Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question was why do people of privilege find it so hard to understand how hard it is to save, and this thread demonstrated this perfectly.

Being working poor is really hard. It is time consuming in a way that many people don't seem to understand. Taking a low-wage hourly job or two puts you at the mercy of someone else making a schedule, with a week's notice. Or maybe you will only get 3 shifts when you were counting on 5 that week. Then you have to find child care for a random schedule, which is why people frequently ask family to help, or you have to pay a sitter, who may make a bit less than you do. Because you are hourly, you don't have health insurance, or a way to budget because random hours.

This leads to the need for social services, whether that be reduced lunches, medical care, or an unemployment check because the factory closed and half the town is out of work too.

It takes time to figure out how to get medical care, and time to figure out how to fill out forms to get social services. It is complicated and confusing. Being poor has long-term impacts, like not knowing how to apply for college or the aid that they can likely receive because of a low family income, or skipping the health insurance options because that does cost extra, and maybe it's worth taking the risk of not having it.

This was my childhood, followed by me putting myself through college (I arranged my classes at a big ten school around my work schedule for one of my jobs and not the other way around. I ate an apple around 3p, and then ate whatever pizza was messed up at the restaurant that night) Saving just wasn't an option. There was nothing to save.

My husband is furloughed, and I run a consulting firm. We do have savings, and are fine. But I won't be the one scolding Americans who are $600 away from catastrophe at any moment.

You quote things you have never experienced if someone actually took the time to help you get to college, etc. Not everyone had that kind of help or support. If your husband is a fed and you run a consulting firm, you have plenty of money and none of this is an issue and maybe its time you gave back a little.

Np: or, maybe, they have drive and ambition and figured it out for themselves because they wanted a better life - don’t belittle their achievements because you can’t imagine anyone being able to do that on their own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question was why do people of privilege find it so hard to understand how hard it is to save, and this thread demonstrated this perfectly.

Being working poor is really hard. It is time consuming in a way that many people don't seem to understand. Taking a low-wage hourly job or two puts you at the mercy of someone else making a schedule, with a week's notice. Or maybe you will only get 3 shifts when you were counting on 5 that week. Then you have to find child care for a random schedule, which is why people frequently ask family to help, or you have to pay a sitter, who may make a bit less than you do. Because you are hourly, you don't have health insurance, or a way to budget because random hours.

This leads to the need for social services, whether that be reduced lunches, medical care, or an unemployment check because the factory closed and half the town is out of work too.

It takes time to figure out how to get medical care, and time to figure out how to fill out forms to get social services. It is complicated and confusing. Being poor has long-term impacts, like not knowing how to apply for college or the aid that they can likely receive because of a low family income, or skipping the health insurance options because that does cost extra, and maybe it's worth taking the risk of not having it.

This was my childhood, followed by me putting myself through college (I arranged my classes at a big ten school around my work schedule for one of my jobs and not the other way around. I ate an apple around 3p, and then ate whatever pizza was messed up at the restaurant that night) Saving just wasn't an option. There was nothing to save.

My husband is furloughed, and I run a consulting firm. We do have savings, and are fine. But I won't be the one scolding Americans who are $600 away from catastrophe at any moment.

You quote things you have never experienced if someone actually took the time to help you get to college, etc. Not everyone had that kind of help or support. If your husband is a fed and you run a consulting firm, you have plenty of money and none of this is an issue and maybe its time you gave back a little.

Anonymous wrote:The question was why do people of privilege find it so hard to understand how hard it is to save, and this thread demonstrated this perfectly.

Being working poor is really hard. It is time consuming in a way that many people don't seem to understand. Taking a low-wage hourly job or two puts you at the mercy of someone else making a schedule, with a week's notice. Or maybe you will only get 3 shifts when you were counting on 5 that week. Then you have to find child care for a random schedule, which is why people frequently ask family to help, or you have to pay a sitter, who may make a bit less than you do. Because you are hourly, you don't have health insurance, or a way to budget because random hours.

This leads to the need for social services, whether that be reduced lunches, medical care, or an unemployment check because the factory closed and half the town is out of work too.

It takes time to figure out how to get medical care, and time to figure out how to fill out forms to get social services. It is complicated and confusing. Being poor has long-term impacts, like not knowing how to apply for college or the aid that they can likely receive because of a low family income, or skipping the health insurance options because that does cost extra, and maybe it's worth taking the risk of not having it.

This was my childhood, followed by me putting myself through college (I arranged my classes at a big ten school around my work schedule for one of my jobs and not the other way around. I ate an apple around 3p, and then ate whatever pizza was messed up at the restaurant that night) Saving just wasn't an option. There was nothing to save.

My husband is furloughed, and I run a consulting firm. We do have savings, and are fine. But I won't be the one scolding Americans who are $600 away from catastrophe at any moment.

Anonymous wrote:You guys just need to stop with the starbucks. Americans are not poor because they buy coffee or other trinkets. They're poor because the minimum wage is so low, housing is too expensive, childcare is too expensive, health care is too expensive. Even if they could put together $1000/year by scraping down to the bare minimum consumption, that could be wiped out and go negative with one car accident or illness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question was why do people of privilege find it so hard to understand how hard it is to save, and this thread demonstrated this perfectly.

Being working poor is really hard. It is time consuming in a way that many people don't seem to understand. Taking a low-wage hourly job or two puts you at the mercy of someone else making a schedule, with a week's notice. Or maybe you will only get 3 shifts when you were counting on 5 that week. Then you have to find child care for a random schedule, which is why people frequently ask family to help, or you have to pay a sitter, who may make a bit less than you do. Because you are hourly, you don't have health insurance, or a way to budget because random hours.

This leads to the need for social services, whether that be reduced lunches, medical care, or an unemployment check because the factory closed and half the town is out of work too.

It takes time to figure out how to get medical care, and time to figure out how to fill out forms to get social services. It is complicated and confusing. Being poor has long-term impacts, like not knowing how to apply for college or the aid that they can likely receive because of a low family income, or skipping the health insurance options because that does cost extra, and maybe it's worth taking the risk of not having it.

This was my childhood, followed by me putting myself through college (I arranged my classes at a big ten school around my work schedule for one of my jobs and not the other way around. I ate an apple around 3p, and then ate whatever pizza was messed up at the restaurant that night) Saving just wasn't an option. There was nothing to save.

My husband is furloughed, and I run a consulting firm. We do have savings, and are fine. But I won't be the one scolding Americans who are $600 away from catastrophe at any moment.

+1

Anonymous wrote:People are mean about this because they believe in the "just world" hypothesis. Trying to convince them with hard luck stories accomplishes nothing.

It's pretty well documented that people have a limited amount of willpower. Being poor sucks yours up a great deal. The cognitive stress compounds the bad choices.

I just finished reading "Fat Nation," which applied the same cognitive understandings to the obesity crisis. Basically, criticizing the working poor for not saving is like asking an obese person why they just don't eat less and move more.

Anonymous wrote:One thing people here are totally ignorant of is that lower income people often have family responsibilities at very young ages. It's all very fine and well to say that a 20-something should just "live in a falling-down house with three roommates and eat beans for 10 years and work two minimum wage jobs." But a lot of low income 20-somethings are helping out their families, younger siblings, etc, in terms of both money and time. It's not as simple as just one person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Privledged people think you’re indulging in $1,000 iPhones and private schools and so they like to scold you. It makes them feel quite satisfied! Reality is your child care and health care and housing probably eat up your paycheck. Between repairs for cars and home maintenance and emergency health bills there just isn’t a lot left. And for those who are scolding people for having children? That’s disgusting.

Kids are a life choice so yes, its something to consider. If you have 2-3 kids and barely making it, its something you should have thought about with child care and other expenses. Home repairs, many you can DIY. There are lots of options in terms of savings. We DIY the majority of our house and saved a huge amount of money. Likewise, most people spend way more on their house, cars and other things than they can afford. Even here people suggest 4-5 times a salary when a house should be no more than 2-3 times your salary. So, yes, that may mean living in a 1000 square foot house. We live in a small house, under our means and don't get people who have the same income living in much more expensive houses and then complaining.

Do you not understand there are people working 2 and 3 jobs to make ends meet. They don't want to come home and McGuyver the plumbing if they don't know what they're doing.

I've seen other threads on how to make it when you're poor and read this advice.
-Get a crockpot, eat lots of rice and beans
-Never eat fast food or at restaurants
-Put thermostat at 65
-Use cloth diapers
-Don't drive anywhere unnecessary to save gas
-Clip coupons
-Sell car and take public transportation

I notice that most people's "advice" on how to save money usually boils down to "Poor people don't deserve conveniences or nice things at all". It's really hard to imagine that someone is going to never eat out, take the bus to and from working 2 jobs, and come home to clip coupons, wash diapers and eat beans and rice in their cold house. And on top of that, any spare time they DO have will be devoted to DIYing whatever has broken at their house. That sounds miserable.

Do you not realize that most people who are money poor are also time poor? Most "poor" people are working poor. They work long hours and probably do deserve to get ice cream or whatever at the store without worrying about going a $ over the food budget.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question was why do people of privilege find it so hard to understand how hard it is to save, and this thread demonstrated this perfectly.

Being working poor is really hard. It is time consuming in a way that many people don't seem to understand. Taking a low-wage hourly job or two puts you at the mercy of someone else making a schedule, with a week's notice. Or maybe you will only get 3 shifts when you were counting on 5 that week. Then you have to find child care for a random schedule, which is why people frequently ask family to help, or you have to pay a sitter, who may make a bit less than you do. Because you are hourly, you don't have health insurance, or a way to budget because random hours.

This leads to the need for social services, whether that be reduced lunches, medical care, or an unemployment check because the factory closed and half the town is out of work too.

It takes time to figure out how to get medical care, and time to figure out how to fill out forms to get social services. It is complicated and confusing. Being poor has long-term impacts, like not knowing how to apply for college or the aid that they can likely receive because of a low family income, or skipping the health insurance options because that does cost extra, and maybe it's worth taking the risk of not having it.

This was my childhood, followed by me putting myself through college (I arranged my classes at a big ten school around my work schedule for one of my jobs and not the other way around. I ate an apple around 3p, and then ate whatever pizza was messed up at the restaurant that night) Saving just wasn't an option. There was nothing to save.

My husband is furloughed, and I run a consulting firm. We do have savings, and are fine. But I won't be the one scolding Americans who are $600 away from catastrophe at any moment.

People who find themselves in the situation you described are typically there because of poor life choices. I used to be involved in a variety of charities that focused on *giving*. We would give money, food, toys, clothing, and etc to poor people in need. After a couple of years of that I decided to go into mentoring instead and it had FAR more impact to the people we helped. I love giving the example of a single mom who had a long string of waitress or retail clerk jobs, earning minimum wage or barely above it, literally struggling to stay afloat. She had the drive and the desire, as well as the work ethic, but just didn't know what to do to pull herself out of a repetitive and depressing situation. Her dad took ill and she went and took care of him in the hospital. She described to us how she's used to taking care of sick relatives so we suggested that she go into a nursing program. She hunkered down, took two semesters of classes at the local community college, tuition was paid for by a combination of Pell grant and other needs-based aid, we helped her with her exam preps, and she got a steady job with benefits as a nurse - a field with a lot of need and the potential for growth with additional education. We told her to stay focused on gaining additional training so that she can grow into higher roles and therefore earn more pay. After a while she never contacted us again, which is a wonderful outcome for us. This is just an example, we saw so many stories just like hers, people stuck in a situation unable to get out, and they grow frustrated, angry, lashing out at people or situations they think is unfair. The opportunities are there, it's up to the individual to act in their own best interest, and not to wait for others to do for them what they must do for themselves.

Ok. And? Why do people keep saying the bolded? Of COURSE someone, somewhere, might have made bad life choices to lead to poverty, whether it be the person themselves, their parents, or their grandparents. How do we "mentor" people en masse? That is a really individual and personal solution. In the meantime, people have expenses and children with needs. Our society needs to give a s*** about those people instead of jumping up and down on them about their "bad life choices."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question was why do people of privilege find it so hard to understand how hard it is to save, and this thread demonstrated this perfectly.

Being working poor is really hard. It is time consuming in a way that many people don't seem to understand. Taking a low-wage hourly job or two puts you at the mercy of someone else making a schedule, with a week's notice. Or maybe you will only get 3 shifts when you were counting on 5 that week. Then you have to find child care for a random schedule, which is why people frequently ask family to help, or you have to pay a sitter, who may make a bit less than you do. Because you are hourly, you don't have health insurance, or a way to budget because random hours.

This leads to the need for social services, whether that be reduced lunches, medical care, or an unemployment check because the factory closed and half the town is out of work too.

It takes time to figure out how to get medical care, and time to figure out how to fill out forms to get social services. It is complicated and confusing. Being poor has long-term impacts, like not knowing how to apply for college or the aid that they can likely receive because of a low family income, or skipping the health insurance options because that does cost extra, and maybe it's worth taking the risk of not having it.

This was my childhood, followed by me putting myself through college (I arranged my classes at a big ten school around my work schedule for one of my jobs and not the other way around. I ate an apple around 3p, and then ate whatever pizza was messed up at the restaurant that night) Saving just wasn't an option. There was nothing to save.

My husband is furloughed, and I run a consulting firm. We do have savings, and are fine. But I won't be the one scolding Americans who are $600 away from catastrophe at any moment.

People who find themselves in the situation you described are typically there because of poor life choices. I used to be involved in a variety of charities that focused on *giving*. We would give money, food, toys, clothing, and etc to poor people in need. After a couple of years of that I decided to go into mentoring instead and it had FAR more impact to the people we helped. I love giving the example of a single mom who had a long string of waitress or retail clerk jobs, earning minimum wage or barely above it, literally struggling to stay afloat. She had the drive and the desire, as well as the work ethic, but just didn't know what to do to pull herself out of a repetitive and depressing situation. Her dad took ill and she went and took care of him in the hospital. She described to us how she's used to taking care of sick relatives so we suggested that she go into a nursing program. She hunkered down, took two semesters of classes at the local community college, tuition was paid for by a combination of Pell grant and other needs-based aid, we helped her with her exam preps, and she got a steady job with benefits as a nurse - a field with a lot of need and the potential for growth with additional education. We told her to stay focused on gaining additional training so that she can grow into higher roles and therefore earn more pay. After a while she never contacted us again, which is a wonderful outcome for us. This is just an example, we saw so many stories just like hers, people stuck in a situation unable to get out, and they grow frustrated, angry, lashing out at people or situations they think is unfair. The opportunities are there, it's up to the individual to act in their own best interest, and not to wait for others to do for them what they must do for themselves.

Anonymous wrote:The question was why do people of privilege find it so hard to understand how hard it is to save, and this thread demonstrated this perfectly.

Being working poor is really hard. It is time consuming in a way that many people don't seem to understand. Taking a low-wage hourly job or two puts you at the mercy of someone else making a schedule, with a week's notice. Or maybe you will only get 3 shifts when you were counting on 5 that week. Then you have to find child care for a random schedule, which is why people frequently ask family to help, or you have to pay a sitter, who may make a bit less than you do. Because you are hourly, you don't have health insurance, or a way to budget because random hours.

This leads to the need for social services, whether that be reduced lunches, medical care, or an unemployment check because the factory closed and half the town is out of work too.

It takes time to figure out how to get medical care, and time to figure out how to fill out forms to get social services. It is complicated and confusing. Being poor has long-term impacts, like not knowing how to apply for college or the aid that they can likely receive because of a low family income, or skipping the health insurance options because that does cost extra, and maybe it's worth taking the risk of not having it.

This was my childhood, followed by me putting myself through college (I arranged my classes at a big ten school around my work schedule for one of my jobs and not the other way around. I ate an apple around 3p, and then ate whatever pizza was messed up at the restaurant that night) Saving just wasn't an option. There was nothing to save.

My husband is furloughed, and I run a consulting firm. We do have savings, and are fine. But I won't be the one scolding Americans who are $600 away from catastrophe at any moment.

Anonymous wrote:The question was why do people of privilege find it so hard to understand how hard it is to save, and this thread demonstrated this perfectly.

Being working poor is really hard. It is time consuming in a way that many people don't seem to understand. Taking a low-wage hourly job or two puts you at the mercy of someone else making a schedule, with a week's notice. Or maybe you will only get 3 shifts when you were counting on 5 that week. Then you have to find child care for a random schedule, which is why people frequently ask family to help, or you have to pay a sitter, who may make a bit less than you do. Because you are hourly, you don't have health insurance, or a way to budget because random hours.

This leads to the need for social services, whether that be reduced lunches, medical care, or an unemployment check because the factory closed and half the town is out of work too.

It takes time to figure out how to get medical care, and time to figure out how to fill out forms to get social services. It is complicated and confusing. Being poor has long-term impacts, like not knowing how to apply for college or the aid that they can likely receive because of a low family income, or skipping the health insurance options because that does cost extra, and maybe it's worth taking the risk of not having it.

This was my childhood, followed by me putting myself through college (I arranged my classes at a big ten school around my work schedule for one of my jobs and not the other way around. I ate an apple around 3p, and then ate whatever pizza was messed up at the restaurant that night) Saving just wasn't an option. There was nothing to save.

My husband is furloughed, and I run a consulting firm. We do have savings, and are fine. But I won't be the one scolding Americans who are $600 away from catastrophe at any moment.