Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you making fish for dinner when you know that your DD doesn't like it?

For most families, I completely 100% believe that a parent shouldn't cook to cater to a child's taste, and that kids should eat what their parents eat, but come on! Your child is in grave medical danger. This is nowhere close to a normal situation.

It stinks, I am sure, to have to think this way about every meal and every snack your family has, but you can't really afford to lapse here.

If you want to eat fish, eat it when she's at school. But at home, I would be making pizzas, tacos, or whatever food she might actually eat.

Also, please feed her right after the ballet class. Do you allow her to eat food in the car? Bring a milkshake for her to consume when you pick her up.

Yes I feed her right after class. Usually a heavy snack, breakfast sandwich from Starbucks, or quesadilla. We have snacks in the car but not always. That hS changed recently. I now keep protein bars and trail mix in the car always. We eat fish because it’s healthy and when we do, she gets to choose whatever protein we have on hand. She likes the choice. Usually leftover chicken, steak, eggs, or cheese. Sometimes a chicken pot pie or burrito. Yesterday she wanted cheese because she was still full from her snack. We don’t starve her so we can have fish. Jeez. But eating fish is modeling good behavior too even if she wants something else.

OP, your take on "modeling good behavior" is NOT WORKING. BTW, your daughter is technically starving. Do you get that? When you don't offer a meal--not just cheese cubes--that she will eat, you are enabling her disordered eating by sending the message that it is OK for her to have a small snack at dinner. You need to re-orient how you present food and food choices. The normal "healthy" rules do not apply to your household. Stop pretending that they do.

.

First thing I thought when I read OP’s reply. Modeling good behavior is not appropriate in this situation. This is beyond “healthy choices.”

OMG everyone needs to lay off PP and acting like she must immobilize and force-feed her child cheeseburgers or else. I am pretty attuned to people's writing styles that suggest they are pushing their eating issues onto their kids, and I see nothing at all of that in OP's statements. All I see is that she has rather disjointed care at Children's, without being given a good sense of plan A and plan B, and when this becomes a medical crisis that would necessitate a feeding tube. (Which - is not surprising about Childrens. Over on the special needs board you can talk to MANY parents who deal with issues at Childrens with coordination of care and administrative issues.)

The thing OP should do is beat down the DOCTOR'S door to figure out why things are so serious as to have the feeding tube on the table. OP's original question was borne out of the confusion of the mixed messages she's getting from her DD's team. On the one hand -- keep going and come back in 3 months! On the other hand -- we may have to do a feeding tube! Those two things don't really match up.

If I were OP I'd also get a second opinion with respect to the eating disorder, at CHOP or in Boston or wherever the #1 eating disorder place is.

I’m 11:48 from the first day. I am quite short compared to my parents. I remember not liking the foods my mom served for dinner for many years. It was very basic, lean food. Guess what - she stayed slim all those years, and I was a short, skinny kid. When she went back to work and relied more on convenience cooking, I grew more.

My point is that just as some families overeat, and the entire family has a skewed idea of normal eating, some families undereat and have a skewed idea of normal eating. The foods that allow you to be a slim adult are NOT the foods that will get your child out of her malnourished state, ESPECIALLY if she has can only eat a small quantity at a time.

For starters, dinners should be closer to beef stroganoff, lasagna, enchiladas. The dinners you describe are for adults trying to lose 5 pounds. Next, consider actors who need to gain weight for a role. Are they eating fish and veggies? No?

Feed your daughter like she needs to gain 40 pounds. I hear you about constitutional growth delay, but you need to at least point yourself in the right direction. That would be 500-600 calories at breakfast, 700 calories at lunch, 300-400 calories after school, another 700 calories at dinner, and 300-400 calories for a bedtime snack. I bet if you counted up now, she’s eating a fraction of that, both due to quantity and lack of calorie density.

My daughter’s afternoon snack is 3 tablespoons of almond butter (which equals 300 calories) plus some grapes. She dips the grapes in the almond butter, sometimes using it as a utensil, so re-dipping the grapes and eating almond butter off it. We allow her to leave a few grapes. We do not allow her to leave any almond butter, no matter how much her stomach hurts.

By the way, some of the stomach pain/“lack of appetite” has turned out to be anxiety. Not anxiety because I’m being harsh and I need to lay off. Anxiety because she doesn’t WANT to eat more/gain weight. Hello anorexia and/or malnourished brain.

The only way out is through. The brain heals after if is nourished (months after, by the way).

Her DD's height is not as much of an issue as is her weight. In fact her DD is only 2 inches shorter than average girl her age.
https://go4fun.com.au/why/bmi-calculator

Anonymous wrote:Oh my gosh, please lay off the OP. She is doing her best, and is clearly committed to helping her daughter grow.

I think OP is in a little bit of denial about the severity of her daughter's issues. She said earlier the doctor stated her bone growth was delayed due to malnutrition and it sounds like her daughter has some extreme eating disorders. But OP lives in a little bit of la la Land. If my child was so malnourished that it was stunting her growth and trying to have her take a BITE of food led to crying, I wouldnt be so resistant to people pointing out that OP has a severe issue going on.

Oh my gosh, please lay off the OP. She is doing her best, and is clearly committed to helping her daughter grow.

It's ok if she isn't eating the full amount if the bites she is taking in are very high calorie. Better a few bites of eggs with cheese than red peppers. Better a chocolate whole milk shake with corn syrup mixed in than plain ice cream.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you making fish for dinner when you know that your DD doesn't like it?

For most families, I completely 100% believe that a parent shouldn't cook to cater to a child's taste, and that kids should eat what their parents eat, but come on! Your child is in grave medical danger. This is nowhere close to a normal situation.

It stinks, I am sure, to have to think this way about every meal and every snack your family has, but you can't really afford to lapse here.

If you want to eat fish, eat it when she's at school. But at home, I would be making pizzas, tacos, or whatever food she might actually eat.

Also, please feed her right after the ballet class. Do you allow her to eat food in the car? Bring a milkshake for her to consume when you pick her up.

Yes I feed her right after class. Usually a heavy snack, breakfast sandwich from Starbucks, or quesadilla. We have snacks in the car but not always. That hS changed recently. I now keep protein bars and trail mix in the car always. We eat fish because it’s healthy and when we do, she gets to choose whatever protein we have on hand. She likes the choice. Usually leftover chicken, steak, eggs, or cheese. Sometimes a chicken pot pie or burrito. Yesterday she wanted cheese because she was still full from her snack. We don’t starve her so we can have fish. Jeez. But eating fish is modeling good behavior too even if she wants something else.

OP, your take on "modeling good behavior" is NOT WORKING. BTW, your daughter is technically starving. Do you get that? When you don't offer a meal--not just cheese cubes--that she will eat, you are enabling her disordered eating by sending the message that it is OK for her to have a small snack at dinner. You need to re-orient how you present food and food choices. The normal "healthy" rules do not apply to your household. Stop pretending that they do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You and your DH do eat healthily but you are modeling basically dieting behaviors to your DD. Here is how you start the day for your dd.
Huge breakfast:
several rashers of bacon
3 eggs
bagel with nutella or cream cheese on.
Juice and ensure if possible.
You wake her up early and you make it and she starts by eating more and more, if you need you eat the same. She won't eat all of it the first week, but you do this.
I hate to say this, but your eating is modeling your DD's eating. Sounds like you and your DH are very healthy food conscious, which would normally be awesome! but not for your DD, not in her case. Go to Texas Road House and you and your DH model eating a whole steak and baked potatoes and bread and a salad. I answered in earnest but your menu posting makes me wonder, if you are serious about your DD's issue or maybe a troll?

+1

Huh? Troll? Why? Because we value nutrition? DD’s hands on diet was developed by her dietician based on the favorite foods DD shared and committed to eat. We made a contract with her doctor based on what is sustainable and healthy. We haven’t been doing this long enough to evaluate if it’s successful. DH is an athlete. I am a dancer. Nutrition is important to us, but we are aware DD’s needs are different from ours. Texas Roadhouse? Really?

Yes, really. OP you don't seem to understand the severity of your DD's issue or you have overstated her problems. Is she a failure to thrive or not? Sure, choose, Marx' steak house, but feed your kid. If her nutritionist is doing this the healthy way... is it working? I am just a stranger on dcum, you are right not to listen to me, but ask yourself if this is working? If it is working... why is there a feeding tube talk? If your DD is not gaining weight your way and dietitian's way is there any open minded solution here? I say seek another nutritionist. Sadly my DS's one moved to New Orleans. I will be grateful to her for the rest of my life. I wanted it done healthy way, we tried, didn't work. She told us to do it this way, and it eventually worked. DS is back to eating healthily now. Didn't make him a junk food addict for the rest of his life. Anyway, I said enough, I don't think your DD is eating enough based on BTDT and my DS grew. You do you. My DS is an athlete too, you write your DD does ballet, daily? How many hours per week? And yet she is eating like a bird when she should be eating more than preteen that is not active. I tried to explain what worked, but you can't help people that don't want help.

I’m not sure why you think I don’t want help. I’m glad this program worked for your child. It would never work for mine. She simply will not eat that much. I ask for one more bite and she cries and shuts down. I invite teenage friends over eat with her, hoping some of their eating habits will be contagious. She will gladly eat three Doritos and her best friend finishes the bag. I make her a milkshake and she will drink a few sips and then feel full. Half her lunch comes back uneaten - and she packed it herself. I tell her she can’t play until she finishes her burger and she will go to her room. We bake cookies together and she will eat one. Her GI told me to lay off the quantity and focus on small sustainable strategies. That’s what we are trying.

As for how well it’s working, this is all fairly new. I will report back in three months.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You and your DH do eat healthily but you are modeling basically dieting behaviors to your DD. Here is how you start the day for your dd.
Huge breakfast:
several rashers of bacon
3 eggs
bagel with nutella or cream cheese on.
Juice and ensure if possible.
You wake her up early and you make it and she starts by eating more and more, if you need you eat the same. She won't eat all of it the first week, but you do this.
I hate to say this, but your eating is modeling your DD's eating. Sounds like you and your DH are very healthy food conscious, which would normally be awesome! but not for your DD, not in her case. Go to Texas Road House and you and your DH model eating a whole steak and baked potatoes and bread and a salad. I answered in earnest but your menu posting makes me wonder, if you are serious about your DD's issue or maybe a troll?

+1

Huh? Troll? Why? Because we value nutrition? DD’s hands on diet was developed by her dietician based on the favorite foods DD shared and committed to eat. We made a contract with her doctor based on what is sustainable and healthy. We haven’t been doing this long enough to evaluate if it’s successful. DH is an athlete. I am a dancer. Nutrition is important to us, but we are aware DD’s needs are different from ours. Texas Roadhouse? Really?

Yes, really. OP you don't seem to understand the severity of your DD's issue or you have overstated her problems. Is she a failure to thrive or not? Sure, choose, Marx' steak house, but feed your kid. If her nutritionist is doing this the healthy way... is it working? I am just a stranger on dcum, you are right not to listen to me, but ask yourself if this is working? If it is working... why is there a feeding tube talk? If your DD is not gaining weight your way and dietitian's way is there any open minded solution here? I say seek another nutritionist. Sadly my DS's one moved to New Orleans. I will be grateful to her for the rest of my life. I wanted it done healthy way, we tried, didn't work. She told us to do it this way, and it eventually worked. DS is back to eating healthily now. Didn't make him a junk food addict for the rest of his life. Anyway, I said enough, I don't think your DD is eating enough based on BTDT and my DS grew. You do you. My DS is an athlete too, you write your DD does ballet, daily? How many hours per week? And yet she is eating like a bird when she should be eating more than preteen that is not active. I tried to explain what worked, but you can't help people that don't want help.

DP. This is the part that's not clear from all of OP's posts.

I agree. Feeding tube is tossed around for a kid that is doing fine?! But, delayed growth due to lack or nutrition? I answered to OP sincerely about what worked and how my DS grew. She acts like Texas Road house is hell on earth. Sounds more and more that she is the problem. I did what it took, pride put aside for my child. What mom wants to have a Freshman that is below 5 feet by a lot and a boy when parents are regular height people? My DS even stopped playing his sport as much. Went twice per week as opposed to five times like before.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You and your DH do eat healthily but you are modeling basically dieting behaviors to your DD. Here is how you start the day for your dd.
Huge breakfast:
several rashers of bacon
3 eggs
bagel with nutella or cream cheese on.
Juice and ensure if possible.
You wake her up early and you make it and she starts by eating more and more, if you need you eat the same. She won't eat all of it the first week, but you do this.
I hate to say this, but your eating is modeling your DD's eating. Sounds like you and your DH are very healthy food conscious, which would normally be awesome! but not for your DD, not in her case. Go to Texas Road House and you and your DH model eating a whole steak and baked potatoes and bread and a salad. I answered in earnest but your menu posting makes me wonder, if you are serious about your DD's issue or maybe a troll?

+1

Huh? Troll? Why? Because we value nutrition? DD’s hands on diet was developed by her dietician based on the favorite foods DD shared and committed to eat. We made a contract with her doctor based on what is sustainable and healthy. We haven’t been doing this long enough to evaluate if it’s successful. DH is an athlete. I am a dancer. Nutrition is important to us, but we are aware DD’s needs are different from ours. Texas Roadhouse? Really?

Yes, really. OP you don't seem to understand the severity of your DD's issue or you have overstated her problems. Is she a failure to thrive or not? Sure, choose, Marx' steak house, but feed your kid. If her nutritionist is doing this the healthy way... is it working? I am just a stranger on dcum, you are right not to listen to me, but ask yourself if this is working? If it is working... why is there a feeding tube talk? If your DD is not gaining weight your way and dietitian's way is there any open minded solution here? I say seek another nutritionist. Sadly my DS's one moved to New Orleans. I will be grateful to her for the rest of my life. I wanted it done healthy way, we tried, didn't work. She told us to do it this way, and it eventually worked. DS is back to eating healthily now. Didn't make him a junk food addict for the rest of his life. Anyway, I said enough, I don't think your DD is eating enough based on BTDT and my DS grew. You do you. My DS is an athlete too, you write your DD does ballet, daily? How many hours per week? And yet she is eating like a bird when she should be eating more than preteen that is not active. I tried to explain what worked, but you can't help people that don't want help.

OP, I have followed this whole thread and tried to offer helpful advice. The more you have posted about your own diet, your daughter eating red peppers, etc. the more I think this pp is onto something. I suspect you have your own issues with food that your daughter is picking up on in addition to her own issues. Your daughter's diet is not normal for a pre-teen kid. They can eat some level of crap and be fine if they are active and burn a lot of calories. Wanting to eat healthy is admirable but it hasn't worked. Why are you making food you know she doesn't like? Let her try anything and everything until you find foods she will eat. Go to the store and let her pick out all the crap her friends like. When was the last time your daughter had Dominos, Chick fil A, Five Guys etc? She needs calories not fish and red peppers.

I was given recipes for high calorie shakes from our doctor. Maybe try one of these after ballet? It's pure, pure calories (600-1000 calories each but she probably won't eat it all). Just mix in a blender.

1. 1/2 c heavy whipping cream, 3 T pb, 3 tb chocolate syrup, 1.5 c chocolate ice cream (full fat)

2. 1 c whole milk, 1 c canned peaches, 1 c vanilla ice cream, 1/4 t each salt and vanilla

3. 3/4 c orange sherbert, 2 T corn syrup, 1/2 c 7-up, 2 T corn oil.

Op here and I’m not sure if she is technically diagnosed as FTT. No one has used that term with me. She is growing, just not at the rate she should be according to her peers. But her peers are starting to go through puberty and she is not. Compared to a kid of her bone age (8) her growth rate is not as alarming. But we don’t know the cause of her bone delay, lack of calories or constitutional growth delay. Her endocrinologists thought it was both.

Anonymous wrote:Why are you making fish for dinner when you know that your DD doesn't like it?

For most families, I completely 100% believe that a parent shouldn't cook to cater to a child's taste, and that kids should eat what their parents eat, but come on! Your child is in grave medical danger. This is nowhere close to a normal situation.

It stinks, I am sure, to have to think this way about every meal and every snack your family has, but you can't really afford to lapse here.

If you want to eat fish, eat it when she's at school. But at home, I would be making pizzas, tacos, or whatever food she might actually eat.

Also, please feed her right after the ballet class. Do you allow her to eat food in the car? Bring a milkshake for her to consume when you pick her up.

Yes I feed her right after class. Usually a heavy snack, breakfast sandwich from Starbucks, or quesadilla. We have snacks in the car but not always. That hS changed recently. I now keep protein bars and trail mix in the car always. We eat fish because it’s healthy and when we do, she gets to choose whatever protein we have on hand. She likes the choice. Usually leftover chicken, steak, eggs, or cheese. Sometimes a chicken pot pie or burrito. Yesterday she wanted cheese because she was still full from her snack. We don’t starve her so we can have fish. Jeez. But eating fish is modeling good behavior too even if she wants something else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You and your DH do eat healthily but you are modeling basically dieting behaviors to your DD. Here is how you start the day for your dd.
Huge breakfast:
several rashers of bacon
3 eggs
bagel with nutella or cream cheese on.
Juice and ensure if possible.
You wake her up early and you make it and she starts by eating more and more, if you need you eat the same. She won't eat all of it the first week, but you do this.
I hate to say this, but your eating is modeling your DD's eating. Sounds like you and your DH are very healthy food conscious, which would normally be awesome! but not for your DD, not in her case. Go to Texas Road House and you and your DH model eating a whole steak and baked potatoes and bread and a salad. I answered in earnest but your menu posting makes me wonder, if you are serious about your DD's issue or maybe a troll?

I'm not the OP, but I have a question about this. I have three thin kids, one of whom is very, very thin, and he would NEVER eat all this. This isn't a normal breakfast. Very thin kid doesn't eat eggs. He'll have bacon or sausage on the weekend, but during the week, both because of time and because of what his body wants, he usually has cereal or a bagel or waffles with peanut butter for breakfast. For OP's child, who is under medical watch, of course a *bigger* breakfast is in order, but this amount of food doesn't seem reasonable for anyone, least of all a tiny girl. What is reasonable, yet also convenient and caloric?

Mom of under 1% teen who ended up 5'11" here. I wrote this. No, this is not reasonable and her and your kid won't eat this much. There is a huge difference between failure to thrive and thin kids. We were all thin in the 80s, more or less. This is how I started with DS, he ate what he could and I would beg for just one more bite, slowly, slowly he started to eat more. You have to think of it as medicine, and hope it works. I said, this is how to start, offer it. This is exactly the opposite advice of what you would do for overweight kids. It worked for my DS, if your kids are just thin but not failure to thrive and tall enough, they are probably getting enough calories to grow. Start like this, then pray it works over the course of a month or two for OP. OP's kid eat like a bird according to her hands off days. I am not happy to recommend this, but it worked for my DS. Heck his estimate height was 5'8" plus minus 2 inches. It is not like I failed, I did what I had to based on advice of awesome ped endo and nutritionst. That is why I keep asking which endo is she seeing if she is here.

True, and thanks for your nice response. My kids are definitely not failing to thrive.