Anonymous
04/15/2018 14:14
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Students reviews:
http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html
http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html
UChicago:
B (Overall college rating)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
C+
Extracurricular Activities
B
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
UVA:
B+ (Overall score)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
B+
Extracurricular Activities
A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
No scores on crime/safety? Interesting.
One of Chicago parents posted that Chicago provides extra security for students. This speaks of volumes. When I went to U of M and St. John's in 80's, we hardly needed protection.
I would be more worried about safety in C-ville.
Let me guess, you still live within 7 miles of your high school.
????
Several hours away from my HS. Also went to a private university several hours away from my HS.
As a woman, I’d be more concerned about getting raped, murdered, or run over in C-ville than anything at Chicago. I’d love to hear students’ perspective on safety, like the survey above.
Have you been out of your state before?
Despite the high-profile case of murder at CVille, the crime rate is very low - its an area made up of mostly upper middle class families with the extremely wealthy owning huge properties all over the Piedmont. To compare Chicago and Cville in terms of safety is laughable.
Out of “my” state? Which one is mine exactly?
Which high-profile murder do you mean? The lax girl? The blond downtown? The girl run over by the white supremacist?
I’d be more worried about rape TBH.
Anonymous
04/15/2018 14:04
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When people ask these kinds of questions, why do they never provide financial details? Genuinely curious.
One it’s a public forum. And two, if OP is rich they’ll get all go to top ranked, you can afford it. If not, a bunch of no brainer go to UVA. Kills debate.
And it's also anonymous soWe don't need to know your net worth, just whether you have the money saved or not.
Nah, you really don’t need to know that. And if OP has saved the money, that doesn’t resolve the issue. There’s still the question of whether this is how they want to use the $$ they’ve saved.
What else would you use it for? If you've saved ~ $300k in a 529, it's not like you can suddenly decide "oh hey I'd rather give this to you as a house down payment."
To add to this, I just don't get the point of these types of questions. Listen, we're saving as much as we can for our kids' college educations ($1250 a month per kid). I'm sure they'll also apply to their state schools as backup. But if they get into high priced privates, that's where they'll go because that's literally what we're saving the money for. I just don't get it. Why save that money if not to pull it out now and be like "hey yes you can in fact go to that school that costs $70k a day."
If you've saved enough that your savings = 4 years @ $70K, they could also choose to go to the 4 years @ $40K school and have grad school paid for too. When you are talking about UofC vs. UVA that seems like the wiser choice. A student who does well at UVA is not going to lack in opportunities for good graduate programs.
Anonymous
04/15/2018 13:06
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Ha! So true. I grew up in an area where no one attended top tier schools so I always had this idea that going to one of those schools implied certain things about one’s intelligence. One nice thing about now living in DC is that I’ve met enough people who went to fancy top-tier schools to immediately disabuse myself of any notion that going to them means someone is particularly smart. Or in a lot of cases, even remotely competent.
Anonymous
04/15/2018 12:57
Subject: Re:Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DH is a highly placed corporate executive who went to Ivies, both undergrad and for business school. He works for a very large household name company. Most of his coworkers at his level did not go to expensive private colleges, at least for undergrad (some did go to well known business schools). Most went to flagship state universities and were recruited into the corporate world working for companies like Coca Cola for a few years before going for a MBA.
I would not pick Chicago solely in the hopes it would give your child a better shot at a more successful life if the alternative is UVA. UVA is a well known and reputable university that produces thousands of successful graduates. Any financial or employment advantages at Chicago will be going through a very specific type of recruitment track into the financial and consulting sectors and most kids don't do that, and even if you want to, it's not given you'll make it. Many applicants, even at the Ivies, get weeded out by the big firms.
UVA is a perfectly fine school. If money is a factor, go to UVA. It really is no brainer. If money is not a factor and you are appealed by the academic environment at Chicago, then go to Chicago. Just don't expect Chicago to open up that many more doors over UVA and it does depend on what kind of doors you're seeing to break through.
Here's a dirty secret about the top colleges. They all have many unique, individualistic and geeky students who do not go into the finances or law/business/medical schools. They become teachers, they work for nonprofits, they go into the arts. They barely struggle to make it into the upper middle classes. Most are usually happy in their own way. At the same time, the state schools top of of the class will usually end up doing very well. They go into businesses and sales and top graduate schools. If you're looking at Chicago solely as an investment into your child's future financial well being, it most likely won't pay for itself over UVA. If you're looking at Chicago as a great gift to your child, to offer the experience of studying at a fabulous and academically intense university for four years, then that's understandable.
I want to pick this argument apart, but as much as I hate to admit it, this is true. You can be very successful going to a private school, a state school or even a directional University because the most important factor in determining your success in life is not where you go, but who you are. Do you have the work ethic, can you get along with and inspire people, do you take calculated risks in your life, are you open to learning new things and skills without fear of failure etc. These are character traits and schools can't teach you these.
So why go to private schools? The main reason is: you can. It is really a gift you give to your kids, if you can afford it without destroying yourself financially. Money matters in education and the richer private schools have more resources that your kid can potentially exploit. Your kid may or may not exploit them, but they could. Elite schools like Chicago also act as a mild signal that you are smart to anyone who knows very little about you except where you went to school. But if you open your mouth and say something dumb, then that signal vanishes quickly. The name on your degree and personal accomplishment of having made it to a selective school is also something that nobody can ever take away from you for the rest of your life. It's just personal satisfaction. It's not as big as finding and marrying the right person or being a good decent human being but it is something.
Some of the dumbest people I've seen came out of UChicago and Claremont McKenna. It's not that they were dumber than others. They were as smart as others, but they constantly underestimated others and/or overestimated themselves. Long story short is one of them decided to quit after she realized people really don't care for her or her attitude. Last we heard, she was driving Uber. That was her choice.
Yes to all of this. I see this all of the time in Northern Virginia. They can’t handle the fact that no one cares about their “pedigree” and are seriously butt hurt when they realize that you make more money than they do, even with state college quals. It’s kind of fun to rile them up!
Anonymous
04/15/2018 12:07
Subject: Re:Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DH is a highly placed corporate executive who went to Ivies, both undergrad and for business school. He works for a very large household name company. Most of his coworkers at his level did not go to expensive private colleges, at least for undergrad (some did go to well known business schools). Most went to flagship state universities and were recruited into the corporate world working for companies like Coca Cola for a few years before going for a MBA.
I would not pick Chicago solely in the hopes it would give your child a better shot at a more successful life if the alternative is UVA. UVA is a well known and reputable university that produces thousands of successful graduates. Any financial or employment advantages at Chicago will be going through a very specific type of recruitment track into the financial and consulting sectors and most kids don't do that, and even if you want to, it's not given you'll make it. Many applicants, even at the Ivies, get weeded out by the big firms.
UVA is a perfectly fine school. If money is a factor, go to UVA. It really is no brainer. If money is not a factor and you are appealed by the academic environment at Chicago, then go to Chicago. Just don't expect Chicago to open up that many more doors over UVA and it does depend on what kind of doors you're seeing to break through.
Here's a dirty secret about the top colleges. They all have many unique, individualistic and geeky students who do not go into the finances or law/business/medical schools. They become teachers, they work for nonprofits, they go into the arts. They barely struggle to make it into the upper middle classes. Most are usually happy in their own way. At the same time, the state schools top of of the class will usually end up doing very well. They go into businesses and sales and top graduate schools. If you're looking at Chicago solely as an investment into your child's future financial well being, it most likely won't pay for itself over UVA. If you're looking at Chicago as a great gift to your child, to offer the experience of studying at a fabulous and academically intense university for four years, then that's understandable.
I want to pick this argument apart, but as much as I hate to admit it, this is true. You can be very successful going to a private school, a state school or even a directional University because the most important factor in determining your success in life is not where you go, but who you are. Do you have the work ethic, can you get along with and inspire people, do you take calculated risks in your life, are you open to learning new things and skills without fear of failure etc. These are character traits and schools can't teach you these.
So why go to private schools? The main reason is: you can. It is really a gift you give to your kids, if you can afford it without destroying yourself financially. Money matters in education and the richer private schools have more resources that your kid can potentially exploit. Your kid may or may not exploit them, but they could. Elite schools like Chicago also act as a mild signal that you are smart to anyone who knows very little about you except where you went to school. But if you open your mouth and say something dumb, then that signal vanishes quickly. The name on your degree and personal accomplishment of having made it to a selective school is also something that nobody can ever take away from you for the rest of your life. It's just personal satisfaction. It's not as big as finding and marrying the right person or being a good decent human being but it is something.
Some of the dumbest people I've seen came out of UChicago and Claremont McKenna. It's not that they were dumber than others. They were as smart as others, but they constantly underestimated others and/or overestimated themselves. Long story short is one of them decided to quit after she realized people really don't care for her or her attitude. Last we heard, she was driving Uber. That was her choice.
Anonymous
04/15/2018 11:49
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When people ask these kinds of questions, why do they never provide financial details? Genuinely curious.
One it’s a public forum. And two, if OP is rich they’ll get all go to top ranked, you can afford it. If not, a bunch of no brainer go to UVA. Kills debate.
And it's also anonymous so
Nah, you really don’t need to know that. And if OP has saved the money, that doesn’t resolve the issue. There’s still the question of whether this is how they want to use the $$ they’ve saved.
What else would you use it for? If you've saved ~ $300k in a 529, it's not like you can suddenly decide "oh hey I'd rather give this to you as a house down payment."
Grad school, other kids.
Anonymous
04/15/2018 11:47
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or we just have fundamentally different values.
Scorecard data, BTW, will not be indicative of salaries generally. It’s based only on attendees who received federal aid.
How do you think this affects the data?
For one thing it changes ROI calculations because the spread between the costs of the two schools narrows dramatically in that income bracket. (It’s only about $6,400 per year, and the salary differential at year 10 is about $4,800 per year. Chicago is the higher figure in both cases). Also, a working class kid’s version of what a comfortable salary looks like may well be very different from an upper middle class kid’s. (I say this as a former working class kid who chose academia over BigLaw — both represented upward mobility to me, and one involved work that seemed to me to be a helluva lot more interesting than the other.). Plus the UMC kid may well have opportunities not available to the working-class kid (based on upbringing, network, wealth, etc.)
I’ll also add that a worker whose terminal degree is a BA will be at a very different place in his or her career (wrt future earning potential) 10 years out of college vs a worker who has earned a PhD or MD or even a JD. This is a separate issue from the unrepresentative sample, but it also affects how you interpret the data. Personally, if I were an ROI type, I’d be more interested in earnings/assets of alumni in their mid 50s than their early 30s.
For the (other) poster who claimed that scorecard data was for all alumni. Nope, the website is quite specific: “Salary After Attending” is defined as “The median earnings of former students who received federal financial aid, at 10 years after entering the school.” (Emphasis mine).
Anonymous
04/15/2018 11:26
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
You can smell the strivers in this thread. Jesus Christ, relax.
Anonymous
04/15/2018 11:16
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When people ask these kinds of questions, why do they never provide financial details? Genuinely curious.
One it’s a public forum. And two, if OP is rich they’ll get all go to top ranked, you can afford it. If not, a bunch of no brainer go to UVA. Kills debate.
And it's also anonymous so
Nah, you really don’t need to know that. And if OP has saved the money, that doesn’t resolve the issue. There’s still the question of whether this is how they want to use the $$ they’ve saved.
What else would you use it for? If you've saved ~ $300k in a 529, it's not like you can suddenly decide "oh hey I'd rather give this to you as a house down payment."
To add to this, I just don't get the point of these types of questions. Listen, we're saving as much as we can for our kids' college educations ($1250 a month per kid). I'm sure they'll also apply to their state schools as backup. But if they get into high priced privates, that's where they'll go because that's literally what we're saving the money for. I just don't get it. Why save that money if not to pull it out now and be like "hey yes you can in fact go to that school that costs $70k a day."
Anonymous
04/15/2018 11:14
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When people ask these kinds of questions, why do they never provide financial details? Genuinely curious.
One it’s a public forum. And two, if OP is rich they’ll get all go to top ranked, you can afford it. If not, a bunch of no brainer go to UVA. Kills debate.
And it's also anonymous so
Nah, you really don’t need to know that. And if OP has saved the money, that doesn’t resolve the issue. There’s still the question of whether this is how they want to use the $$ they’ve saved.
What else would you use it for? If you've saved ~ $300k in a 529, it's not like you can suddenly decide "oh hey I'd rather give this to you as a house down payment."
Anonymous
04/15/2018 11:12
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Students reviews:
http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html
http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html
UChicago:
B (Overall college rating)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
C+
Extracurricular Activities
B
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
UVA:
B+ (Overall score)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
B+
Extracurricular Activities
A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
No scores on crime/safety? Interesting.
One of Chicago parents posted that Chicago provides extra security for students. This speaks of volumes. When I went to U of M and St. John's in 80's, we hardly needed protection.
I would be more worried about safety in C-ville.
Let me guess, you still live within 7 miles of your high school.
????
Several hours away from my HS. Also went to a private university several hours away from my HS.
As a woman, I’d be more concerned about getting raped, murdered, or run over in C-ville than anything at Chicago. I’d love to hear students’ perspective on safety, like the survey above.
Have you been out of your state before?
Despite the high-profile case of murder at CVille, the crime rate is very low - its an area made up of mostly upper middle class families with the extremely wealthy owning huge properties all over the Piedmont. To compare Chicago and Cville in terms of safety is laughable.
Anonymous
04/15/2018 11:08
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Students reviews:
http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html
http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html
UChicago:
B (Overall college rating)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
C+
Extracurricular Activities
B
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
UVA:
B+ (Overall score)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
B+
Extracurricular Activities
A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
No scores on crime/safety? Interesting.
One of Chicago parents posted that Chicago provides extra security for students. This speaks of volumes. When I went to U of M and St. John's in 80's, we hardly needed protection.
I would be more worried about safety in C-ville.
Let me guess, you still live within 7 miles of your high school.
????
Several hours away from my HS. Also went to a private university several hours away from my HS.
As a woman, I’d be more concerned about getting raped, murdered, or run over in C-ville than anything at Chicago. I’d love to hear students’ perspective on safety, like the survey above.
Anonymous
04/15/2018 11:03
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Students reviews:
http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html
http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html
UChicago:
B (Overall college rating)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
C+
Extracurricular Activities
B
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
UVA:
B+ (Overall score)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
B+
Extracurricular Activities
A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
No scores on crime/safety? Interesting.
One of Chicago parents posted that Chicago provides extra security for students. This speaks of volumes. When I went to U of M and St. John's in 80's, we hardly needed protection.
I would be more worried about safety in C-ville.
Let me guess, you still live within 7 miles of your high school.
?????
PP here in California.
Anonymous
04/15/2018 11:00
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or we just have fundamentally different values.
Scorecard data, BTW, will not be indicative of salaries generally. It’s based only on attendees who received federal aid.
Wrong. Gov scorecard pulls all students.
No you're wrong. The Govt can only track the data of folks they have data on and these are the folks who applied for financial aid through the Govt. It is incomplete data, specially for schools that have a lot of institutional funds and are need blind and also have a lot of full pay kids.
Finally, Chicago has changed a lot in the last year years. All Govt or private pay level data for Chicago based on earlier cohorts is just not representative anymore. They are now attracting richer and more professionally oriented students and these students will have different career trajectories
That's even better if the scorecard data controls for extraneous factors. Scorecard also shows the following:
MIT. $94200
Harvard. $90900
Yale. $83200
Princeton. $80500
Stanford $85700
Duke. $77000
UChicago. $65000
Anonymous
04/15/2018 10:58
Subject: Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Students reviews:
http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html
http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html
UChicago:
B (Overall college rating)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
C+
Extracurricular Activities
B
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
UVA:
B+ (Overall score)
Education Quality
A-
Social Life
B+
Extracurricular Activities
A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending
B+
Surrounding City
No scores on crime/safety? Interesting.
One of Chicago parents posted that Chicago provides extra security for students. This speaks of volumes. When I went to U of M and St. John's in 80's, we hardly needed protection.
I would be more worried about safety in C-ville.
Let me guess, you still live within 7 miles of your high school.