Anonymous
Post 07/08/2016 11:26     Subject: South Arlington schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seems like a chicken and egg problem. If more middle class families sent their kids to S. Arlington schools, there would be a larger cohort of equivalent peers (still a need for differentiation, but better balanced). We could maybe see some of the middling schools move in the direction of Patrick Henry.

Yet as it stands now, given the delta in quality, parents seem to (understandably) steer away from many of the S. Arlington schools in favor of alternatives.

Short of extensive bussing (which we all know is a no-go), is there a way of resolving this problem? The county helped create this mess. Is there a way the county can step in and help fix it?

I am an optimist at heart, and really want to believe that the schools can improve.



This is going to be controversial and I'm gonna get flamed for this...


Why not school within a school for middle class English speakers? Give a reading assessment and place those kids in one class. Give the parents an assurance their kid won't be one of 5 that is each put in a different class.


I think that's kind of what happens in practice with pullout with the RTGs--not that the kids are necessarily "gifted," but they end up getting pulled into a group outside of their classes. But that's not really a solution to the overall issue. There is just a difference between being in a classroom where everyone is used to being around books, going to the library, and reading with their parents and being in a classroom where learning to read is like any other thing you do at school. By the older grades, the kids get it--you see them walking around with books and talking about books. But not at the younger grades...although you do see that at north Arlington schools (6 and 7 year olds talking about their favorite authors, reading chapter books, navigating the library by themselves, etc.)
Anonymous
Post 07/08/2016 10:34     Subject: South Arlington schools
Anonymous wrote:Seems like a chicken and egg problem. If more middle class families sent their kids to S. Arlington schools, there would be a larger cohort of equivalent peers (still a need for differentiation, but better balanced). We could maybe see some of the middling schools move in the direction of Patrick Henry.

Yet as it stands now, given the delta in quality, parents seem to (understandably) steer away from many of the S. Arlington schools in favor of alternatives.

Short of extensive bussing (which we all know is a no-go), is there a way of resolving this problem? The county helped create this mess. Is there a way the county can step in and help fix it?

I am an optimist at heart, and really want to believe that the schools can improve.



This is going to be controversial and I'm gonna get flamed for this...


Why not school within a school for middle class English speakers? Give a reading assessment and place those kids in one class. Give the parents an assurance their kid won't be one of 5 that is each put in a different class.
Anonymous
Post 07/08/2016 10:04     Subject: South Arlington schools
Seems like a chicken and egg problem. If more middle class families sent their kids to S. Arlington schools, there would be a larger cohort of equivalent peers (still a need for differentiation, but better balanced). We could maybe see some of the middling schools move in the direction of Patrick Henry.

Yet as it stands now, given the delta in quality, parents seem to (understandably) steer away from many of the S. Arlington schools in favor of alternatives.

Short of extensive bussing (which we all know is a no-go), is there a way of resolving this problem? The county helped create this mess. Is there a way the county can step in and help fix it?

I am an optimist at heart, and really want to believe that the schools can improve.
Anonymous
Post 07/08/2016 09:32     Subject: South Arlington schools
Yes. If you are pushy and vigilant (and PRESENT in the classroom as much as you can to aid your vigilance), you can certainly get your child what they need in math & reading in a mediocre S. Arl. elementary. The tradeoff is all the places that they just don't and won't differentiate--art, music, social studies, science. They seem (based on my limited experience in 2 schools) to operate at a much higher level in the more affluent N. Arl. schools.
Anonymous
Post 07/08/2016 09:25     Subject: South Arlington schools
I guess I can deal with being pushy and vigilant for a couple of years. Better than moving.
Anonymous
Post 07/08/2016 08:40     Subject: South Arlington schools
Yes. I used to be smug too about being in S. Arlington and being above all the Type A N. Arlington parents. Then my son got to third grade. And I was weary of needing to meet with teachers and principal each year to ask for differentiated instruction, and having to check in again mid year to ensure that it was still happening. And my kids are not geniuses. Moved to a N. Arl school, presto, no need for meetings on either of my kids. Peer groups of 5-6 (or MORE) at their reading and math levels. Totally different experience.
Anonymous
Post 07/08/2016 06:20     Subject: South Arlington schools
Anonymous wrote:Why were you smug?


For being more open-minded than all the pearl-clutching people you see on these threads on the real estate threads. And I still don't thin he was *harmed*educationally. I just appreciate more the differences among the schools and am annoyed that we couldn't totally make up for all of that at home.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2016 23:41     Subject: South Arlington schools
Why were you smug?
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2016 20:57     Subject: Re:South Arlington schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree that schools with high levels of poverty have more difficulties.
Where I disagree is the idea that AH contributes to this problem- I think that AH improves school outcomes.

Could you distribute AH throughout the county? I think Arl has tried pretty hard to do this. Yes- it does rely on converting cheap market rate AH to CAF's- but again I think this improves school outcomes- not the opposite.

Should you do away with neighborhood schools in order to even out FARMS rates at various different schools? I think people can legitimately disagree about this one. I can see both sides of the argument.

I think the more interesting and realistic discussion is about whether or not school outcomes are really worse for the nonFARMS kids in predominantly FARMS schools. Are they getting a lesser education than their income peers in less significantly FARMS schools?


We stuck with it but I think my kid got a lesser education in K, 1st, and 2nd than he would have in a north Arlington school. He got a lot of pull out from the RTG starting the second week of kindergarten but it didn't change the fact that he came into school being able to read and do math and literally no other kid in his class could, and he stayed ahead of them for a couple of years. If he had been average in his class, he would have done different things, more things, with his class. At the end of the day, I don't know that it is going to make a material difference in, say, his SAT scores. But he could have had a richer educational experience if he hadn't been in a class where half of the kids came in speaking little or no English (and not just Spanish at home--lots of different languages, which is its own challenge) and almost none came in with any type of prior schooling. I'm not saying they had behavioral problems or their parents weren't committed to their educations or anything like that. But there's no question it was not the experience other kids have, and if I had the chance to do it over I don't know if I would have chosen to live in south Arlington (and yes, it was a choice.)


DS goes to school in North Arlington. In K there were 6 of them in the top reading group. 5 in the lowest (as in struggling with the alphabet) so that leaves 14 in the middle. Please don't think all kids in N. Arlington are on reading and Math prodigies.


I don't think that but you are actually demonstrating my point. What you're describing sounds like what I remember from when I was in first grade. We had three reading groups--the kids who could read by themselves, the kids who could read with help, and the kids who were just starting. That's all I would want--some reasonable peer groups, so my son didn't have to spend the first two years of school reading by himself. There were literally two kids in his K class who could read and then 17 or 18 who were just starting and none in the middle. There weren't enough kids for reading groups--the whole class was basically one group, and my kid was excluded. (I don't think his experience was atypical, most of the K classes at his school looked like his.) The kids all even out within a few years, but its not the K and 1st experience I wish my son had had, and I don't fault other people for seeking something different for their kids even though at the time I was pretty smug about it.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2016 20:00     Subject: Re:South Arlington schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree that schools with high levels of poverty have more difficulties.
Where I disagree is the idea that AH contributes to this problem- I think that AH improves school outcomes.

Could you distribute AH throughout the county? I think Arl has tried pretty hard to do this. Yes- it does rely on converting cheap market rate AH to CAF's- but again I think this improves school outcomes- not the opposite.

Should you do away with neighborhood schools in order to even out FARMS rates at various different schools? I think people can legitimately disagree about this one. I can see both sides of the argument.

I think the more interesting and realistic discussion is about whether or not school outcomes are really worse for the nonFARMS kids in predominantly FARMS schools. Are they getting a lesser education than their income peers in less significantly FARMS schools?


We stuck with it but I think my kid got a lesser education in K, 1st, and 2nd than he would have in a north Arlington school. He got a lot of pull out from the RTG starting the second week of kindergarten but it didn't change the fact that he came into school being able to read and do math and literally no other kid in his class could, and he stayed ahead of them for a couple of years. If he had been average in his class, he would have done different things, more things, with his class. At the end of the day, I don't know that it is going to make a material difference in, say, his SAT scores. But he could have had a richer educational experience if he hadn't been in a class where half of the kids came in speaking little or no English (and not just Spanish at home--lots of different languages, which is its own challenge) and almost none came in with any type of prior schooling. I'm not saying they had behavioral problems or their parents weren't committed to their educations or anything like that. But there's no question it was not the experience other kids have, and if I had the chance to do it over I don't know if I would have chosen to live in south Arlington (and yes, it was a choice.)


DS goes to school in North Arlington. In K there were 6 of them in the top reading group. 5 in the lowest (as in struggling with the alphabet) so that leaves 14 in the middle. Please don't think all kids in N. Arlington are on reading and Math prodigies.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2016 19:35     Subject: South Arlington schools
Anonymous wrote:Just saw two trailers being hauled through south Arlington I wonder where they will end up?
What south Arlington schools have trailers?


I drove past Patrick Henry this afternoon, and I saw four brand new trailers on the school field.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2016 14:07     Subject: South Arlington schools
Anonymous wrote:Just saw two trailers being hauled through south Arlington I wonder where they will end up?
What south Arlington schools have trailers?


I think most have at least one. Of the elementary schools I know I have seen them at Abingdon, Claremont, Barcroft, Campbell, Henry (I don't know how the numbers are counted--is each individual trailer the number, because some can have 2 classrooms I think?). Oakridge must have several given that is has almost 800 students and there is no way that the school was built to hold that many kids. Not sure about numbers, but overcrowding is happening here, too, just lagging the north by a couple years. Hasn't hit middle school or high school (yet).
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2016 12:14     Subject: South Arlington schools
Just saw two trailers being hauled through south Arlington I wonder where they will end up?
What south Arlington schools have trailers?
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2016 17:49     Subject: South Arlington schools
so let's just add more high rise CAF buildings alongside the 1000's of market rate units already there?
So stupid. The non profits can't build if the county doesn't grant them the loan. It's time for Arlington to stop giving them the means to create all of this chaos. Those schools will likely never recover at this rate. It's shameful what the county has done.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2016 17:29     Subject: Re:South Arlington schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

APS could draw boundaries differently so that there wasn't so much rental housing concentrated into certain schools. It is hard on kids when their friends leave after a year every single year, or every other year. It's hard to get parents involved when, in addition to language and transportation barriers, they aren't necessarily going to live in the neighborhood or even the county long-term. Its hard for the school to "balance" classes when they don't know the strengths and weaknesses of half the kids who are going to show up each year.

Having trouble setting up playdates is a symptom, not a root cause. The school system needs to address the root cause, which is having segregated schools--including segregation by housing type, not just by race and socioeconomic status, although there are correlations among all those things in Arlington.


I think you are using rental housing as a (fair) proxy for a more transient population than home ownership.
One of the great things about AH is that it addresses this problem. If you are in a CAF you are much less likely to move than if you are in a market affordable unit.


Great, so will you advocate for the demolition of Barcroft apts? That place is a shithole/eyesore. They can put in lovely new buildings with mixed income. Deal?
Because as of now they are adding 100% CAFS to areas where transient poor populations are concentrated. Your hypothetical arguments fail address the reality of the south Arlington situation.


The non-profits prefer to do 100% committed affordable developments--it has to do with the structure under which they operate. Arlington Mill was supposed to be mixed income, but the numbers didn't work out. The private sector tends to do more mixed income in Arlington--like the development at the old Mazda dealership on N Glebe Rd which includes a fair number of committed affordable apartments.