Anonymous wrote:^ HELLOOOOOO Cognitive dissonance there? Justice DID cite the charges and Gibson DID acknowledge wrongdoing and DID agree to change its ways.

That totally goes against your narrative that it was baseless and that Gibson did no wrong and that Gibson "got its wood back" and that Gibson was allowed to go on with its business just as before.

Clearly none of that is the case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm very familiar with thus case and the CEOs trust me, what the press says and what happened is not congruent. Everyone knows he was singled out, targeted, and hung out to dry.

Well, if "everyone" knows it, that settles it. Certainly, we should trust "everyone" rather than what we read in the press.

BTW, I am also very familiar with the case. I visited the Memphis plant a few days before it was raided. I own two Gibson guitars and followed the case very closely. The violations discovered in the second round of raids were clearly justified by the false paperwork used to import the wood. It turned out that the violations were not that severe and that the Indian government probably didn't care in the first place. That is probably why the case was settled favorably to Gibson.

Henry Juszkiewicz made a huge mistake by running to the right-wingers and acting like a victim of an over-zealous government. He alienated guitar players who care about the environment. In contrast, companies like Taylor and Martin who are much more forward thinking. That's why I bought a Taylor at that time.

Use your damn head. When you are raided by a SWAT team for freaking fingerboards - twice - it's not about wood. Bob Taylor himself told me that they get their wood the same way that Gibson does, and he didn't understand it. The Indian government disputes the 'false paperwork' and the government admits 'confusion'.

Yet it was only Gibson raided, and only Gibson that had to pay settle and be financially raped in order to get their wood back. There is no need to go into a guitar factory - twice - at gunpoint.

Gibson only alienated progressive guitar players who believe the media.

Bullshit. This extended video from Bob Taylor completely an thoroughly refutes your claim. They absolutely do not get their wood the same way.

The issue was not about harvesting. It was about finishing and unions. That is exactly what Bob explained to me. He was confident they'd get their wood back. They did.

The Feds could not prove their case. Period. End of. They had to give back all the wood. If there was a case against Gibson, they would still have the damn wood.


Kind of like Michael Brown. The [corrupt] justice department had to give up on that too. The fact is, we are living with a government out of control. The laws broken weren't even ours, and both Madagascar and India backed Gibson.

It's also no accident that Gibson is located in a Right to Work state...


"These raids were conducted due to the Lacey Act, which bans the importing of certain woods. The issue at hand was not that the wood was endangered or illegally harvested, but that it was not of the proper thickness that would have meant that some labor had been performed on it by workers in India and Madagascar. This was the law in Madagascar and India as a nod to the unions in those countries. Gibson, who hand-makes its guitars, cannot guarantee the craftsmanship of its products if a portion of the work is done outside their facilities.

What raised many eyebrows about this governmental action was that the countries involved, India and Madagascar, indicated that they were not interested in pursuing the matter when contacted by the Department of Justice. Also, even if Gibson had been guilty, this would have been a civil, not a criminal matter. Finally, this same kind of tonewood is used by other guitar makers such as CF Martin and Company and Fender. Those other companies were not raided.


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/02/what_gibson_guitars_did_with_the_wood_the_government_returned.html#ixzz3obFUySIM
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

More lies! They had to forfeit the ebony. http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/gibson-guitar-corp-agrees-resolve-investigation-lacey-act-violations

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL! Get these "Constitutional Conservatives" and libertarians away from their conservative blogs and their talk radio and their cozy little Glenn Beck bubble of delusion and out into the real world, and they get an instant smackdown.

Sorry, folks, but Glenn Beck and others of his ilk COUNT on you dupes to be uninformed and gullible. And it works every time.

So you can't really refute the facts. Got it. Otherwise you'd answer the question about how The Bern plans on getting Hollywood to pay up.

Plenty of ways you could do that, starting with severely restricting and penalizing offshoring of money and offering a grace period with an opportunity to repatriate offshore money - then you eliminate the gazillion loopholes that have been created in the tax code for the rich, et cetera. It's not like they are going to pack up and leave - Hollywood is here, and the market is here. Leaving would be cutting your nose off to spite your face. There's plenty of millions still to be made, no need to be greedy.

And frankly 99% of America doesn't give a shit and has zero sympathy if you think you have a hardship case because you only ended up with $60 million instead of $80 million.

But that said, frankly I'm a lot more concerned with hedge fund traders than I am with Hollywood - at least the guys in Hollywood CREATE something useful and interesting for the world, as opposed to just getting rich via smoke and mirrors, market manipulation and insanity like putting institutional retirement funds at risk. Again, we still need to go after the Wall Street assholes that crashed the economy in 2008. They are still responsible for 13 trillion in personal wealth that went up in smoke due to their deranged gambling with banks and mortgages. It's not too much to expect them to make good on restoring some of that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL! Get these "Constitutional Conservatives" and libertarians away from their conservative blogs and their talk radio and their cozy little Glenn Beck bubble of delusion and out into the real world, and they get an instant smackdown.

Sorry, folks, but Glenn Beck and others of his ilk COUNT on you dupes to be uninformed and gullible. And it works every time.

So you can't really refute the facts. Got it. Otherwise you'd answer the question about how The Bern plans on getting Hollywood to pay up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, find me even ONE example in history of a nation that worked without any government.

Just one.

PROVE to me that you're right.

Again, THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF HISTORY, HUMAN NATURE, COMMON SENSE and CRITICAL THINKING all prove that I am the one who is right.

You'll have to ask an actual libertarian. I'm a Constitutional conservative and I do believe that means I believe in a limited government. A Constitutional Republic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A little history:

It's true that Somalia doesn't have "a" government only because it has many of governments.

In 1991 the Somali government officially recognized by other ruling class governments was run out of business following a civil war. It had been a vicious military dictatorship controlled by the Somali Revolutionary Socialist Party. (Sorry socialism lovers, Somalia is a failed socialist state.)

The wannabe United Nations World Government tried twice to forcibly impose ruling class governments on Somalia, first in 2000 and again in 2012. The first failed miserably and the second is still failing.

During that entire time Somalia has been run by the "unrecognized" break-away nation of Somaliland and by "More than 20 separate new ministates," clan enclaves and cantons.

Whether "unrecognized" or run by warlords, these governments operate just as every other government in the world operates; they exist by collecting money through coercion, intimidation and fraud.

They differ only in style.

Some set up roadblocks and charge tolls, just like small towns in America that support themselves with speed traps on major highways.

Some hijack ships and turn the plunder and kidnapped crews into ransom cash, much as DEA SWAT teams seize innocent people's houses, cars, boats and cash under ruling class "confiscation laws."

There are other de facto governments in Somalia.

Still other warlord governments received weapons and money from the CIA to "fight al-Qaida," just like so many other "recognized" governments.

In other words, Somalia is crawling with governments.

LMAO! Since when are pirate crews and roving gangs of criminals "governments?" Only in the world of libertarian delusion does anyone refer to them as "governments" Only in the world of libertarian delusion does one refer to piracy on the high seas and armed robbery as "government taxation."

Sorry, but that is such a bunch of ludicrous spin... Laughing my ass off. Surely you must be trolling at this point because you CANNOT be serious!

Note the bolded. How are taxes collected by government here? At the point of a sword. Don't pay? Jail-time, leins, confiscation of property. How do you think "The Bern" will enforce his grand taxation plans?

Obamacare? Sold to the people on an admitted lie.

Coercion. Intimidation. Fraud.

LMAO again. The so-called "Constitutional Conservative" shows what a complete fraud he is by wanting to throw away that inconvenient little "taxing and spending" clause in the Constitution that gives the federal government legal power and authority to collect taxes.

Dude, have you actually ever even READ the Constitution?

Who said I want it thrown away? I don't want it ABUSED and used against the people. The larger government gets, the more powerful it gets, the more abusive it gets.

Can you do something besides assume?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm very familiar with thus case and the CEOs trust me, what the press says and what happened is not congruent. Everyone knows he was singled out, targeted, and hung out to dry.

Well, if "everyone" knows it, that settles it. Certainly, we should trust "everyone" rather than what we read in the press.

BTW, I am also very familiar with the case. I visited the Memphis plant a few days before it was raided. I own two Gibson guitars and followed the case very closely. The violations discovered in the second round of raids were clearly justified by the false paperwork used to import the wood. It turned out that the violations were not that severe and that the Indian government probably didn't care in the first place. That is probably why the case was settled favorably to Gibson.

Henry Juszkiewicz made a huge mistake by running to the right-wingers and acting like a victim of an over-zealous government. He alienated guitar players who care about the environment. In contrast, companies like Taylor and Martin who are much more forward thinking. That's why I bought a Taylor at that time.

Use your damn head. When you are raided by a SWAT team for freaking fingerboards - twice - it's not about wood. Bob Taylor himself told me that they get their wood the same way that Gibson does, and he didn't understand it. The Indian government disputes the 'false paperwork' and the government admits 'confusion'.

Yet it was only Gibson raided, and only Gibson that had to pay settle and be financially raped in order to get their wood back. There is no need to go into a guitar factory - twice - at gunpoint.

Gibson only alienated progressive guitar players who believe the media.

Bullshit. This extended video from Bob Taylor completely an thoroughly refutes your claim. They absolutely do not get their wood the same way.

The issue was not about harvesting. It was about finishing and unions. That is exactly what Bob explained to me. He was confident they'd get their wood back. They did.

The Feds could not prove their case. Period. End of. They had to give back all the wood. If there was a case against Gibson, they would still have the damn wood.


Kind of like Michael Brown. The [corrupt] justice department had to give up on that too. The fact is, we are living with a government out of control. The laws broken weren't even ours, and both Madagascar and India backed Gibson.

It's also no accident that Gibson is located in a Right to Work state...


"These raids were conducted due to the Lacey Act, which bans the importing of certain woods. The issue at hand was not that the wood was endangered or illegally harvested, but that it was not of the proper thickness that would have meant that some labor had been performed on it by workers in India and Madagascar. This was the law in Madagascar and India as a nod to the unions in those countries. Gibson, who hand-makes its guitars, cannot guarantee the craftsmanship of its products if a portion of the work is done outside their facilities.

What raised many eyebrows about this governmental action was that the countries involved, India and Madagascar, indicated that they were not interested in pursuing the matter when contacted by the Department of Justice. Also, even if Gibson had been guilty, this would have been a civil, not a criminal matter. Finally, this same kind of tonewood is used by other guitar makers such as CF Martin and Company and Fender. Those other companies were not raided.


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/02/what_gibson_guitars_did_with_the_wood_the_government_returned.html#ixzz3obFUySIM
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A little history:

It's true that Somalia doesn't have "a" government only because it has many of governments.

In 1991 the Somali government officially recognized by other ruling class governments was run out of business following a civil war. It had been a vicious military dictatorship controlled by the Somali Revolutionary Socialist Party. (Sorry socialism lovers, Somalia is a failed socialist state.)

The wannabe United Nations World Government tried twice to forcibly impose ruling class governments on Somalia, first in 2000 and again in 2012. The first failed miserably and the second is still failing.

During that entire time Somalia has been run by the "unrecognized" break-away nation of Somaliland and by "More than 20 separate new ministates," clan enclaves and cantons.

Whether "unrecognized" or run by warlords, these governments operate just as every other government in the world operates; they exist by collecting money through coercion, intimidation and fraud.

They differ only in style.

Some set up roadblocks and charge tolls, just like small towns in America that support themselves with speed traps on major highways.

Some hijack ships and turn the plunder and kidnapped crews into ransom cash, much as DEA SWAT teams seize innocent people's houses, cars, boats and cash under ruling class "confiscation laws."

There are other de facto governments in Somalia.

Still other warlord governments received weapons and money from the CIA to "fight al-Qaida," just like so many other "recognized" governments.

In other words, Somalia is crawling with governments.

LMAO! Since when are pirate crews and roving gangs of criminals "governments?" Only in the world of libertarian delusion does anyone refer to them as "governments" Only in the world of libertarian delusion does one refer to piracy on the high seas and armed robbery as "government taxation."

Sorry, but that is such a bunch of ludicrous spin... Laughing my ass off. Surely you must be trolling at this point because you CANNOT be serious!

Note the bolded. How are taxes collected by government here? At the point of a sword. Don't pay? Jail-time, leins, confiscation of property. How do you think "The Bern" will enforce his grand taxation plans?

Obamacare? Sold to the people on an admitted lie.

Coercion. Intimidation. Fraud.

LMAO again. The so-called "Constitutional Conservative" shows what a complete fraud he is by wanting to throw away that inconvenient little "taxing and spending" clause in the Constitution that gives the federal government legal power and authority to collect taxes.

Dude, have you actually ever even READ the Constitution?

Anonymous wrote:Again, find me even ONE example in history of a nation that worked without any government.

Just one.

PROVE to me that you're right.

Again, THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF HISTORY, HUMAN NATURE, COMMON SENSE and CRITICAL THINKING all prove that I am the one who is right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ You didn't read the article did you? Glenn Beck DID NOT WRITE IT! LOLOLOL. My reference was to a book he wrote titled "Arguing with Idiots".

By the way? I'm not a libertarian. I'm a Constitutional Conservative, if anything, more of a 'limitarian', i.e. limited government.

The point you are missing is that Somalia IS NOT LIBERTARIAN. And no progressive rant is complete until it includes something about the Koch Brothers. You missed a trick and forgot to mention Dick Cheney....

I know the Daily Kos is all over this, but they are (again) wrong.

Somalia isn't "libertarian" in the sense of not comporting with whatever naive, fantastical vision the delusional libertarians have, where everyone is a good person, and if only we get evil government out of the way we will all suddenly have free ponies and rainbow ice cream. But Somalia absolutely IS libertarian in the sense of not having any government in the way, and everyone there is free to do whatever they want to do without any taxes, laws or regulations of any kind of red tape to get in their way. That is EXACTLY what Somalia is. Somalia is the inconvenient reality of libertarianism.

Look, you can trot out all the opinion pieces you like, but until you can actually demonstrate a successful libertarian nation, you got nothing. Somalia IS the ground truth.

And, you "limitarians" are not much freaking better. Chop the legs out from federal government and all you have left is states becoming a loose balkanized jumble of small backwater countries that could barely compete on the world stage. Between China and Russia any American world presence would evaporate in a heartbeat. And "Constitutional Conservative" is a misnomer, by the way, given how you guys want to pick and choose what parts of the Constitution you find valid. For example, you'd throw away clauses which have long been upheld in the courts, like "interstate commerce" and "necessary and proper" and "general welfare" in a heartbeat.

Again, you are incorrect. I am not 'trotting out blogs'. I am giving you the history of the country. Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

The Constitution limits the federal government. All that's not there falls to the states and locals. It's really, really simple. One can also amend the Constitution - one of the gifts our forefathers gave us, recognizing a changing future world. Amending the Constitution is not supposed to be easy, because your really want to be careful how much power you give to the Feds - they are simply too far from the people to govern effectively.

Let's say Sanders gets into office. How is he going to force the elite to pay up? How is he going to force them to produce?

Again, this "the elite and businessmen won't want to produce" crap of yours is a total red herring. "Socialist" Sweden has an even higher per-capita GDP than the US. They produce just fine.

As for "being careful of how much power you give to the feds" you gloss over the potential issue of how much power you give to states and to local governments - which in many cases have been far more abusive, more corrupt, and less transparent than federal government. Womp, womp. And if you think you have more power to do something about it, good luck with that because you really don't.

Anonymous wrote:LOL! Get these "Constitutional Conservatives" and libertarians away from their conservative blogs and their talk radio and their cozy little Glenn Beck bubble of delusion and out into the real world, and they get an instant smackdown.

Sorry, folks, but Glenn Beck and others of his ilk COUNT on you dupes to be uninformed and gullible. And it works every time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm very familiar with thus case and the CEOs trust me, what the press says and what happened is not congruent. Everyone knows he was singled out, targeted, and hung out to dry.

Well, if "everyone" knows it, that settles it. Certainly, we should trust "everyone" rather than what we read in the press.

BTW, I am also very familiar with the case. I visited the Memphis plant a few days before it was raided. I own two Gibson guitars and followed the case very closely. The violations discovered in the second round of raids were clearly justified by the false paperwork used to import the wood. It turned out that the violations were not that severe and that the Indian government probably didn't care in the first place. That is probably why the case was settled favorably to Gibson.

Henry Juszkiewicz made a huge mistake by running to the right-wingers and acting like a victim of an over-zealous government. He alienated guitar players who care about the environment. In contrast, companies like Taylor and Martin who are much more forward thinking. That's why I bought a Taylor at that time.

Use your damn head. When you are raided by a SWAT team for freaking fingerboards - twice - it's not about wood. Bob Taylor himself told me that they get their wood the same way that Gibson does, and he didn't understand it. The Indian government disputes the 'false paperwork' and the government admits 'confusion'.

Yet it was only Gibson raided, and only Gibson that had to pay settle and be financially raped in order to get their wood back. There is no need to go into a guitar factory - twice - at gunpoint.

Gibson only alienated progressive guitar players who believe the media.

Bullshit. This extended video from Bob Taylor completely an thoroughly refutes your claim. They absolutely do not get their wood the same way.