PP here, and furthermore, about careers.

Men above have indicated that a woman's career is not important to them in terms of attractiveness. Okay, so:

If a woman spends to much time/effort/whatever on her career, that's not attractive, and she's probably too old by the time she's looking to settle down and get married anyway.

If a woman de-emphasizes her career and financial independence in favor of looking pretty and finding a husband, great, she gets married, but then if the husband decides to divorce her, then tough luck, she's on her own.

You see why we need feminism. It isn't about retaliating, it isn't about telling you what you are supposed to like and telling you that you are sexist and bigoted if you don't find purple-haired, tattooed, 300-lb women attractive.

It's simply acknowledging logic and accepting that women are human beings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it like every woman even cares about what men want? That seems to be the major thrust of the replies. [Sure, women spend billions of dollars a year trying to make themselves attractive to men, but they don't care what men want. ]

OK, you guys can dream on. In the end, women hold the cards.

Until the women hit age 30, and then the shoe is on the other foot.

30? I’m curious as to how old you are. Do you think you’ll still be able to snag hot young women once you’re in middle age? Or maybe you’re already there.

Unless you’re wealthy, they won’t want you.

Sorry. That’s just how it is.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm old, not wealthy at all, and I do fine with women. Only really young women hold all the cards.

And they usually waste those cards on hookups with hawt guys rather than using their cards to find a quality husband and start a family.

When will men take responsibility for themselves for anything?

Let's say I buy into this sexism. What is a woman supposed to do? Why do men get to have their cake and eat it too?

If a woman is not young (say, to you probably, over 30) it's all over for her because men want a young, hot woman in her 20s. If she's over 30 and still in good shape and hot, too bad, she won't be fertile for long enough.

If a woman is in her 20s, she has to "play her cards" and "find a quality husband." Okay. But if she hurries up and finds a husband and its the wrong guy, and gets divorced, then she's in the above over-30 category and needs to "start her cat collection." Her fault.
If she wants to wait until she finds the right person, and it takes her until well until her 30s....same thing.

And let's take the young, hot, 25 year old.
She wants a relationship, so she avoids hookups. Tough luck, because guys want to test drive the vehicle before they buy it. Good luck finding a guy who will stay interested after you withhold sex for more than three dates.
So she gives in and hooks up. Too bad, some of the guys got what they wanted and don't pursue a relationship, now her "number" is too high to be desirable as a wife. Her fault.

So what is the correct path, according to your logic, to "playing her cards and finding a husband"? Having your parents introduce you to a suitor at church? Is that the only way?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it like every woman even cares about what men want? That seems to be the major thrust of the replies. [Sure, women spend billions of dollars a year trying to make themselves attractive to men, but they don't care what men want. ]

OK, you guys can dream on. In the end, women hold the cards.

Until the women hit age 30, and then the shoe is on the other foot.

30? I’m curious as to how old you are. Do you think you’ll still be able to snag hot young women once you’re in middle age? Or maybe you’re already there.

Unless you’re wealthy, they won’t want you.

Sorry. That’s just how it is.

I'm 55. Make a good income but not "wealthy". Divorced and dating a hot woman who is 37. Sorry to burst your bubble about "how it is".

Anonymous wrote:I already did. Now he's stuck with my haggy post-30 ass. Poor man, he didn't realize that LOOKS ARE ALL AND ALL ARE LOOKS. He lacked the input of the middle-aged DCUM incels who just picked up their first copy of David Buss.

He's not stuck with you. If you got divorced, he'd find someone younger, hotter, and tighter, and you'd have to start your cat collection.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it like every woman even cares about what men want? That seems to be the major thrust of the replies. [Sure, women spend billions of dollars a year trying to make themselves attractive to men, but they don't care what men want. ]

OK, you guys can dream on. In the end, women hold the cards.

Until the women hit age 30, and then the shoe is on the other foot.

30? I’m curious as to how old you are. Do you think you’ll still be able to snag hot young women once you’re in middle age? Or maybe you’re already there.

Unless you’re wealthy, they won’t want you.

Sorry. That’s just how it is.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm old, not wealthy at all, and I do fine with women. Only really young women hold all the cards.

And they usually waste those cards on hookups with hawt guys rather than using their cards to find a quality husband and start a family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking honestly here as an attractive woman, a former model. It IS more than looks.

Looks may be the first thing that gets attention, yes, but only up to a point.

I am an attractive woman. I have a nice face and a great figure. But I'm eccentric and often a bitch, being perfectly honest here. I've had zero trouble getting first and sometimes second dates, but a lot of trouble getting a guy to stick around. I'm the woman that men want to sleep with or even cheat on their significant others with, but I'm not the one they want as a long term girlfriend or wife. When I let on that I'm interested in something more than sex, the guy backs away every time.

And I know full well what I need to work on and why this happens, why I attract @rseholes or why nice guys won't stay with me. I'm too self centered. I'm too weirdly into my own things. I talk too much. I'm high-strung and annoying. I'm not a "chill girl" who is easygoing and "cool with whatever."

At the end of the day, I am skinny and attractive, and have no long term relationships to speak of.

The girls next door, who dress casually, wear less makeup, might have a few flaws according to beauty conventions, may carry a few extra pounds - they have boyfriends, fiances, and husbands.

Just the truth.

You have a self esteem problem and unfortunately, there are equal numbers on both sides. And I like to add, there are just as many of those "nice chill girls" that end up divorced or in bad marriages in the end.

Be you.

+1. I’m a chill girl. Not typical beauty, but good looking in my own way. Have been in two very long term relationships (5+ years) where guys were eager to marry (more eager than I). I had to end both of them because, at the end of the day, both guys were “good guys” on the surface but abusive underneath. My main lesson learned is to be a lot less chill and more demanding in a relationship and quicker to judge whether a person is a good match for ME.

You be you.

Anonymous wrote:Is it like every woman even cares about what men want? That seems to be the major thrust of the replies.

OK, you guys can dream on. In the end, women hold the cards.

]]So far from the truth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it like every woman even cares about what men want? That seems to be the major thrust of the replies. [Sure, women spend billions of dollars a year trying to make themselves attractive to men, but they don't care what men want. ]

OK, you guys can dream on. In the end, women hold the cards.

Until the women hit age 30, and then the shoe is on the other foot.

30? I’m curious as to how old you are. Do you think you’ll still be able to snag hot young women once you’re in middle age? Or maybe you’re already there.

Unless you’re wealthy, they won’t want you.

Sorry. That’s just how it is.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm old, not wealthy at all, and I do fine with women. Only really young women hold all the cards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it like every woman even cares about what men want? That seems to be the major thrust of the replies. [Sure, women spend billions of dollars a year trying to make themselves attractive to men, but they don't care what men want. ]

OK, you guys can dream on. In the end, women hold the cards.

Until the women hit age 30, and then the shoe is on the other foot.

30? I’m curious as to how old you are. Do you think you’ll still be able to snag hot young women once you’re in middle age? Or maybe you’re already there.

Unless you’re wealthy, they won’t want you.

Sorry. That’s just how it is.

Well do you think you will snag some rich man if you do nit have the looks? Right back at you.

I already did. Now he's stuck with my haggy post-30 ass. Poor man, he didn't realize that LOOKS ARE ALL AND ALL ARE LOOKS. He lacked the input of the middle-aged DCUM incels who just picked up their first copy of David Buss.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it like every woman even cares about what men want? That seems to be the major thrust of the replies. [Sure, women spend billions of dollars a year trying to make themselves attractive to men, but they don't care what men want. ]

OK, you guys can dream on. In the end, women hold the cards.

Until the women hit age 30, and then the shoe is on the other foot.

30? I’m curious as to how old you are. Do you think you’ll still be able to snag hot young women once you’re in middle age? Or maybe you’re already there.

Unless you’re wealthy, they won’t want you.

Sorry. That’s just how it is.

Well do you think you will snag some rich man if you do nit have the looks? Right back at you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. The men responding are refreshingly accurate. I’m a woman and I try to make some of their points to other women at times when this type of discussion emerges. Men like what they like. They don’t want women that were slutty. They don’t want someone they aren’t attracted to. They don’t want someone that isn’t good in bed. They don’t want someone complicated or high-maintenance. And what each of those things look like will differ from man to man. Some get it, some don’t. But whether you understand it or not, and even with exceptions to the rule, the truth is what it is. A woman’s reasoning or challenging the difference doesn’t change the fact that most men are truly as simple as a lot of the points being made.

People are challenging the broadness of the statements, because we all know many people whose tastes don’t hew to some mythical bottom line.

Those challenges are examples of exceptions to the rule, which ironically still prove the rule.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it like every woman even cares about what men want? That seems to be the major thrust of the replies. [Sure, women spend billions of dollars a year trying to make themselves attractive to men, but they don't care what men want. ]

OK, you guys can dream on. In the end, women hold the cards.

Until the women hit age 30, and then the shoe is on the other foot.

30? I’m curious as to how old you are. Do you think you’ll still be able to snag hot young women once you’re in middle age? Or maybe you’re already there.

Unless you’re wealthy, they won’t want you.

Sorry. That’s just how it is.

Anonymous wrote:Speaking honestly here as an attractive woman, a former model. It IS more than looks.

Looks may be the first thing that gets attention, yes, but only up to a point.

I am an attractive woman. I have a nice face and a great figure. But I'm eccentric and often a bitch, being perfectly honest here. I've had zero trouble getting first and sometimes second dates, but a lot of trouble getting a guy to stick around. I'm the woman that men want to sleep with or even cheat on their significant others with, but I'm not the one they want as a long term girlfriend or wife. When I let on that I'm interested in something more than sex, the guy backs away every time.

And I know full well what I need to work on and why this happens, why I attract @rseholes or why nice guys won't stay with me. I'm too self centered. I'm too weirdly into my own things. I talk too much. I'm high-strung and annoying. I'm not a "chill girl" who is easygoing and "cool with whatever."

At the end of the day, I am skinny and attractive, and have no long term relationships to speak of.

The girls next door, who dress casually, wear less makeup, might have a few flaws according to beauty conventions, may carry a few extra pounds - they have boyfriends, fiances, and husbands.

Just the truth.

You have a self esteem problem and unfortunately, there are equal numbers on both sides. And I like to add, there are just as many of those "nice chill girls" that end up divorced or in bad marriages in the end.

Be you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh whatever red pull/blue pull, I pull both colors off quite well in the right hue.

Men not interested in intellect are major losers. Sure, objective attraction matters but attraction is more than Barbie. Any man who states otherwise, is a fool not getting any female attention without the carrot of his wallet.

Like many women in this thread and on DCUM, you are missing the point.

Men are interested in intellect... and a lot of the other things like career and education... AFTER she meets the basic standard of attraction.

A woman who is a total beast can have a great intellect and it will not matter because he will not be attracted. He will look at her and there will be no lead in his pencil. Any man who states otherwise is lying. Any woman who thinks this is not true is deluded about men. A man who needs a woman to meet a certain level of "attractiveness" regardless of her other qualities is not a "loser".

Frankly you sound like a bitter female who has been rejected for being physically unattractive and now blames men for not being attracted to her supposed intellect.

So how do you account for all the plain women (“beasts” in your estimation, I guess) who are partnered?

Although anyone who calls women “females” is probably uninterested in discussion.

Not the PP but I will answer. Beauty is subjective, of course. One man's beast is another man's beauty. I have friends who are only attracted to the type of women I find unattractive and they don't like the type I go for. That's one explanation. Also, he could have married beauty, only to end up stuck with a beast in later life. To be fair, that works both ways and this forum is full of those threads.

Regardless, this thread is not about partnered couples, but what qualities are most attractive to men. I interpret that question to mean, if I was looking for a partner, what attracts me. Not, is it still possible to be attracted to someone who has let themselves go? But like most such threads, some women just can't resist trying to answer for the men and tell us what we should be thinking. Intellect, career, and education are all fine things in a woman, or any person. But they are not at the top of the list for attraction.

So please, stop your womansplaining.

I guess it's hard for some guys to accept that this is just the way women are, we are what we are, it's simple, don't try to change us!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is depressing. I don't think that for men it is just about attraction to beauty, I think there's more at play. I think it's about status, and for men to have a beautiful girlfriend is a measure of status. In other words, I don't think it's biological, I think this is mostly societal.

When I was a kid in middle school and high school, the girls were absolutely as obsessed with boys' looks as the boys were about girls - if not more so! All girls talked about was who was hot and why. The most popular boys were HOT and had good bodies.

So what changed? Did biology take over when you graduated and got a bit older? No. Society kicks in, and by the time you're 18, the message has been stuffed down your throat that male status comes from money/power and women's status is from beauty and youth. This is mostly societally driven, and most evolutionary biology theories are discredited and have little weight. So men when you say "it's just the way I feel," try to use your brain a little and realize that it goes deeper than that.

Sadly, a lot of you are fathers and seem to think there's nothing wrong with your daughters having no other value than their beauty.

Another sad female effort to tell men what they should want, and to shame them for wanting what they actually want. Have we mentioned that we don't care? You're like a 5' tall guy trying to convince women they should not be attracted to 6' tall men.

It is not social. Men are hard-wired for attraction to youth and beauty. The "social" benefit is the result, not the cause - you gain status because you have acquired the biologically valuable resource.

No man here is saying they tell their daughters their only value is their beauty, so get lost with that stupid straw man.

+1

Physical attraction is not social and is in fact universal. It is not determined by culture. The same men and women who turn heads on Constitution Avenue will turn heads walking through a Yanomamo Indian village or any place else. It's just the way it is.

As a man, I've always been puzzled that women think they get to decide for us who we should be attracted to and date. Nonsense. The only woman who gets a vote is the woman I approach. The rest of you are irrelevant.

This is both correct and incorrect. There is an underlying universal & biological concept of beauty, but its manifestations are determined by culture. Another factor is rarity, e.g., a desirable attribute that stands out and is coveted because most people living in their surroundings don't have it.
What holds to be universal is health, fertility (generally meaning youth), apparent capacity to perform tasks necessary to maintain the family/household/lifestyle that the man desires, with a premium on possessing an attractive characteristic that is hard to find in one's surroundings which denotes prosperity in some form.

Examples are where it's desirable by culture:

Tribes of the Central Asian steppe valued women with strong legs, since they are expected to labor in the fields and pull a plow, etc.

Certain African countries/tribes (Mauritania comes to mind) like very overweight women. It shows they have access to food and comfort and signifies wealth.

Eastern European women are very thin because thinness=youth, meaning they are not at the age yet where they become a babushka, a transformation that happens starkly and quickly.

South Asia is somewhere in between, when it comes to weight. Generally moderate plumpness has been desirable for women, but more western-looking circles desire thin women.

In the West, a lot of the preference for thinner women is socioeconomic. Same with skin tone (for white people). Over 100 years ago, it was attractive to be fair and plump, because that meant you were of the leisure class who was not laboring out in the fields. Now, it is desirable to be tanned and thin, because it means you have the resources (and also discipline) to work out, eat healthy (which is more expensive), be outside or afford nice vacations. A pale, fat person denotes a depressing 9-5 deskbound lifestyle full of cheap takeout.