Anonymous
12/13/2018 18:26
Subject: How good does a kid have to be to make travel
Anonymous wrote:RantingSoccerDad wrote:Another option for the parent who wants a couple of kids to play together -- put together an entire team, then see if a club will register all of you together. Some do. If not, try VISTA.
But the other posters are right -- if you try out for a big club and find one of the players is a B-teamer and the other is a D-teamer, you can't reasonably expect them to play together.
They're also right that some clubs may have all their teams in an age group practice at the same time and place. PAC does. SYC did as of a few years ago, IIRC. Does Barca Academy?
Yeah they do. Evergreen’s pretty nice too
Evergreen is ok but it’s out in the boondocks.
Funny how we went from making arguments on how classic/rec is just as good as c/d level travel soccer at $2k per year to the most expensive destination for frustrated c/d level and rec players and parents (outside of a scant few teams). This thread moves fast and in strange and mysterious ways. LOL
Anonymous
12/13/2018 15:24
Subject: How good does a kid have to be to make travel
RantingSoccerDad wrote:Another option for the parent who wants a couple of kids to play together -- put together an entire team, then see if a club will register all of you together. Some do. If not, try VISTA.
But the other posters are right -- if you try out for a big club and find one of the players is a B-teamer and the other is a D-teamer, you can't reasonably expect them to play together.
They're also right that some clubs may have all their teams in an age group practice at the same time and place. PAC does. SYC did as of a few years ago, IIRC. Does Barca Academy?
Yeah they do. Evergreen’s pretty nice too
Anonymous
12/13/2018 12:32
Subject: How good does a kid have to be to make travel
RantingSoccerDad wrote:Another option for the parent who wants a couple of kids to play together -- put together an entire team, then see if a club will register all of you together. Some do. If not, try VISTA.
But the other posters are right -- if you try out for a big club and find one of the players is a B-teamer and the other is a D-teamer, you can't reasonably expect them to play together.
They're also right that some clubs may have all their teams in an age group practice at the same time and place. PAC does. SYC did as of a few years ago, IIRC. Does Barca Academy?
Many if not most of the smaller clubs do this as well, especially at the youngest ages, especially the "academy style" clubs.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 12:01
Subject: How good does a kid have to be to make travel
RantingSoccerDad wrote:Another option for the parent who wants a couple of kids to play together -- put together an entire team, then see if a club will register all of you together. Some do. If not, try VISTA.
But the other posters are right -- if you try out for a big club and find one of the players is a B-teamer and the other is a D-teamer, you can't reasonably expect them to play together.
They're also right that some clubs may have all their teams in an age group practice at the same time and place. PAC does. SYC did as of a few years ago, IIRC. Does Barca Academy?
Age groups at Barca all practice at the same time. Kids may not be on the same 'team" but their practice times would be the same.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 11:46
Subject: Re:How good does a kid have to be to make travel
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I've been following this thread with interest as DS is very good at soccer and loves to play and IIUC would be eligible to start on a travel team next fall, assuming he makes a team.
So two questions that haven't been clearly answered in this thread:
1) When you are offered a spot on a team do you know at that time whether you are getting and "A" team offer or not (or even "B") so you can decide if it is worth the hassle and expense?
2) How good are the various leagues at assessing talent, especially based on initial tryouts, when they haven't had the advantage of watching kids for a full season? And do kids get moved on and off the "A" team if those assessments turn out to be wrong, either in or out of season?
Also curious - DS has a good friend from his school who is also very good at soccer - assuming he also tries out what is the possibility we can engineer it so they get on the same team? We both have longer commutes and getting home 2 nights a week to get DS to a soccer practice out of the neighborhood is going to be really hard but if we could split the duties with someone it could make the difference in our ability to do this.
Thanks
1. A/B teams are generally worth it. Unless the clubs philosophy is to train Academy style, i.e. a player pool where the A and B teams essentially train together except for game day rosters you will most likely be offered a spot for a specific team. The team name provided may not mean anything to you so ask the coach if it is the first or second team.
2. Leagues do not asses talent. This is a constant irritation to me on these threads as people simply confuse clubs, league, teams as if they are interchangeable. They are not. Teams play/train in Clubs and Clubs join Leagues. A club will have several teams in any given age group and those teams within the age group may play in different leagues.
3. I would not try and "engineer" your son and friend to be on the same team. If that is what you want then play rec or classic. That doesn't mean that both kids don't make the same travel team but frankly it is obnoxious to even ask.
Definitely agree with #3. Clubs have no need to accommodate those types of requests, nor should they. If your kid and his friend try out at the same club and end up on the same team, that's a bonus for you.
Thanks for the responses but why in the world would clubs not try to accommodate such a request? It helps the parents (who are paying a lot for the privilege to participate) and I'm having a hard time fathoming what the injury or burden is to the club? Particularly since these clubs are apparently competing both for money and talent it seems odd to not stretch to help parents with logistics which might also help to ensure participation.
We are talking about elementary and middle school kids here.
You can't fathom it because you haven't thought it through.
It's a competitive process. There only so many spots on each team, and kids are supposed to make it (or not) based on merit. If one kid gets a spot that was "engineered" rather than earned, it means that another kid gets cut even though he or she deserved to make it. How fair is that?
In other words, if you try to "engineer" a kid on the team who doesn't deserve to be there based on merit, you are basically asking the club to screw over another child just to accommodate your convenience. That's why the PP said such a request would be obnoxious.
The only way I could see a club entertaining a request to "pair" two kids is if the parents of both kids agreed that the lowest team placement would be applied to both kids. In other words, if Johnny makes the A team and Bobby makes the B team then both kids would be placed on the B team.
After reading the responses to my earlier question about trying to link up kids from the same school on a travel soccer team I am starting to regret having a talented kid and not looking forward to rubbing shoulders with some of the people who have responded.
This entire thread is full of posts about how imperfect the process is of assigning kids and how important it is for the experience to still remain fun for the kids and how important the quality of the coaching is.
Yet the suggestion that the teams try to pair kids up in some manner is blasted as something that will ruin the suddenly unimpeachable process.
Look I get it - I've coached my older sons Little League team where there are tryouts and a draft for the express purpose of distributing the talent and trying to guarantee competitive games and player development.
But this also isn't rocket science, especially at the younger ages and soccer isn't as specialized as baseball is where you really have to get the handful of kids who can actually pitch fairly distributed and as repeatedly referenced since there are A/B/C/D teams (and many of them) I'm having a pretty hard time getting my head around the notion that it is somehow an outrageous request that you group together kids who know each other, especially at the younger ages.
Sure when the kids get to 10 or 11 and the herd has thinned and it is clear who the "A" kids really are it needs to be a stricter meritocracy but it seems silly before then.
"After reading the responses to my earlier question about trying to link up kids from the same school on a travel soccer team I am starting to regret having a talented kid and not looking forward to rubbing shoulders with some of the people who have responded."
People here are trying to give you an honest understanding of the process. I, personally, was confused about your child's age as you referenced "elementary and middle school kids". There is a huge difference in terms of what you should expect from the process between U8 and U13/14 club soccer. If your child is U8/U9 and you are willing to have him and his friend placed on a lower team (assuming they don't both make the same team initially) in order to keep them together, then I'm sure any club would do that. Also--one of the benefits of playing club soccer is your child meeting new kids and making new friends from outside of their school/social group. At U10, my daughter moved to a team where she didn't know anyone and she became incredibly close with those teammates.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 09:31
Subject: How good does a kid have to be to make travel
Anonymous wrote:The premise that C and D level travel is no better than rec isn’t right. Big clubs definitely use those teams for development of promising players at the younger ages. For example, at least three of the players on Loudoun’s youngest ECNL team were on a C team at u11. Typically you’ll see good external players dumped onto C or D teams at young ages until they are developed in the larger clubs style. Only the exceptional players (whether it’s in skill or atheleticism) are placed on A/B teams when entering the clubs. If we are talking u13 or later, then yes, the C or below teams are no better than rec. But not for the younger ages, which is how this discussion began.
I agree, my experience at the bigger clubs at U10-U12 is for the new kids entering travel, one or two makes C, one or two makes D and the rest make E or F. No one makes A or B unless coming from a top team somewhere else. But I have seen kids get shuffled from D to B after a couple years. It can be a mixed bag down there for sure, but still better than rec or most select /developmental team situations. But I'm sure this varies by club.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 09:05
Subject: How good does a kid have to be to make travel
The premise that C and D level travel is no better than rec isn’t right. Big clubs definitely use those teams for development of promising players at the younger ages. For example, at least three of the players on Loudoun’s youngest ECNL team were on a C team at u11. Typically you’ll see good external players dumped onto C or D teams at young ages until they are developed in the larger clubs style. Only the exceptional players (whether it’s in skill or atheleticism) are placed on A/B teams when entering the clubs. If we are talking u13 or later, then yes, the C or below teams are no better than rec. But not for the younger ages, which is how this discussion began.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 08:41
Subject: How good does a kid have to be to make travel
This could possibly apply for C/D level travel teams, not A/B travel level. If you don’t have time or the commitment to take your DC to practice, consider Rec or Select Soccer. It seems like your convenience is more important than your DC’s soccer development.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 07:24
Subject: Re:How good does a kid have to be to make travel
^^
No, you really don't get it. Tryouts and a draft for purposes of distributing talent to ensure competitive balance across a league are nothing like travel soccer tryouts. Not at all.
If it seems silly to you that it might be inappropriate to ask that another kid gets cut from a team he deserves to make, just so your kid can be on the same team as his friend from school, then it's because you are selfish. You seem incapable of emphathizing with the other kid - the one you're asking to get bumped - and considering the possibility that it might actually matter to him. I can assure you that for many, it really does.
I agree with the other poster, that if you are voluntarily giving up a spot on a higher team and asking that your kid be moved down, thus opening up a spot on that team for another kid to be moved up, it's an entirely different situation, but you don't seem to be able to recognize that difference.
The bottom line is that travel teams are not grouped by school. If that seems silly to you, you should probably have your kid stay in rec, or switch to baseball.
No, you really don't get it. Tryouts and a draft for purposes of distributing talent to ensure competitive balance across a league are nothing like travel soccer tryouts. Not at all.
If it seems silly to you that it might be inappropriate to ask that another kid gets cut from a team he deserves to make, just so your kid can be on the same team as his friend from school, then it's because you are selfish. You seem incapable of emphathizing with the other kid - the one you're asking to get bumped - and considering the possibility that it might actually matter to him. I can assure you that for many, it really does.
I agree with the other poster, that if you are voluntarily giving up a spot on a higher team and asking that your kid be moved down, thus opening up a spot on that team for another kid to be moved up, it's an entirely different situation, but you don't seem to be able to recognize that difference.
The bottom line is that travel teams are not grouped by school. If that seems silly to you, you should probably have your kid stay in rec, or switch to baseball.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 07:23
Subject: Re:How good does a kid have to be to make travel
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I've been following this thread with interest as DS is very good at soccer and loves to play and IIUC would be eligible to start on a travel team next fall, assuming he makes a team.
So two questions that haven't been clearly answered in this thread:
1) When you are offered a spot on a team do you know at that time whether you are getting and "A" team offer or not (or even "B") so you can decide if it is worth the hassle and expense?
2) How good are the various leagues at assessing talent, especially based on initial tryouts, when they haven't had the advantage of watching kids for a full season? And do kids get moved on and off the "A" team if those assessments turn out to be wrong, either in or out of season?
Also curious - DS has a good friend from his school who is also very good at soccer - assuming he also tries out what is the possibility we can engineer it so they get on the same team? We both have longer commutes and getting home 2 nights a week to get DS to a soccer practice out of the neighborhood is going to be really hard but if we could split the duties with someone it could make the difference in our ability to do this.
Thanks
1. A/B teams are generally worth it. Unless the clubs philosophy is to train Academy style, i.e. a player pool where the A and B teams essentially train together except for game day rosters you will most likely be offered a spot for a specific team. The team name provided may not mean anything to you so ask the coach if it is the first or second team.
2. Leagues do not asses talent. This is a constant irritation to me on these threads as people simply confuse clubs, league, teams as if they are interchangeable. They are not. Teams play/train in Clubs and Clubs join Leagues. A club will have several teams in any given age group and those teams within the age group may play in different leagues.
3. I would not try and "engineer" your son and friend to be on the same team. If that is what you want then play rec or classic. That doesn't mean that both kids don't make the same travel team but frankly it is obnoxious to even ask.
Definitely agree with #3. Clubs have no need to accommodate those types of requests, nor should they. If your kid and his friend try out at the same club and end up on the same team, that's a bonus for you.
Thanks for the responses but why in the world would clubs not try to accommodate such a request? It helps the parents (who are paying a lot for the privilege to participate) and I'm having a hard time fathoming what the injury or burden is to the club? Particularly since these clubs are apparently competing both for money and talent it seems odd to not stretch to help parents with logistics which might also help to ensure participation.
We are talking about elementary and middle school kids here.
You can't fathom it because you haven't thought it through.
It's a competitive process. There only so many spots on each team, and kids are supposed to make it (or not) based on merit. If one kid gets a spot that was "engineered" rather than earned, it means that another kid gets cut even though he or she deserved to make it. How fair is that?
In other words, if you try to "engineer" a kid on the team who doesn't deserve to be there based on merit, you are basically asking the club to screw over another child just to accommodate your convenience. That's why the PP said such a request would be obnoxious.
The only way I could see a club entertaining a request to "pair" two kids is if the parents of both kids agreed that the lowest team placement would be applied to both kids. In other words, if Johnny makes the A team and Bobby makes the B team then both kids would be placed on the B team.
After reading the responses to my earlier question about trying to link up kids from the same school on a travel soccer team I am starting to regret having a talented kid and not looking forward to rubbing shoulders with some of the people who have responded.
This entire thread is full of posts about how imperfect the process is of assigning kids and how important it is for the experience to still remain fun for the kids and how important the quality of the coaching is.
Yet the suggestion that the teams try to pair kids up in some manner is blasted as something that will ruin the suddenly unimpeachable process.
Look I get it - I've coached my older sons Little League team where there are tryouts and a draft for the express purpose of distributing the talent and trying to guarantee competitive games and player development.
But this also isn't rocket science, especially at the younger ages and soccer isn't as specialized as baseball is where you really have to get the handful of kids who can actually pitch fairly distributed and as repeatedly referenced since there are A/B/C/D teams (and many of them) I'm having a pretty hard time getting my head around the notion that it is somehow an outrageous request that you group together kids who know each other, especially at the younger ages.
Sure when the kids get to 10 or 11 and the herd has thinned and it is clear who the "A" kids really are it needs to be a stricter meritocracy but it seems silly before then.
I think your following quote can go a long ways to explain away this is hard for you to understand:
“Look I get it - I've coached my older sons Little League team where there are tryouts and a draft for the express purpose of distributing the talent and trying to guarantee competitive games and player development. ”
Travel soccer isn’t little league where ALL the kids show up in front of all the coaches essentially for an evaluation and then selected via draft to ensure BALANCED competitive league. In this setting you can horse swap with another coach and engineer two friends onto the same team.
In travel soccer, players tryout for each team individually/club. The coach will determine whether or not your kid makes the team. Most kids will tryout for 2-4 different teams and then determine which if any offers will be best for their kid. Generally, parental attempts to engineer a roster are highly frowned upon by all involved.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 07:04
Subject: Re:How good does a kid have to be to make travel
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I've been following this thread with interest as DS is very good at soccer and loves to play and IIUC would be eligible to start on a travel team next fall, assuming he makes a team.
So two questions that haven't been clearly answered in this thread:
1) When you are offered a spot on a team do you know at that time whether you are getting and "A" team offer or not (or even "B") so you can decide if it is worth the hassle and expense?
2) How good are the various leagues at assessing talent, especially based on initial tryouts, when they haven't had the advantage of watching kids for a full season? And do kids get moved on and off the "A" team if those assessments turn out to be wrong, either in or out of season?
Also curious - DS has a good friend from his school who is also very good at soccer - assuming he also tries out what is the possibility we can engineer it so they get on the same team? We both have longer commutes and getting home 2 nights a week to get DS to a soccer practice out of the neighborhood is going to be really hard but if we could split the duties with someone it could make the difference in our ability to do this.
Thanks
1. A/B teams are generally worth it. Unless the clubs philosophy is to train Academy style, i.e. a player pool where the A and B teams essentially train together except for game day rosters you will most likely be offered a spot for a specific team. The team name provided may not mean anything to you so ask the coach if it is the first or second team.
2. Leagues do not asses talent. This is a constant irritation to me on these threads as people simply confuse clubs, league, teams as if they are interchangeable. They are not. Teams play/train in Clubs and Clubs join Leagues. A club will have several teams in any given age group and those teams within the age group may play in different leagues.
3. I would not try and "engineer" your son and friend to be on the same team. If that is what you want then play rec or classic. That doesn't mean that both kids don't make the same travel team but frankly it is obnoxious to even ask.
Definitely agree with #3. Clubs have no need to accommodate those types of requests, nor should they. If your kid and his friend try out at the same club and end up on the same team, that's a bonus for you.
Thanks for the responses but why in the world would clubs not try to accommodate such a request? It helps the parents (who are paying a lot for the privilege to participate) and I'm having a hard time fathoming what the injury or burden is to the club? Particularly since these clubs are apparently competing both for money and talent it seems odd to not stretch to help parents with logistics which might also help to ensure participation.
We are talking about elementary and middle school kids here.
You can't fathom it because you haven't thought it through.
It's a competitive process. There only so many spots on each team, and kids are supposed to make it (or not) based on merit. If one kid gets a spot that was "engineered" rather than earned, it means that another kid gets cut even though he or she deserved to make it. How fair is that?
In other words, if you try to "engineer" a kid on the team who doesn't deserve to be there based on merit, you are basically asking the club to screw over another child just to accommodate your convenience. That's why the PP said such a request would be obnoxious.
The only way I could see a club entertaining a request to "pair" two kids is if the parents of both kids agreed that the lowest team placement would be applied to both kids. In other words, if Johnny makes the A team and Bobby makes the B team then both kids would be placed on the B team.
After reading the responses to my earlier question about trying to link up kids from the same school on a travel soccer team I am starting to regret having a talented kid and not looking forward to rubbing shoulders with some of the people who have responded.
This entire thread is full of posts about how imperfect the process is of assigning kids and how important it is for the experience to still remain fun for the kids and how important the quality of the coaching is.
Yet the suggestion that the teams try to pair kids up in some manner is blasted as something that will ruin the suddenly unimpeachable process.
Look I get it - I've coached my older sons Little League team where there are tryouts and a draft for the express purpose of distributing the talent and trying to guarantee competitive games and player development.
But this also isn't rocket science, especially at the younger ages and soccer isn't as specialized as baseball is where you really have to get the handful of kids who can actually pitch fairly distributed and as repeatedly referenced since there are A/B/C/D teams (and many of them) I'm having a pretty hard time getting my head around the notion that it is somehow an outrageous request that you group together kids who know each other, especially at the younger ages.
Sure when the kids get to 10 or 11 and the herd has thinned and it is clear who the "A" kids really are it needs to be a stricter meritocracy but it seems silly before then.
NP. It is not that people aren't "getting" what you are asking. It is that people are telling you that you can't count on it. A coach isn't going to take a weaker player just so someone else can have a carpool. Even if both kids are placed on the same team come tryouts, there is no guarantee that they'll be on the same team by the end of the summer, much less the following year. Obviously clubs can't accommodate individual needs and preferences--it would be impossible!
That said, there are ways to accomplish what you hope. Obviously both kids try out and hope for the best. Or you can try out together for smaller clubs that have only one team. Or you can find clubs with academy style practice where you share carpool even if your kids don't play together on the weekend. Or you can take the lower placement of the two kids so both can be on the B or C team together. And of cpourse, you make the team, meet new families and work out carpools with them.
I have three kids who play travel and have done most of these things at some point. We have opted for practical and fun many times instead of the highest placement. But I have never expected a club to do anything but select the kids it wants.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 06:53
Subject: How good does a kid have to be to make travel
i’m not sure why you want travel competitive soccer and what comes with it. it sounds like you want travel to be more like recreational soccer. perhaps stay in recreational and hire an outside trainer?
unfortunately, your friends are going to have to make the team and at some clubs they might and at others maybe not.
unfortunately, your friends are going to have to make the team and at some clubs they might and at others maybe not.
Anonymous
12/13/2018 02:07
Subject: Re:How good does a kid have to be to make travel
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I've been following this thread with interest as DS is very good at soccer and loves to play and IIUC would be eligible to start on a travel team next fall, assuming he makes a team.
So two questions that haven't been clearly answered in this thread:
1) When you are offered a spot on a team do you know at that time whether you are getting and "A" team offer or not (or even "B") so you can decide if it is worth the hassle and expense?
2) How good are the various leagues at assessing talent, especially based on initial tryouts, when they haven't had the advantage of watching kids for a full season? And do kids get moved on and off the "A" team if those assessments turn out to be wrong, either in or out of season?
Also curious - DS has a good friend from his school who is also very good at soccer - assuming he also tries out what is the possibility we can engineer it so they get on the same team? We both have longer commutes and getting home 2 nights a week to get DS to a soccer practice out of the neighborhood is going to be really hard but if we could split the duties with someone it could make the difference in our ability to do this.
Thanks
1. A/B teams are generally worth it. Unless the clubs philosophy is to train Academy style, i.e. a player pool where the A and B teams essentially train together except for game day rosters you will most likely be offered a spot for a specific team. The team name provided may not mean anything to you so ask the coach if it is the first or second team.
2. Leagues do not asses talent. This is a constant irritation to me on these threads as people simply confuse clubs, league, teams as if they are interchangeable. They are not. Teams play/train in Clubs and Clubs join Leagues. A club will have several teams in any given age group and those teams within the age group may play in different leagues.
3. I would not try and "engineer" your son and friend to be on the same team. If that is what you want then play rec or classic. That doesn't mean that both kids don't make the same travel team but frankly it is obnoxious to even ask.
Definitely agree with #3. Clubs have no need to accommodate those types of requests, nor should they. If your kid and his friend try out at the same club and end up on the same team, that's a bonus for you.
Thanks for the responses but why in the world would clubs not try to accommodate such a request? It helps the parents (who are paying a lot for the privilege to participate) and I'm having a hard time fathoming what the injury or burden is to the club? Particularly since these clubs are apparently competing both for money and talent it seems odd to not stretch to help parents with logistics which might also help to ensure participation.
We are talking about elementary and middle school kids here.
You can't fathom it because you haven't thought it through.
It's a competitive process. There only so many spots on each team, and kids are supposed to make it (or not) based on merit. If one kid gets a spot that was "engineered" rather than earned, it means that another kid gets cut even though he or she deserved to make it. How fair is that?
In other words, if you try to "engineer" a kid on the team who doesn't deserve to be there based on merit, you are basically asking the club to screw over another child just to accommodate your convenience. That's why the PP said such a request would be obnoxious.
The only way I could see a club entertaining a request to "pair" two kids is if the parents of both kids agreed that the lowest team placement would be applied to both kids. In other words, if Johnny makes the A team and Bobby makes the B team then both kids would be placed on the B team.
After reading the responses to my earlier question about trying to link up kids from the same school on a travel soccer team I am starting to regret having a talented kid and not looking forward to rubbing shoulders with some of the people who have responded.
This entire thread is full of posts about how imperfect the process is of assigning kids and how important it is for the experience to still remain fun for the kids and how important the quality of the coaching is.
Yet the suggestion that the teams try to pair kids up in some manner is blasted as something that will ruin the suddenly unimpeachable process.
Look I get it - I've coached my older sons Little League team where there are tryouts and a draft for the express purpose of distributing the talent and trying to guarantee competitive games and player development.
But this also isn't rocket science, especially at the younger ages and soccer isn't as specialized as baseball is where you really have to get the handful of kids who can actually pitch fairly distributed and as repeatedly referenced since there are A/B/C/D teams (and many of them) I'm having a pretty hard time getting my head around the notion that it is somehow an outrageous request that you group together kids who know each other, especially at the younger ages.
Sure when the kids get to 10 or 11 and the herd has thinned and it is clear who the "A" kids really are it needs to be a stricter meritocracy but it seems silly before then.
Anonymous
12/12/2018 20:07
Subject: Re:How good does a kid have to be to make travel
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I've been following this thread with interest as DS is very good at soccer and loves to play and IIUC would be eligible to start on a travel team next fall, assuming he makes a team.
So two questions that haven't been clearly answered in this thread:
1) When you are offered a spot on a team do you know at that time whether you are getting and "A" team offer or not (or even "B") so you can decide if it is worth the hassle and expense?
2) How good are the various leagues at assessing talent, especially based on initial tryouts, when they haven't had the advantage of watching kids for a full season? And do kids get moved on and off the "A" team if those assessments turn out to be wrong, either in or out of season?
Also curious - DS has a good friend from his school who is also very good at soccer - assuming he also tries out what is the possibility we can engineer it so they get on the same team? We both have longer commutes and getting home 2 nights a week to get DS to a soccer practice out of the neighborhood is going to be really hard but if we could split the duties with someone it could make the difference in our ability to do this.
Thanks
1. A/B teams are generally worth it. Unless the clubs philosophy is to train Academy style, i.e. a player pool where the A and B teams essentially train together except for game day rosters you will most likely be offered a spot for a specific team. The team name provided may not mean anything to you so ask the coach if it is the first or second team.
2. Leagues do not asses talent. This is a constant irritation to me on these threads as people simply confuse clubs, league, teams as if they are interchangeable. They are not. Teams play/train in Clubs and Clubs join Leagues. A club will have several teams in any given age group and those teams within the age group may play in different leagues.
3. I would not try and "engineer" your son and friend to be on the same team. If that is what you want then play rec or classic. That doesn't mean that both kids don't make the same travel team but frankly it is obnoxious to even ask.
Definitely agree with #3. Clubs have no need to accommodate those types of requests, nor should they. If your kid and his friend try out at the same club and end up on the same team, that's a bonus for you.
Thanks for the responses but why in the world would clubs not try to accommodate such a request? It helps the parents (who are paying a lot for the privilege to participate) and I'm having a hard time fathoming what the injury or burden is to the club? Particularly since these clubs are apparently competing both for money and talent it seems odd to not stretch to help parents with logistics which might also help to ensure participation.
We are talking about elementary and middle school kids here.
You can't fathom it because you haven't thought it through.
It's a competitive process. There only so many spots on each team, and kids are supposed to make it (or not) based on merit. If one kid gets a spot that was "engineered" rather than earned, it means that another kid gets cut even though he or she deserved to make it. How fair is that?
In other words, if you try to "engineer" a kid on the team who doesn't deserve to be there based on merit, you are basically asking the club to screw over another child just to accommodate your convenience. That's why the PP said such a request would be obnoxious.
The only way I could see a club entertaining a request to "pair" two kids is if the parents of both kids agreed that the lowest team placement would be applied to both kids. In other words, if Johnny makes the A team and Bobby makes the B team then both kids would be placed on the B team.
Anonymous
12/12/2018 20:06
Subject: Re:How good does a kid have to be to make travel
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I've been following this thread with interest as DS is very good at soccer and loves to play and IIUC would be eligible to start on a travel team next fall, assuming he makes a team.
So two questions that haven't been clearly answered in this thread:
1) When you are offered a spot on a team do you know at that time whether you are getting and "A" team offer or not (or even "B") so you can decide if it is worth the hassle and expense?
2) How good are the various leagues at assessing talent, especially based on initial tryouts, when they haven't had the advantage of watching kids for a full season? And do kids get moved on and off the "A" team if those assessments turn out to be wrong, either in or out of season?
Also curious - DS has a good friend from his school who is also very good at soccer - assuming he also tries out what is the possibility we can engineer it so they get on the same team? We both have longer commutes and getting home 2 nights a week to get DS to a soccer practice out of the neighborhood is going to be really hard but if we could split the duties with someone it could make the difference in our ability to do this.
Thanks
1. A/B teams are generally worth it. Unless the clubs philosophy is to train Academy style, i.e. a player pool where the A and B teams essentially train together except for game day rosters you will most likely be offered a spot for a specific team. The team name provided may not mean anything to you so ask the coach if it is the first or second team.
2. Leagues do not asses talent. This is a constant irritation to me on these threads as people simply confuse clubs, league, teams as if they are interchangeable. They are not. Teams play/train in Clubs and Clubs join Leagues. A club will have several teams in any given age group and those teams within the age group may play in different leagues.
3. I would not try and "engineer" your son and friend to be on the same team. If that is what you want then play rec or classic. That doesn't mean that both kids don't make the same travel team but frankly it is obnoxious to even ask.
Definitely agree with #3. Clubs have no need to accommodate those types of requests, nor should they. If your kid and his friend try out at the same club and end up on the same team, that's a bonus for you.
Thanks for the responses but why in the world would clubs not try to accommodate such a request? It helps the parents (who are paying a lot for the privilege to participate) and I'm having a hard time fathoming what the injury or burden is to the club? Particularly since these clubs are apparently competing both for money and talent it seems odd to not stretch to help parents with logistics which might also help to ensure participation.
We are talking about elementary and middle school kids here.
You can't fathom it because you haven't thought it through.
It's a competitive process. There only so many spots on each team, and kids are supposed to make it (or not) based on merit. If one kid gets a spot that was "engineered" rather than earned, it means that another kid gets cut even though he or she deserved to make it. How fair is that?
In other words, if you try to "engineer" a kid on the team who doesn't deserve to be there based on merit, you are basically asking the club to screw over another child just to accommodate your convenience. That's why the PP said such a request would be obnoxious.
The only way I could see a club entertaining a request to "pair" two kids is if the parents of both kids agreed that the lowest team placement would be applied to both kids. In other words, if Johnny makes the A team and Bobby makes the B team then both kids would be placed on the B team.