Anonymous wrote:And please stop saying therapy. That will not help. If we go to couples counseling and all of this comes out, I do not see how that will improve the situation. It will just crush him and end our marriage.

DH here: that's a possible outcome, and there is no avoiding it given your current reality. If I were him, though, I would want to know the truth of our marriage, even if it was painful to hear. And who knows, maybe it will be liberating for him. Based on how you describe things, I'd guess that he is likely quite unhappy with the current state of affairs already, and wondering desperately what he can do to make himself more attractive to you. If the answer really is "nothing," it might be a relief to finally have that out in the open.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe that it's easier for OP to ask for a divorce than to say to him "please don't kiss me until I cum".
Maybe he's as sexually frustrated as you are seeing that there are two sexually passive people in this marital bed.

Ok, first, the language is gross and insulting. But that was just an example to give you some idea. That's not the specific problem. It's much larger than that. I don't *want* to have sex with him. That's it in a nutshell. I'm sure he thinks I have a very low libido, which is a laugh. He's alluded to that in the past.

How old is you husband?

Same age, about to turn 40. Why?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not him specifically. I don't think we will get back together. We're barely even in contact anymore. But I want someone like him. Just less disfunctional and angry at the world.

Is it not his being an angry person that makes him rough during sex? Not sure if you can really have one without the other, unless the roughness like with your husband would be an act that a guy may or may not be comfortable with?

OP here. Maybe. It probably has something to do with the level of caring about the other person. It sounds sick but I think I liked being the pursuer instead of the pursuee. If that makes any sense.

NP here. OP, do you think you possibly struggle with poor self-worth? That you think a handsome man who is committed to his job and family couldn't possibly be interested in you? And you resent your DH for actually pursuing you and doing what he can to make a good life for you and your children?

Maybe. It's possible. But, at this point, do the whys even matter? You want what you want. What I've learned from this experience is that you can't change feelings like that. You just can't. I can live with what is lacking in my life but I still something different. I still want what I want, you know?

PP here -- the "whys" matter because they might explain why you "want what you want." In other words, it's *possible* that another person in your situation with strong self-worth would find ways around the issue you're having, and if you were able to build up your self-worth that you could be happy with your DH and your marriage. Sure, that might not happen. But isn't it worth exploring all your options before you proceed to divorce or completely withdraw from the marriage?

I'm just trying to give you something to think about. It sounds like you've already decided that your marriage cannot be rescued. But I really hope that you'll slow down and look at your DH and children and decide whether divorce is the right option for all of you. Yes, you deserve to be happy and to have a good sex life, and I am absolutely not in the "if you divorce, you'll ruin your life" camp. But...just like anything else in a marriage (communication, division of labor, child-rearing), sex can be discussed and improved upon to make both parties happy. If your DH is unwilling to do this, you probably do need to get couple's therapy, and if that fails, move toward divorce. But really, you owe it to your children and your DH to try to make work before you go there.

Anonymous wrote:OP, You have lost your mind. The truth is, unless you are out on the street at 40 yrs of age with 2 kids trying to find hot sex in a stable, educated, intelligent, kind, well off guy you will not come to your senses. It is such a shame that you can't appreciate what you have, it is really sad. Maybe the only way you will appreciate it is, you divorce him and he will remarry within a year and you will be looking for the perfect guy for next 10 yrs. Nothing short of that will bring you to your senses.

+1
OP you need to leave. it looks like you have already made up your mind anyways. but do know that ten years from now you will still be alone - will not have SO, our kids will resent you for destroying their lives for no reason and your mom and sister, if alive, will definitively ever tire from pointing out a disaster you made out of your life.

OP, You have lost your mind. The truth is, unless you are out on the street at 40 yrs of age with 2 kids trying to find hot sex in a stable, educated, intelligent, kind, well off guy you will not come to your senses. It is such a shame that you can't appreciate what you have, it is really sad. Maybe the only way you will appreciate it is, you divorce him and he will remarry within a year and you will be looking for the perfect guy for next 10 yrs. Nothing short of that will bring you to your senses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not him specifically. I don't think we will get back together. We're barely even in contact anymore. But I want someone like him. Just less disfunctional and angry at the world.

Is it not his being an angry person that makes him rough during sex? Not sure if you can really have one without the other, unless the roughness like with your husband would be an act that a guy may or may not be comfortable with?

OP here. Maybe. It probably has something to do with the level of caring about the other person. It sounds sick but I think I liked being the pursuer instead of the pursuee. If that makes any sense.

I'm not sure I understand the connection between being rough and being the pursuee? Unless his roughness was in pushing you away! Were the roughness from him and the being the pursuer yourself two different things? Did you actually like being the pursuer or did you just like that you liked him so much? (How were you the pursuer? Called more? Initiated the sex?)

Pursuer means she wants not to be wanted kind of, like by her ex who didn't want to marry her. Then, when the man actually gets to having sex with her he is rough. So the man is dominant, both in terms of desire (has less) and execution; treats her like a slave that's always there for him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not him specifically. I don't think we will get back together. We're barely even in contact anymore. But I want someone like him. Just less disfunctional and angry at the world.

Is it not his being an angry person that makes him rough during sex? Not sure if you can really have one without the other, unless the roughness like with your husband would be an act that a guy may or may not be comfortable with?

OP here. Maybe. It probably has something to do with the level of caring about the other person. It sounds sick but I think I liked being the pursuer instead of the pursuee. If that makes any sense.

I'm not sure I understand the connection between being rough and being the pursuee? Unless his roughness was in pushing you away! Were the roughness from him and the being the pursuer yourself two different things? Did you actually like being the pursuer or did you just like that you liked him so much? (How were you the pursuer? Called more? Initiated the sex?)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe that it's easier for OP to ask for a divorce than to say to him "please don't kiss me until I cum".
Maybe he's as sexually frustrated as you are seeing that there are two sexually passive people in this marital bed.

Ok, first, the language is gross and insulting. But that was just an example to give you some idea. That's not the specific problem. It's much larger than that. I don't *want* to have sex with him. That's it in a nutshell. I'm sure he thinks I have a very low libido, which is a laugh. He's alluded to that in the past.

How old is you husband?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe that it's easier for OP to ask for a divorce than to say to him "please don't kiss me until I cum".
Maybe he's as sexually frustrated as you are seeing that there are two sexually passive people in this marital bed.

Ok, first, the language is gross and insulting. But that was just an example to give you some idea. That's not the specific problem. It's much larger than that. I don't *want* to have sex with him. That's it in a nutshell. I'm sure he thinks I have a very low libido, which is a laugh. He's alluded to that in the past.

I would not force yourself to have sex with him any longer. Just stop and whatever happens happens.

Anonymous wrote:Can't you have a conversation with him about your sex life without insulting him like you fear? So, in therapy or just together without a therapist, you could talk about how you really want X kind of sex without putting down the sex he likes to have. Perhaps you guys could compromise and do it his way some time and your way other times?

For example, and sorry if this is really more explicit than this forum should be dealing with, my husband is really into a certain kind of oral sex that doesn't float my boat. Because I know he's into it, I do it and pretend that it's great at least a couple of times a month. Other times, we do things the way I really want them (I have no clue if he doesn't like it that way - he acts like it's great too, but maybe he just wants to make me happy). Anyway, it's variety and I make sure he gets what he really wants, even though it's not all of the time.

Does that make sense? Maybe talk to him about variety being the spice of life. If you could get the sex you wanted at least occasionally, maybe that could kickstart things.

But, bottom line, what is most important to you? Hot sex and chemistry with someone else or a solid, loving family that might be without passion.

OP here. This is true. I think I will try this. It's really hard though.

Anonymous wrote:And please stop saying therapy. That will not help. If we go to couples counseling and all of this comes out, I do not see how that will improve the situation. It will just crush him and end our marriage.

I don't think you can indefinitely continue to live a lie. Maybe just skip to asking for a divorce and give reasons that aren't the full truth in order not to hurt your DH's feelings too much.

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe that it's easier for OP to ask for a divorce than to say to him "please don't kiss me until I cum".
Maybe he's as sexually frustrated as you are seeing that there are two sexually passive people in this marital bed.

Ok, first, the language is gross and insulting. But that was just an example to give you some idea. That's not the specific problem. It's much larger than that. I don't *want* to have sex with him. That's it in a nutshell. I'm sure he thinks I have a very low libido, which is a laugh. He's alluded to that in the past.

I can't believe that it's easier for OP to ask for a divorce than to say to him "please don't kiss me until I cum".
Maybe he's as sexually frustrated as you are seeing that there are two sexually passive people in this marital bed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And please stop saying therapy. That will not help. If we go to couples counseling and all of this comes out, I do not see how that will improve the situation. It will just crush him and end our marriage.

You have no respect for your DH at all -- "it will just crush him". How do you know? Again, why go you only have real conversations with your friends and MOTHER yet not your DH? Maybe he would like to tell YOU some things you don't want to hear.

Oh really? How would you feel to be told that your husband doesn't find you attractive at all, thinks you're bad in bed, and gets a skin crawly feeling when you have sex?

Jesus Christ, why did you marry him then?????????????

It sounds naive but I thought it might change over time and that I would fall in love with him. Because, when I'm being objective about the situation, I realize that he *is* a really great guy and I am lucky to have him. He is a wonderful, amazing father and I am really glad that he is the father of my children. As this thread demonstrates, there are many, many women out there who would be thrilled to marry him. And, despite my complaints about him and the situation, he is one of my closest friends. If I didn't have this problem, it would be very close to perfectly ideal. Also, it wasn't as bad back then. The sex has gotten worse over time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not him specifically. I don't think we will get back together. We're barely even in contact anymore. But I want someone like him. Just less disfunctional and angry at the world.

Is it not his being an angry person that makes him rough during sex? Not sure if you can really have one without the other, unless the roughness like with your husband would be an act that a guy may or may not be comfortable with?

OP here. Maybe. It probably has something to do with the level of caring about the other person. It sounds sick but I think I liked being the pursuer instead of the pursuee. If that makes any sense.

NP here. OP, do you think you possibly struggle with poor self-worth? That you think a handsome man who is committed to his job and family couldn't possibly be interested in you? And you resent your DH for actually pursuing you and doing what he can to make a good life for you and your children?

Maybe. It's possible. But, at this point, do the whys even matter? You want what you want. What I've learned from this experience is that you can't change feelings like that. You just can't. I can live with what is lacking in my life but I still something different. I still want what I want, you know?

but you do understand that you are not going to get what you want?