Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 15:37     Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
I was in agreement with you until here. I'm Jewish, I have made no effort whatsoever, and my kids have turned out to be atheists and are pretty into being atheists at an early age. Of course, like everything else, it is going to depend largely on the friends that kids associate with. I don't think OP should send her kids to the camp, but no need to overgeneralize.

This is me you're quoting up above and I probably wasn't being clear. I didn't mean that the kids turn out Christian in the sense that they're believers. I meant they turn out "Christian" in the sense that they have the same mainstream cultural identity as the rest of the country. They don't learn Jewish traditions, they don't care about them particularly, they don't identify as Jewish -- even as Jewish atheists.


Ok, that makes more sense, to a degree. I guess I don't feel like a lack of Jewish cultural identity is the same as a Christian cultural identity, but that may be in part an effect of living in an urban area with a lot of cultural and religious diversity.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 15:24     Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
My parents often take my nephews for a few weeks in the summer. The first thing they do is sign them up for camp in the mornings to entertain them - they choose the one that is easiest, closest, and least expensive to them. I bet they were at church and someone said there was a bible camp that week and it was cheap and they thought - ding ding ding cheap babysitting help. the religious thing is an issue - but they could have not told you and send them instead - maybe they don't think of it as being super religious. Go enjoy your trip - explain to your children to just have fun and ignore the religious side - plus hey they'll have less time with your in-laws to try to corrupt their minds.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 13:30     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Good grief, people, it's not that complicated!! We just need a little time to ourselves to regroup and recharge while we watch the grandmonsters and thought the kids might feel the same way. Ya know, some time with their peers instead of the old farts.

Don't know any kids and this seemed like an easy solution. We proudly told the parents our plan. and they went ape shit about disrespect and boundaries.
Fine, cancel your trip, you show us who's boss. No skin off our asses!
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 13:22     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
I agree with you that it was wrong of her to sign them up for that camp, but the fact that she told you she had done so leads me to believe that she is clueless and thoughtless rather than affirmatively trying to undermine you. I would have talked about it with her and told her that they couldn't attend and you would help find another half day camp. If she persisted, that would be the time to cancel the trip.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 13:11     Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
I think a family is made up of all generations and not just the will of the nuclear family. Like it or not, your husband's family is Christian and you are denying them the power to choose for themselves and learning about their ( not your) heritage. I find that really sad for your kids.


Don't you get it? The in laws are undermining BOTH parents regarding a fundamental choice they have made about their lives and their children's lives. OP's husband's family can continue to be Christian, but they should respect OP and her husband's decision that their family will be Jewish. And yes, that is the will of the nuclear family. Jews don't send their kids to Bible camp.

While many people may change religions when they are adults, most children don't choose new religions for themselves while they are children. Educating children about their religion is generally a parental prerogative.

And, as others have observed, there is a long history around the world and throughout history of 'educating' Jews about Christianity. Doesn't usually go so well for the Jews.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 12:46     Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
I have a question for you, OP

Do you want your kids to have any relationship at all with their grandparents? From your actions it seems like that is a big no. How will your kids feel in the future if they have had no contact with their grandparents? There are very few people in the world that automatically thinks your kids are the best and love them no matter what. I get why you were upset but, at least they told you of the plan. They could have just had the kids and either told them not to tell you or have them tell you after the week is over and you couldn't have done anything to change it.

I think a family is made up of all generations and not just the will of the nuclear family. Like it or not, your husband's family is Christian and you are denying them the power to choose for themselves and learning about their ( not your) heritage. I find that really sad for your kids.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 12:40     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My in laws agreed months ago to take our 6 and 8 year old for the next week while my husband get a week of vacation to celebrate our 10th anniversary. Long-standing issue that I am Jewish and we are raising our children Jewish, husband is totally onboard and has made that clear to his folks many times. So we call about dropping them off tonight and MIL casually mentions she signed them up for half day Bible camp at her church all week! I was speechless, literally handed the phone to DH and walked away. I think we need to cancel the trip tonight, I can't imagine how she thought this was ok. Where do I even go from here?


Cancel your trip?????

UN-FUCKING-CLENCH, lady! Your kids aren't going to miraculously become Christian because they're playing games and singing Jesus songs at camp. Break it down: you're looking to cancel the trip because you're not in control and you think your MIL is crossing boundaries. You can deal with the boundary crossing in an adult way without having a temper tantrum. You Jews, man...


Lunatic. Racist lunatic.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 12:25     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:The problem is that there is a good chance the children will be told they are going to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. That is not cultural education, that is coercion.


I attended a moderate Protestant church for 20 years and never, ever heard this. In fact, I don't remember the word "hell" ever being used.

As many PP's have said, a great deal depends on the flavor of Christianity involved here.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 11:22     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:My in laws agreed months ago to take our 6 and 8 year old for the next week while my husband get a week of vacation to celebrate our 10th anniversary. Long-standing issue that I am Jewish and we are raising our children Jewish, husband is totally onboard and has made that clear to his folks many times. So we call about dropping them off tonight and MIL casually mentions she signed them up for half day Bible camp at her church all week! I was speechless, literally handed the phone to DH and walked away. I think we need to cancel the trip tonight, I can't imagine how she thought this was ok. Where do I even go from here?


Cancel your trip?????

UN-FUCKING-CLENCH, lady! Your kids aren't going to miraculously become Christian because they're playing games and singing Jesus songs at camp. Break it down: you're looking to cancel the trip because you're not in control and you think your MIL is crossing boundaries. You can deal with the boundary crossing in an adult way without having a temper tantrum. You Jews, man...
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 11:18     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
I was raised evangelical, and was involved in many a VBS as a camper and then a teacher/counselor. Most involved snacks, songs, crafts, and games. Most also involved an "altar call" daily to "invite Jesus into your heart as Lord and Savior." Also lots of pressure to invite friends so that they could come and get saved.

I've been Episcopalian for about ten years now, and the VBS is more like what many of your are familiar with: snack/songs/games/crafts without the proselytizing. But the type of church matters. Boy howdy, does it matter. I would never send my being-raised-Christian kid to an evangelical church's VBS. And we are deeply religious.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 10:53     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:Think of the kids! Bible camp sucks!
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 10:07     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't send them, no matter what the particular vacation bible school is like, just because they are so young and it will be confusing for them. Our family is atheist, but my MIL sent my son to vacation bible school when he visited her for a week this summer. I thought it would be ok because it really was mostly crafts, songs, etc. But afterwards, DS, who is almost 8, was explaining to me how Noah lived for almost 950 years, and it was obvious he believed it was true. If DS wanted to become religious, that's actually totally fine by me, but he insists that he doesn't believe in God, yet still believes in the story of Noah and the ark.

I was raised Jewish and I went to a fairly liberal Hebrew school for many years. I was also taught that Noah lived to be 950 and that Sarah gave birth to Isaac in her 90s. In fact, I was taught the entire Old Testament as the absolute truth and I even believed it until I was 9 or 10. After that, I came to my senses and realized the whole thing is fiction, every last word. I am a proud atheist now and there is no way I can teach the bible to my kids as if it were the truth. I am happy to share the stories as stories, not gospel, especially since there are so many literary references to the bible. However, I stand firm on anyone trying to teach my children that the bible is the truth. It's not.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 10:04     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:Disrespecting parent wishes - - that is what this is people.

Religion, the specifics, can be debated. But the point is ILs are WAY out of line disrespecting the parents.


This. Seriously, I don't understand how people are missing this point.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 09:53     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:You have a few weeks worth of childcare and grandma wants the mornings to rest and get things done and so took it upon herself to find, register and pay for half day camp that happens to be at a church and your bitching about it? I bet you preach tolerance all the time don't you but five days of limited exposure and your flipping out. Do you even know what happen at Bible School? They don't sit around reading text from the New Testament. They will sing this little light of mine, make crafts, play games and eat a snack.


Why bother chiming in when you don't even read the thread? Lazy fuck.
Anonymous
Post 08/01/2016 09:52     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op if your in laws go to a mega bible church than you knew that this was bound to happen at some point. My mother has caught on that I don't buy it either (wasp here but with hard core mom)and she proselytizes a bit to my kids each time we visit and I am sure prays for us every day. . I butt in when it gets too much but have used it as an opportunity to talk about the social psychology and near universality of religion of all stripes. My kids see this religion as part of grandma but they know that others have different religions and some have none and that whatever speaks to them as they grow up is fine.


I can understand why the prostelyzing bothers you, but what is wrong with her praying for you everyday? If you don't believe in God, it hardly hurts you or your kids if she prays for you. Would you be this upset if she was New Agey and said she was burning herbs for you and consulting tarot cards. I don't believe in those things, but it doesn't harm me if someone feels like they are doing it on my behalf. What matters is that they care, right?


Not PP, but that praying is probably "Please God let my heathen child see the light and become Christian and bring her children to Christianity." It's a daily exercise in thinking about what your daughter is doing wrong with her life and her parenting. It doesn't hurt you, but it's sure as fuck annoying.


NP. I'd be annoyed too. So condescending.