights, minimal personal grooming

OR

2. Stay an adolescent identifying yourself by your favorite band??

It’s sad you see motherhood as so black or white. I enjoy my interests, regular date nights, nights out with friends and still spend time and money keeping up my appearance. I also love my children. It’s not either/or.

Becoming 100% about your kids doesn’t make you a better parent!!

You can go to concerts and out to eat when you have the time and the money without it being your entire identity. I don’t feel like I have lost myself if I don’t go to a concert in a while.
And identifying yourself primarily as a wife and mother (whatever that looks like to you) DOES make you a better parent.

You know it's not just about going to a concert every once in awhile. It's about valuing your personal interests outside of being a parent. Obviously you prefer the martyr route and relish the idea of self-sacrifice but I personally enjoy being a mother to a toddler and also a lot of other things in life.

I think you can value your personal interests without them serving as your entire identity. I would feel like I lost myself if my children and spouse left me. I like going rowing, and I missed it the years I had small kids and couldn’t go, but I didn’t feel like I lost myself or my identity. It sounds like you feel the opposite. You like your spouse and your toddler, and you would miss them if they moved away, but you wouldn’t feel like you lost yourself. You would feel like you lost yourself and your identity if you couldn’t go to concerts or drinking with friends.
I don’t consider myself a martyr, just an adult. And I do think you have an adolescent mindset typical of “16 and pregnant “ crowd.

Wow, your worldview is so warped and judgmental. You can mischaracterize me all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Not that pp, but reread what you wrote and what prompted pp's reply to you. You come across as pretty darned judgmental yourself.

I think there were multiple posters. I don't think any of my comments were mean-spirited--I just wanted to point out that we don't have to see ourselves as sacrificing our "freedom" to parent young children. I continue to have personal interests outside of my child that, despite what the previous poster wants to believe, do not involve going to concerts or drinking. Although, more power to the moms who get to go to concerts! I'm just not cool enough.

You still have your own personal interests even after you have kids but unless you are able to drop your kids off with a regular sitter on a regular basis there is going to be a very real limit as to how often you will be free to pursue your own given interests. Sometimes you just plain have to wait until the kids are a bit older. It's not like you have kids and BAM! your whole life is over. But the reality is that little kids need a ton of supervision and unless you have a lot of excess income, you are not going to be able to SAH, AND outsource a lot of your childcare AND afford to go fun adult places and do fun adult things. It's just not practical.

Why do you need to afford childcare to go do fun adult things? Can’t your DH watch the kids once a week and give you a few hours on the weekend to go for a run, meet a girlfriend for brunch, read a book at a coffee shop, etc.? Just because you’re a SAHM doesn’t mean you’re on kid duty 24/7. I work, but even if I stopped working, I’d still expect DH to do his fair share outside of working hours. In dual income families, working parents still put in plenty of time with kids after work. I don’t understand SAHPs who let the working spouse off the hook for helping out just because they have a job. It’s totally possible to have a full time career and take care of the kids and house while your spouse gets a break.

If you are mommy 24/7 and not expecting your partner to give you a break, you’re doing it wrong.

I agree but sadly I’ve never met a household with a SAHM where the woman had an active social life and was as independent as her husband. Maybe this changes as kids get older but doesn’t seem to work this way for most families when kids are younger. Every SAHM I know is 100% about the kids, few interests, is treated like household help by her husband and has a husband who doesn’t do anything in terms of housework.

Well you haven't met me or any of my friends, and we are nothing like the SAHMs you describe.

It depends on what you consider an active social life. Working spouses do have more time for adults only business trips, after work cocktail hours, gym (sans kids) and their social lives aren't restricted to yoga class and lunch out with friends while the kids are in school.

I've actually really enjoyed being a SAHM. I had fun doing playgroups, volunteering at the school, hanging out at swim practice, doing Mommy and Me classes and taking the kids fun places with their friends like the zoo. I had a social life but it's a kid centered, daytime social life. Honestly, at night I just wanted to hang out with my husband and go to bed early because I knew that the kids would be up bright and early before the sun was up the next morning.

I pretty much know of no SAHMs who were free to go out on the town at night with their friends or were able to travel w/o kids in tow. When we traveled we traveled with our husband and kids. A few SAHMs that I knew traveled (with kids) to visit family over the summer while their husbands stayed at home and took care of work and projects around the house. In general, SAHPs generally socialize with family and other parents with similar age kids. Working spouses interact with a broader range of people - empty nesters, young and single, parents of varying age ranges, etc.

I know because I worked for quite awhile before we had kids. There is a difference.

+1. Once in a while I go out for a girls night or weekend trip. My SAHM friends seem shocked.

Anonymous wrote:I do not know any dual family homes with flexible jobs. Most people do not have flexibility in their jobs. Most are unfulfilled at their jobs. Most do not have job security. Most do not make tons of money. Most people work because their paycheck is required at home.

If you have the luxury of outsourcing your chores, making your kids lives stress free, flexibility of schedule to not have caretakers do the parenting, being there for your children all the time, not being run ragged yourself - you are very blessed and you are also an anomaly as a SAH/WOH/WAH parent. This scenario is not what is available to majority of parents in any capacity.

Really? I feel like almost everyone I know in the DC area has a flexible job unless they are big law and have a SAH spouse. I went into government (GS-14 fed attorney) and it’s very stable and flexible. DH is in IT consulting and a lot of that work is done remotely with flexible hours except client meetings. I feel like we are pretty typical for the area.

Obviously we know we are fortunate, but I wanted to provide a counter to the doomsday scenario presented where kids are left with strangers or ignored 24/7 by working parents, which is not standard of the working parents I know. Our kids do attend a high quality Montessori preschool, but I would not qualify that as caretakers doing “the parenting.” Even the SAHMs I’m friends with send their kids out for at least part time preschool. It’s honestly good for kids to get out a bit on their own.