Anonymous
Post 12/18/2022 21:16     Subject: Re:Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
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Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!


Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.


I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.


NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.


How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.


So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.


One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.


That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.


No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?


Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.


I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.


No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.


Again, if you answer what "ethnicity" means to you, that might be helpful. Obviously I agree that my DS has ethnically Ashkenazi genes. What's the point beyond that? He won't identify as "Jewish" the way things are headed now. So he's ethnically ASHKENAZI, not ethnically Jewish. Just like I am ethnically Irish/Celtic, not ethnically Irish Catholic.


And PS: one of the reasons, among others, that he won't identify as Jewish is because he thinks Christmas is better than Hannukah. Fact. Sorry.


If Judaism is reduced to Hannukah the game is already lost.


So I'm supposed to teach him that by dint of the slight majority of Ashkenazi genes, he's Jewish and not Catholic?


If you want to raise him as Catholic, that is your choice. Just don't blame "hanukah is not as good as christmas" for his desire to not identify as Jewish. Jews who participate more fully in Judaism are not as obsessed with the christmas vs hanukkah comparison.


A person born Jewish is Jewish no matter what they celebrate or how fully they participate in your narrow view of Judaism. You don't get to tell other Jews that they are not doing Jewish right. People with your judgmental attitude are one reason many Jews don't "participate."


Uh-huh. Not judging is another Christian concept you have absorbed. Jews are responsible for other Jews and preserving our culture. Jews who do practice Judaism but practice Christianity, Islam, etc. are no longer Jews.


The Torah disagrees with you.


WRONG IT DOES NOT


You must not be Jewish. If you were, you would know that anyone born of a Jewish mother, or who converts to Judaism, is Jewish. You can be baptized and Jewish law still considers you a Jew. Even your mother can have been baptized. There is no "out" of Jewishness, even if you never practice the religion and even if you have a Christmas tree. Which is not to say anyone is forcing a Jewish identity on those who don't want it, but rather that it is always there to claim. If you are a Jew, then you need to study some Torah. If you are not, then you need to myob.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2022 11:05     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Another Jewish family here. No Christmas in our home, but happy to participate in friends' holiday celebrations in their homes. I have always felt it is really important to set up unambiguous Jewish identity for kids. That's obviously much more than a mere absence of Christmas, but families that intend to stay Jewish across generations stand a far better chance if kids grow up really feeling they are not part of the mainstream culture and really shouldn't disappear into it.

Hanukkah observance is modest and mostly for kids, but let's remember it is also about a victory over pressure to assimilate both religiously and culturally. In increasingly embattled times like today, when the Right has a problem with our stubborn religiousness and maybe our too-ethnic DNA and the Left has a problem with us if we insist on maintaining our particularity (and any kind of religious outlook or observance that would have been at all recognizable to our ancestors) Hanukkah actually offers great comfort.

So Hanukkah is the Jewish Christmas
Is sneering at Christmas the way to isolate the kids from the mainstream culture?
So what if someone has a holiday you do not celebrate? No need to hate a holiday you do not celebrate

I suspect your kids do feel isolated already anyway


Weird response, there. You're responding to me. The way this works is that my kid invites your kid to eat jelly donuts and/or tasty fried potatoes at our house, then your kid invites my kid to eat gingerbread at your house. That way, we get a nice cultural exchange, all the kids get treats, and no one's ancestral traditions get erased by assimilation. There is no one operating in good faith who would consider that "sneering at Christmas," but we've been keeping our project going for 2000 years and, for those of us who intend to keep the chain going without breaking it, we do this by teaching our kids where they come from and where they do not come from.

Hanukkah is not the Jewish Christmas in any sense except that it's a holiday that happens at the same time. That thing about "isolation" presumes that Jewish kids don't have Jewish kid friends to share Hanukkah with.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2022 10:51     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Anonymous wrote:We do a tree, presents and stockings.

Christmas is not a Christian holiday, as much as they like to think that Jesus was born on December 25. It's a pagan holiday and a secular one.



Christmas is a Christian holiday, originating from the pagan holiday observing the passing of the winter solstice (dec 22) and the beginning of more daylight
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2022 10:49     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:Agnostic Jew here. Santa comes to my kids so we have stockings. We get Chinese Food. That’s how we celebrate. It has nothing to do with Christ for us. It’s Santa and exchanging gifts and that’s it. We don’t have a tree and we don’t put up other decorations. It isn’t religious for us.

And btw, I am Jewish regardless of whether I believe in God or not. My bloodline is 100% Askenhazi. It’s an ethnoreligion. And what I do in my house is no one else’s business


Uh-huh. And you can’t even spell Ashkenazi.



I doubt anyone cares about pp's spelling -- but you.

Interesting message though. I'm a catholic atheist -- I like to go to Mass on easter and Christmas for the show.


Why are you centering yourself in this discussion, then?


Centering? -- just checking out the conversation and commenting
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2022 10:04     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We do a tree, presents and stockings.

Christmas is not a Christian holiday, as much as they like to think that Jesus was born on December 25. It's a pagan holiday and a secular one.



Wrong wrong wrong. It is culturally Christian, and certainly not a Jewish holiday.


It can be Christian, pagan, and secular all at the same time, different things to different people, no one person gets to claim it. That’s just the way it is. Valentine’s Day has religious roots too, but no one considers that a religious holiday. The pagan roots of many Christmas traditions are well-established.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2022 09:50     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Anonymous wrote:We do a tree, presents and stockings.

Christmas is not a Christian holiday, as much as they like to think that Jesus was born on December 25. It's a pagan holiday and a secular one.



Wrong wrong wrong. It is culturally Christian, and certainly not a Jewish holiday.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2022 09:00     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
We do a tree, presents and stockings.

Christmas is not a Christian holiday, as much as they like to think that Jesus was born on December 25. It's a pagan holiday and a secular one.

Anonymous
Post 12/18/2022 08:58     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Muslim here, and nonimmigrant. I grew up in the Midwest and had Christmas traditions forced upon me in public school. We had to sing songs about Mary being holy, the virgin birth of Jesus. Mind you, these actually align with our beliefs as well but it made me uncomfortable. We also had to write letters to Santa. Once we had to sing a song in French about Jesus being born divine, which is considered a big sin for us. I didn’t know any better. Now as an adult, I choose not to celebrate Christmas at home, but help celebrate it with friends. We exchange gifts with neighbors, attend “holiday parties” etc. I just don’t see the need to have a tree and gifts for the kids with Santa because those are not my beliefs. My dearest friend is Catholic and she wishes me Eid Mubarak but it would be weird if she fasted for 30 days. I don’t feel like I need to celebrate Christmas to fit in, but that doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy watching others celebrate.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2022 03:12     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Agnostic Jew here. Santa comes to my kids so we have stockings. We get Chinese Food. That’s how we celebrate. It has nothing to do with Christ for us. It’s Santa and exchanging gifts and that’s it. We don’t have a tree and we don’t put up other decorations. It isn’t religious for us.

And btw, I am Jewish regardless of whether I believe in God or not. My bloodline is 100% Askenhazi. It’s an ethnoreligion. And what I do in my house is no one else’s business


Uh-huh. And you can’t even spell Ashkenazi.



I doubt anyone cares about pp's spelling -- but you.

Interesting message though. I'm a catholic atheist -- I like to go to Mass on easter and Christmas for the show.


Why are you centering yourself in this discussion, then?
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2022 23:30     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
We celebrate Christmas in the traditional American Jewish manner: by eating Chinese food and seeing a movie. Otherwise, no. This year, I volunteered to be on call for work so people who do celebrate didn’t have to worry about it.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2022 19:05     Subject: Re:Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!


Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.


I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.


NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.


How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.


So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.


One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.


That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.


No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?


Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.


I came up 100 percent from one small eastern european country on 23 and me---and actually not just the country but the village area where my great grandmother was from---but that does not define my race. Im just saying I have no idea if Askenazi or Sephardic are racial groups (and I totally want to stay out of that discussion) but I do know that 23 and me can pinpoint exact geographical region--down to country and even village.

Anonymous
Post 12/17/2022 18:53     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Agnostic Jew here. Santa comes to my kids so we have stockings. We get Chinese Food. That’s how we celebrate. It has nothing to do with Christ for us. It’s Santa and exchanging gifts and that’s it. We don’t have a tree and we don’t put up other decorations. It isn’t religious for us.

And btw, I am Jewish regardless of whether I believe in God or not. My bloodline is 100% Askenhazi. It’s an ethnoreligion. And what I do in my house is no one else’s business


Uh-huh. And you can’t even spell Ashkenazi.



I doubt anyone cares about pp's spelling -- but you.

Interesting message though. I'm a catholic atheist -- I like to go to Mass on easter and Christmas for the show.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2022 17:46     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
My Christmas is eating Peking Duck and watching a movie.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2022 17:24     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Anonymous wrote:Agnostic Jew here. Santa comes to my kids so we have stockings. We get Chinese Food. That’s how we celebrate. It has nothing to do with Christ for us. It’s Santa and exchanging gifts and that’s it. We don’t have a tree and we don’t put up other decorations. It isn’t religious for us.

And btw, I am Jewish regardless of whether I believe in God or not. My bloodline is 100% Askenhazi. It’s an ethnoreligion. And what I do in my house is no one else’s business


Uh-huh. And you can’t even spell Ashkenazi.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2022 15:53     Subject: Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?
Agnostic Jew here. Santa comes to my kids so we have stockings. We get Chinese Food. That’s how we celebrate. It has nothing to do with Christ for us. It’s Santa and exchanging gifts and that’s it. We don’t have a tree and we don’t put up other decorations. It isn’t religious for us.

And btw, I am Jewish regardless of whether I believe in God or not. My bloodline is 100% Askenhazi. It’s an ethnoreligion. And what I do in my house is no one else’s business