Anonymous
Post 09/09/2016 08:09     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I feel like certain people will flounder no matter what their major.


And picking a useless major is just one symptom of floundering -- why be an enabler? Unless the kid is at HYPS --- they can do anything and still do well.

But what a lot of us are saying is that they're not (necessarily) useless majors. Listen, I have a BA in theatre from AU, and I have a full time paying job in a theatre non-profit, plus a thriving freelance career. DH has a degree in Poli Sci, also from AU, and he's a lobbyist. Sure, I put in my time as a bartender, but I made a crap ton of money doing it, and also learned a lot about customer service and work ethic. It. Can. Work.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2016 08:00     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I feel like certain people will flounder no matter what their major.


And picking a useless major is just one symptom of floundering -- why be an enabler? Unless the kid is at HYPS --- they can do anything and still do well.


Why not read about these flounderers......http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/education/edlife/four-steps-to-choosing-a-career-path.html?emc=eta1

IMO if both you and your child lack imagination, by all means follow the lemmings and pick what you think is a practical major... at least they won't be alone in their misery when all the other kids forced into STEM and Business start to deal with their unhappiness.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2016 07:55     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Thinking about this whole conversation over the weekend. Thinking it's kind of a rehash of those previous generations where Junior was required to either go into Dad's business or go to medical school - regardless of his actual inclinations or happiness.

Here's my take on it: You're being a selfish parent if you force your child to do something that will make them deeply unhappy because you are not the one who will pay the price for that child's unhappiness. You know who will? Your son's unfortunate spouse and your son's unfortunate children.

My dad was forced to go to medical school and he HATED being a doctor! He hated his life. He hated working 60 hours a week at a job that he was really, really ill-suited for. He became a mean drunk and took it out on my mom and us kids.

He hoarded his money and quit as soon as he possibly could. The moment he stopped working at a job he hated he was able to quit drinking, he got a job that he loved in our city government, he made friends and he's actually a delightful person to be around.

THe problem is that his kids are still paying the price for having been raised in a house with crazy people who screamed and yelled all the time. His parents? Not so much. THey enjoyed the high-end appliances he bought them, the car, the trips and then they went home.

They were selfish and clueless. Yes, maybe my dad would have been a mean drunk even if his parents didnt force him to be a doctor -- but I suspect it had a lot to do with it.

If you force your child to spend most of their waking hours doing something they hate and are ill-suited for, you are being selfish and self-centered. ANd kind of immature.



"Forcing" or more accurately willing to fund a practical degree is not the same as requiring your kid to go into a specific field. I plan on telling my kids that I will only pay for a degree that has an actual job that can be done with a B.S. I'm not paying for a degree where someone would ask"What are you going to do with that?" My kids can major in STEM, Business, Elementary Education, whatever as long as there is a job that is associated with the degree. That is far different than telling your kid that they can only be a doctor or a lawyer.


Perhaps. But it's still not a very smart position to take.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2016 07:33     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:I feel like certain people will flounder no matter what their major.


And picking a useless major is just one symptom of floundering -- why be an enabler? Unless the kid is at HYPS --- they can do anything and still do well.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 21:49     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:I feel like certain people will flounder no matter what their major.



+1
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 17:15     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
I feel like certain people will flounder no matter what their major.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 17:11     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How does a parent force their kid to change their major? Do they threaten to stop paying? Would they rather their kid be miserable? Does not sound like a real life problem except maybe if your parents are overseas or first gen immigrants.
My few friends who are struggling with student debt all went to law school and later realized that working in the field was ruining their life.



I knew someone who wanted to be an anthro major but her parents said only engineering/science or busines or they would stop paying. She drifted from job to job as a business major and basically hated her life. She also tried to getinto anthro afterward but no one wanted a PhD student in anthro at a top school with a business degree.

While anthropology is a very interesting field, there is very little paying work in it. Chances are she couldn't get into a PhD program because it's extremely competitive and there are very few openings. It probably had little to do with her existing degree.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 17:09     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Late to the convo - my wife and I both have stem degrees. I went into law and so am more open go LA degrees for our kids. She stayed in tech and is more of the mindset that they need practical degrees.

She sees a lot of her girlfriends with psych and sociology degrees and they are just foundering professionally.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 17:00     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:How does a parent force their kid to change their major? Do they threaten to stop paying? Would they rather their kid be miserable? Does not sound like a real life problem except maybe if your parents are overseas or first gen immigrants.
My few friends who are struggling with student debt all went to law school and later realized that working in the field was ruining their life.



I knew someone who wanted to be an anthro major but her parents said only engineering/science or busines or they would stop paying. She drifted from job to job as a business major and basically hated her life. She also tried to getinto anthro afterward but no one wanted a PhD student in anthro at a top school with a business degree.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 16:50     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
How does a parent force their kid to change their major? Do they threaten to stop paying? Would they rather their kid be miserable? Does not sound like a real life problem except maybe if your parents are overseas or first gen immigrants.
My few friends who are struggling with student debt all went to law school and later realized that working in the field was ruining their life.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 11:05     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:No, it reduces the problem to a single, meaningless dimension and claims victory.


See?

Apparently you don't even comprehend the power of abstract thinking.

Good writing, bad writing...what I really see lacking in many grads is proper thinking.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 11:02     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:Thinking about this whole conversation over the weekend. Thinking it's kind of a rehash of those previous generations where Junior was required to either go into Dad's business or go to medical school - regardless of his actual inclinations or happiness.

Here's my take on it: You're being a selfish parent if you force your child to do something that will make them deeply unhappy because you are not the one who will pay the price for that child's unhappiness. You know who will? Your son's unfortunate spouse and your son's unfortunate children.

My dad was forced to go to medical school and he HATED being a doctor! He hated his life. He hated working 60 hours a week at a job that he was really, really ill-suited for. He became a mean drunk and took it out on my mom and us kids.

He hoarded his money and quit as soon as he possibly could. The moment he stopped working at a job he hated he was able to quit drinking, he got a job that he loved in our city government, he made friends and he's actually a delightful person to be around.

THe problem is that his kids are still paying the price for having been raised in a house with crazy people who screamed and yelled all the time. His parents? Not so much. THey enjoyed the high-end appliances he bought them, the car, the trips and then they went home.

They were selfish and clueless. Yes, maybe my dad would have been a mean drunk even if his parents didnt force him to be a doctor -- but I suspect it had a lot to do with it.

If you force your child to spend most of their waking hours doing something they hate and are ill-suited for, you are being selfish and self-centered. ANd kind of immature.



"Forcing" or more accurately willing to fund a practical degree is not the same as requiring your kid to go into a specific field. I plan on telling my kids that I will only pay for a degree that has an actual job that can be done with a B.S. I'm not paying for a degree where someone would ask"What are you going to do with that?" My kids can major in STEM, Business, Elementary Education, whatever as long as there is a job that is associated with the degree. That is far different than telling your kid that they can only be a doctor or a lawyer.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 10:55     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
No, it reduces the problem to a single, meaningless dimension and claims victory.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 10:45     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Anonymous wrote:Some of it is a thinking problem; some of it is a writing problem. Math, even well taught and well understood (which is probably the exception rather than the rule in the US), doesn't teach all of the relevant thinking skills and it doesn't teach any of the relevant writing skills.


Sure, but basic math helps identify the fallacy in your argument.

10 is less than 20, but the heck more than 2.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2016 10:42     Subject: Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts
Some of it is a thinking problem; some of it is a writing problem. Math, even well taught and well understood (which is probably the exception rather than the rule in the US), doesn't teach all of the relevant thinking skills and it doesn't teach any of the relevant writing skills.