Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people on this thread have collectively become unhinged.

Agreed. I am not getting the point.

One person here angered a lot of other people by claiming that her child has the unique perfect disability -- it is the only one that disappears completely by a certain age and is completely unrelated to any other problem while all other special needs children are "nightmares," who will have problems for the rest of their lives. She apparently has a history of doing this, so it is an ongoing battle. It is probably not worth it to argue with this person, but when you raise strong feelings about people's children, they will fight back. It's also not worth it to participate in this thread if you are not already angry.

Anonymous wrote:The people on this thread have collectively become unhinged.

Agreed. I am not getting the point.

The people on this thread have collectively become unhinged.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

Would it help you to understand if you thought of ASD as MERLD+? Kids with ASD frequently have receptive and expressive language deficits, just like kids with MERLD. Kids with ASD also have social skills issues and repetitive behaviors/restricted interests. It's language issues plus the other two things.

BTW, it is a myth that kids with ASD don't understand kindness and don't have empathy. They usually have both. They aren't sociopaths. They often have problems perceiving emotions in others correctly. They often have difficulty reading facial expressions and body language. When they learn to do that, they have the same amount of empathy as kids who don't have an ASD. They may also have to be taught explicitly how to express that empathy and how to act kindly, but it isn't from lacking empathy.

ASD is different. It is not MERLD and it is not MERLD+. ASD is about social communication, which is part of language but very different than expressive and receptive issues. Of course ASD kids are not sociopaths. However, some have pragmatic issues, that MERLD kids do not. They are very different language based issues and very different overall diagnosis. Why the need to say that they are basically the same. They are not even close.

This is so not true. MERLD and other language disorders are part of the broad autism phenotype. They share the same genetic causes.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131030092904.htm

That is not at ALL what that link says. Sorry.

Yeah it does. MERLD is a type of Specific Language Impairment.

No, it doesn't. It says "The genetic variations appear to be relevant to both disorders and may indicate a greater level of genetic predisposition for impairments in language ability among individuals with and without ASD in those families." That says nothing at all about a "broad autism phenotype" that you have now enlarged to include MERLD and all language delays. It also says nothign about a "genetic cause".

Oh my. This is very sad. You may have Dunning-Kruger syndrome. Unfortunately, there is no treatment, although there are rare cases of spontaneous remission. I can only hope that happens to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

Would it help you to understand if you thought of ASD as MERLD+? Kids with ASD frequently have receptive and expressive language deficits, just like kids with MERLD. Kids with ASD also have social skills issues and repetitive behaviors/restricted interests. It's language issues plus the other two things.

BTW, it is a myth that kids with ASD don't understand kindness and don't have empathy. They usually have both. They aren't sociopaths. They often have problems perceiving emotions in others correctly. They often have difficulty reading facial expressions and body language. When they learn to do that, they have the same amount of empathy as kids who don't have an ASD. They may also have to be taught explicitly how to express that empathy and how to act kindly, but it isn't from lacking empathy.

ASD is different. It is not MERLD and it is not MERLD+. ASD is about social communication, which is part of language but very different than expressive and receptive issues. Of course ASD kids are not sociopaths. However, some have pragmatic issues, that MERLD kids do not. They are very different language based issues and very different overall diagnosis. Why the need to say that they are basically the same. They are not even close.

This is so not true. MERLD and other language disorders are part of the broad autism phenotype. They share the same genetic causes.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131030092904.htm

That is not at ALL what that link says. Sorry.

Yeah it does. MERLD is a type of Specific Language Impairment.

No, it doesn't. It says "The genetic variations appear to be relevant to both disorders and may indicate a greater level of genetic predisposition for impairments in language ability among individuals with and without ASD in those families." That says nothing at all about a "broad autism phenotype" that you have now enlarged to include MERLD and all language delays. It also says nothign about a "genetic cause".

Having a kid diagnosed with MERLD at a young age and at KKI, yes, there may be differences with kids diagnosed on the spectrum, but the point is MOOT.

Not only is MERLD no longer in the DSM, but early treatments look almost identical for kids diagnosed on the spectrum. Our kids (kids with MELRD, ASD, MS, NVLD, ADHD, Tourettes, CP, selective mutism, rare genetic disorders like Turners Williams, or Lowe's Syndrome, or a plethora of undiagnosable birth defects) have done the same speech therapists, language based preschools, summer camps, and even SN schools.

Some kids with MERLD struggle later on; some kids with ASD struggle later on. Some kids with any of the above struggle later on. If your kid "outgrew" MERLD, then your kid was simply a late talker and didn't actually have MERLD. So go away. For the rest of us, let's embrace the diversity of our deficits. We still continue to struggle.

For those of you still struggling emotionally (or avoiding) the autism label on your IEP--realize that this is not a medical diagnosis, but a legislative attempt to allow access to education. The DSM is more regularly updated (based on research) than the legislative laws are. So yes, your snowflake may not fit perfectly into the the legislated designations written in the 1970s: (Autism, Blindness, Deafness, Emotional Disturbance, Hearing Impairment, Intellectual Disability, Multiple Disabilities, Orthopedic Impairment, Other Health Impaired, Specific Learning Disability, Speech or Language Impairment, Traumatic Brain Injury, Visual Impairment), but so what.

Get over it. The point of legislation to make education accessible was to prevent institutionalization. Institutionalization has been the nightmare. People with developmental disabilities, unplanned pregnancies, mental health, substance abuse, physical handicaps, all lumped into non-desirable and have been at one point or another institutionalized. The US has as a shameful history as Nazi Germany. So please, please, please, lets do the best for vulnerable populations. So for the OP and all the other it's MERLD-not-ASD obsessed posters, it really doesn't matter. The fact that your kid grew out of or caught up to is irrelevant. Your experience is irrelevant. Early intervention helps everyone--no mater their genetic predisposition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

Would it help you to understand if you thought of ASD as MERLD+? Kids with ASD frequently have receptive and expressive language deficits, just like kids with MERLD. Kids with ASD also have social skills issues and repetitive behaviors/restricted interests. It's language issues plus the other two things.

BTW, it is a myth that kids with ASD don't understand kindness and don't have empathy. They usually have both. They aren't sociopaths. They often have problems perceiving emotions in others correctly. They often have difficulty reading facial expressions and body language. When they learn to do that, they have the same amount of empathy as kids who don't have an ASD. They may also have to be taught explicitly how to express that empathy and how to act kindly, but it isn't from lacking empathy.

ASD is different. It is not MERLD and it is not MERLD+. ASD is about social communication, which is part of language but very different than expressive and receptive issues. Of course ASD kids are not sociopaths. However, some have pragmatic issues, that MERLD kids do not. They are very different language based issues and very different overall diagnosis. Why the need to say that they are basically the same. They are not even close.

This is so not true. MERLD and other language disorders are part of the broad autism phenotype. They share the same genetic causes.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131030092904.htm

That is not at ALL what that link says. Sorry.

Yeah it does. MERLD is a type of Specific Language Impairment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

Would it help you to understand if you thought of ASD as MERLD+? Kids with ASD frequently have receptive and expressive language deficits, just like kids with MERLD. Kids with ASD also have social skills issues and repetitive behaviors/restricted interests. It's language issues plus the other two things.

BTW, it is a myth that kids with ASD don't understand kindness and don't have empathy. They usually have both. They aren't sociopaths. They often have problems perceiving emotions in others correctly. They often have difficulty reading facial expressions and body language. When they learn to do that, they have the same amount of empathy as kids who don't have an ASD. They may also have to be taught explicitly how to express that empathy and how to act kindly, but it isn't from lacking empathy.

ASD is different. It is not MERLD and it is not MERLD+. ASD is about social communication, which is part of language but very different than expressive and receptive issues. Of course ASD kids are not sociopaths. However, some have pragmatic issues, that MERLD kids do not. They are very different language based issues and very different overall diagnosis. Why the need to say that they are basically the same. They are not even close.

This is so not true. MERLD and other language disorders are part of the broad autism phenotype. They share the same genetic causes.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131030092904.htm

That is not at ALL what that link says. Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

Would it help you to understand if you thought of ASD as MERLD+? Kids with ASD frequently have receptive and expressive language deficits, just like kids with MERLD. Kids with ASD also have social skills issues and repetitive behaviors/restricted interests. It's language issues plus the other two things.

BTW, it is a myth that kids with ASD don't understand kindness and don't have empathy. They usually have both. They aren't sociopaths. They often have problems perceiving emotions in others correctly. They often have difficulty reading facial expressions and body language. When they learn to do that, they have the same amount of empathy as kids who don't have an ASD. They may also have to be taught explicitly how to express that empathy and how to act kindly, but it isn't from lacking empathy.

ASD is different. It is not MERLD and it is not MERLD+. ASD is about social communication, which is part of language but very different than expressive and receptive issues. Of course ASD kids are not sociopaths. However, some have pragmatic issues, that MERLD kids do not. They are very different language based issues and very different overall diagnosis. Why the need to say that they are basically the same. They are not even close.

This is so not true. MERLD and other language disorders are part of the broad autism phenotype. They share the same genetic causes.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131030092904.htm

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

Would it help you to understand if you thought of ASD as MERLD+? Kids with ASD frequently have receptive and expressive language deficits, just like kids with MERLD. Kids with ASD also have social skills issues and repetitive behaviors/restricted interests. It's language issues plus the other two things.

BTW, it is a myth that kids with ASD don't understand kindness and don't have empathy. They usually have both. They aren't sociopaths. They often have problems perceiving emotions in others correctly. They often have difficulty reading facial expressions and body language. When they learn to do that, they have the same amount of empathy as kids who don't have an ASD. They may also have to be taught explicitly how to express that empathy and how to act kindly, but it isn't from lacking empathy.

ASD is different. It is not MERLD and it is not MERLD+. ASD is about social communication, which is part of language but very different than expressive and receptive issues. Of course ASD kids are not sociopaths. However, some have pragmatic issues, that MERLD kids do not. They are very different language based issues and very different overall diagnosis. Why the need to say that they are basically the same. They are not even close.

Then why point out that your kid understand kindness and empathy? Have you read any forums for adults with Aspergers. If anything, they have more empathy than NTs. I've never seen this kind of stupid discussion on an Asperger board. I've never seen an Asperger adult call someone else's child a "nightmare." Talk about understanding empathy!

Anonymous wrote:

That isn't the point of the thread. Of course and ASD child can have receptive and expressive issues, BUT, it is not the point at all. This is about MERLD, not ASD, not rants about how the outcome is very poor for MERLD kids, not the point that some MERLD kids have learning and other issues... you are missing the POINT.

This thread started with the simple observation that the term MERLD is found in ICD-10 and that therefore it is an official diagnosis that can be used by professionals to communicate with parents and other professionals. I don't know why that would be controversial, but apparently it is.

We have wandered far away from that since then, so then there really is no point to thread since then. However, you have said that the MERLD diagnosis excludes ASD and quoted an old definition to back up your point. Under the current definition, you can have both. You should at least acknowledge that and use the current definition, not the old one which was written in 1994.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

Would it help you to understand if you thought of ASD as MERLD+? Kids with ASD frequently have receptive and expressive language deficits, just like kids with MERLD. Kids with ASD also have social skills issues and repetitive behaviors/restricted interests. It's language issues plus the other two things.

BTW, it is a myth that kids with ASD don't understand kindness and don't have empathy. They usually have both. They aren't sociopaths. They often have problems perceiving emotions in others correctly. They often have difficulty reading facial expressions and body language. When they learn to do that, they have the same amount of empathy as kids who don't have an ASD. They may also have to be taught explicitly how to express that empathy and how to act kindly, but it isn't from lacking empathy.

ASD is different. It is not MERLD and it is not MERLD+. ASD is about social communication, which is part of language but very different than expressive and receptive issues. Of course ASD kids are not sociopaths. However, some have pragmatic issues, that MERLD kids do not. They are very different language based issues and very different overall diagnosis. Why the need to say that they are basically the same. They are not even close.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

If they are THAT different, then there is no reason you can't have both. It is like saying you can't have MERLD and diabetes. Please go look up the definition of "comorbid."

And don't quote that definition from DSM-IV on me. It is based on 20-year old outdated research. Use the current definition of MERLD, now called Language Disorder in DSM-V.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

If they are THAT different, then there is no reason you can't have both. It is like saying you can't have MERLD and diabetes. Please go look up the definition of "comorbid."

That isn't the point of the thread. Of course and ASD child can have receptive and expressive issues, BUT, it is not the point at all. This is about MERLD, not ASD, not rants about how the outcome is very poor for MERLD kids, not the point that some MERLD kids have learning and other issues... you are missing the POINT.

Anonymous wrote:

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

If they are THAT different, then there is no reason you can't have both. It is like saying you can't have MERLD and diabetes. Please go look up the definition of "comorbid."