Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 14:15     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:How in the HOLY F****was the driver supposed to see that short small child on a bike ???
WOW!!!
Luckily the driver saw them just in time to stop.
That was the parents' fault. YOU DON'T LET A SMALL CHILD RIDE A BIKE ACROSS A BUSY STREET ALONE!!


Have you read any of this thread? Specifically, the part where it's illegal for a driver to pass a car stopped at a crosswalk? The driver may or may not have seen the child. The driver certainly should have seen the stopped car.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 14:14     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, if this thread has confirmed anything, it's that people who refer themselves as "experienced urban bikers" generally are unmitigated douchenozzles.


My guess is that the "experienced urban bicyclist" PP is a vehicular cyclist.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/livable-city/la-oe-babin-protected-bike-lane-20160712-snap-story.html

Actually I have a lot of experience riding my bicycle in a city - specifically on the roads in an actual city, vs. on a bicycle trail in Takoma Park as in this video - but I don't refer to myself as an experienced urban bicyclist.


Lol. I have no hate for bike paths! I suppose I'm a "vehicular cyclist" by default because I've been city biking since before DC's bike path explosion. I suppose I'm being pretentious and overly safety cautious, but it horrifies me that people who likely have RF cleks in their subarus don't appear to know even the basics of city biking.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 14:12     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
How in the HOLY F****was the driver supposed to see that short small child on a bike ???
WOW!!!
Luckily the driver saw them just in time to stop.
That was the parents' fault. YOU DON'T LET A SMALL CHILD RIDE A BIKE ACROSS A BUSY STREET ALONE!!
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 14:12     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:If you look more closely at the video, the mom is right behind the little girl as they enter the intersection, and did prevent an accident by shouting at her because she saw the SUV wasn't stopping. I don't think it would have been all that different if they were walking the bikes - that SUV would have flown through the intersection while they were walking instead.


Yeah, I agree. I always stop in front of the first stopped car and peek around to make sure the second car actually stops. So many drivers are just so careless, and even when the careless ones do injure or kill they rarely get an meaningful punishment. I guess it's good to know that if you need to off someone, you can do it with your car and get off easy.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 14:10     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As a pedestrian or cyclist MAKE EYE CONTACT before crossing.

This is what they teach you on bike school. Yes, the driver who kills you in a crosswalk would be liable. But so what? Posters here who’d rather be right and dead. ....


Nobody has said that on this thread. In fact, nobody in my entire experience of discussions of transportation safety has ever said this. "The driver broke the law" is not a preference for being right and dead; it's a factual statement that the driver broke the law.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 14:06     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:As a pedestrian or cyclist MAKE EYE CONTACT before crossing.

This is what they teach you on bike school. Yes, the driver who kills you in a crosswalk would be liable. But so what? Posters here who’d rather be right and dead. ....
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 14:06     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
If you look more closely at the video, the mom is right behind the little girl as they enter the intersection, and did prevent an accident by shouting at her because she saw the SUV wasn't stopping. I don't think it would have been all that different if they were walking the bikes - that SUV would have flown through the intersection while they were walking instead.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 14:01     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:Well, if this thread has confirmed anything, it's that people who refer themselves as "experienced urban bikers" generally are unmitigated douchenozzles.


My guess is that the "experienced urban bicyclist" PP is a vehicular cyclist.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/livable-city/la-oe-babin-protected-bike-lane-20160712-snap-story.html

Actually I have a lot of experience riding my bicycle in a city - specifically on the roads in an actual city, vs. on a bicycle trail in Takoma Park as in this video - but I don't refer to myself as an experienced urban bicyclist.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 13:57     Subject: Re:Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I know this intersection this crosswalk - it's in Takoma Park and there is currently construction around there which complicates things. If you were this parent - would you want this posted on the local listserv? I think it would be good for the family to see it but don't want to be instrusive. Maybe a post that links to this thread? What do you think?


What would be your objective in posting it to the local listserv?


Somebody said they thought it would be good for the family to see it.

Responding to another PP - speed limit is 35 there.


I think the family is already well-aware of what happened, why do they need to see a replay?


I agree. No need to rub it in.

I would have walked the bikes across as a family....once all traffic was stopped. Being right doesn’t mean you can’t be dead.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 13:57     Subject: Re:Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, but this isn't about responsiblity. Life is not actually a jury trial (and juries get things wrong). Life as a parent is about understanding risks and taking appropriate action to protection your child. It's a weird, DC, privileged point of view to think that your parenting can be totally exempt from responsiblity about what actually happens in the world.


In contrast, it's a very American (in the sense of American culture) point of view to think that drivers can be totally exempt from responsibility about what actually happens on the road. In the Netherlands, for example, a driver who collides with a person on a bicycle is always at fault. Maybe if we had that attitude, it would be safer to bicycle, which means more people would bicycle, which in turn would make it even safer to bicycle.



Again, did anyone say the drivers are exempt?

No.

We parent in the actual world; not in our own private imaginary Copenhagens. Thus, get off your damn bike and walk your kid across the street.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 13:56     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, if this thread has confirmed anything, it's that people who refer themselves as "experienced urban bikers" generally are unmitigated douchenozzles.


lol. go ahead and call me a douche for wanting your kid to be safe. what is this, jr high?


Also I'm sure you feel all hip and all in your $5000 bakfiet you got mail-ordered from Amsterdam, but you actually look pretty douchy and your kids look miserable in there.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 13:55     Subject: Re:Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, but this isn't about responsiblity. Life is not actually a jury trial (and juries get things wrong). Life as a parent is about understanding risks and taking appropriate action to protection your child. It's a weird, DC, privileged point of view to think that your parenting can be totally exempt from responsiblity about what actually happens in the world.


In contrast, it's a very American (in the sense of American culture) point of view to think that drivers can be totally exempt from responsibility about what actually happens on the road. In the Netherlands, for example, a driver who collides with a person on a bicycle is always at fault. Maybe if we had that attitude, it would be safer to bicycle, which means more people would bicycle, which in turn would make it even safer to bicycle.

Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 13:54     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:Well, if this thread has confirmed anything, it's that people who refer themselves as "experienced urban bikers" generally are unmitigated douchenozzles.


lol. go ahead and call me a douche for wanting your kid to be safe. what is this, jr high?
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 13:53     Subject: Re:Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The parents are not blameless here (they were “right” but their kid was nearly killed) but how did the dad stay on his bike and not hop off and bang on the car? I think I would have to have been retstained in screaming anger.


After the SUV stopped (past the crosswalk) the mom and dad both yelled at the driver. The dad has one of those baby carriers for bikes so I'm sure that helped restrain him. It's probably also why he went across first. If you look at the 13 second mark, you can see the sidewalk isn't wide enough for the mom and girl to get onto the road at the same time. By the time the mom got onto the road she almost fell off her bike yelling at her daughter to stop. I don't know how they could have done it differently. The only other option would be for the child to get into the first lane of traffic and wait for mom to get onto the road before crossing. That doesn't sound like a great choice either.

Mom and daughter dismount. Wait for all traffic to stop. Then proceed cautiously.


Exactly. I don’t cross until all visible traffic is stopped. You cannot assume people will stop.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 13:53     Subject: Re:Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The $1 million or $10 million from the driver’s umbrella policy or lawsuit in a wrongful death would be cold comfort. As a parent, you need to be smarter.


As a driver, you need to be smarter. It would be cold comfort to you that your driver's insurance paid out to the dead child's family, wouldn't it?

Don’t be ridiculous. A lot of things could be improved from that video. But between a driver and a parent, who do you rely on to be smarter when it comes to the safety of your child? If you say driver, you need to be smarter. Else, you could have an insurance payment and a funeral.


My personal opinion is that the people who have the potential to kill other people while traveling have the greatest responsibility to be careful.

The most careful behavior in the world can't prevent a careless driver from killing you. That's why we need to focus on the careless drivers.

Don’t be obtuse. Dismounting the bikes and waiting a completely clear road in time to cross or for the cars to all come to a stop would have prevented this near miss. Yeah, it’s a pain, takes longer, people get impatient. It’s what’s required here.


It also is a pain and takes longer to make sure a crosswalk is clear before you cross it. Drivers are impatient, I know. But they are required to stop and this driver did not.

And yes, every day, people run across crosswalks faster than this kid was going on her bike.

Stop driving if you cannot see that the crosswalk is clear. It is simple. Perhaps it is hard for some people but then they should not be driving.