Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to be your child. Enjoy their rebellion. I'm not saying that to be snarky either, just a view from the outside looking in.

THIS + 1,000,000

I wonder what that PP is rebelling against herself. Because I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that her daughter will rebel and do a complete 180 as soon as she gets the chance. Used, non-name brand clothes- that is NOT going to make middle school and high school any easier at all. Seriously. You're welcome to make whatever choices you want for your family, obviously we all have different ways of raising our kids, there's no single instruction manual.

Let me put it this way- YOU are a social outlier. This can't be a revelation for you, you probably enjoy being smarter and different than all of us sheep who blindly follow social norms. But you are making YOUR DAUGHTER a social outlier as well. And goddamn, that's a rough way to grow up.

Up to this point, both my son and my daughter are happy, well-adjusted children. We avoid peer-orientation (to use a fundie expression, tho we're not extremely religious and we're not Christians), as much as possible. If a mean kid who teases and bullies shows up in their social circle, we take action and the little teaser/bully is weeded out or learns to leave our children alone, and we take great care to build up our children, to let them know that the people doing the teasing are wrong, not them.

Are you for real?? Seriously are there people like you out there or are you doing some type of internet parody?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, PP. Your kids are still of a single digit age. You are probably in for some surprises.

+1

Especially if she has strong opinions about raising a 10 year old. I'm not saying BTDT parents know everything but I'm pretty sure the mother of a 5 year old doesn't have a clue about middle school and high school peer pressure.

+2

PP you have NO idea what you are in for - I had a feeling your kids were little.

Hey OP, you let your kid shave yet?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the first impression you're talking about includes having to have shaven legs and wear makeup, and the male equivalent for my son, then I hope they'll decide that's the wrong place for them. But that will be their life and their choice.

What job are they going to get if they refuse to wear make up and put on your best clothes? Your first impression is given long before you open your mouth. Its so funny- you keep saying that it will be their choice but the philosophy you're describing will effectively eliminate most career choices for them.

New PP, and honestly who gives 2 shits?! Really, do any of these PPs give a flying fart that this PP with a very specific world view might be limiting her child's career choices or whatever else people seem to prattle on about? I don't. I only really care if someone is being abused. If you think this is even in the realm of abuse or neglect, get out of your pretty little hole, because it's not. And this is from a woman who has probably $600+/1 in makeup and hair products on her bathroom counter. I could give 2 craps if PPs kids become CEOs of IBs or if they have no skills beyond living on a commune in rural GA. Why the need to fight them? To show them they are "wrong"?

These are seriously privileged problems!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, PP. Your kids are still of a single digit age. You are probably in for some surprises.

+1

Especially if she has strong opinions about raising a 10 year old. I'm not saying BTDT parents know everything but I'm pretty sure the mother of a 5 year old doesn't have a clue about middle school and high school peer pressure.

+2

I had to smile to myself after reading that her kids are 5 and 3! Ah, the idealism of youth! Just wait...

Anonymous wrote:If the first impression you're talking about includes having to have shaven legs and wear makeup, and the male equivalent for my son, then I hope they'll decide that's the wrong place for them. But that will be their life and their choice.

What job are they going to get if they refuse to wear make up and put on your best clothes? Your first impression is given long before you open your mouth. Its so funny- you keep saying that it will be their choice but the philosophy you're describing will effectively eliminate most career choices for them.

Anonymous wrote:OK, PP. Your kids are still of a single digit age. You are probably in for some surprises.

+1

Especially if she has strong opinions about raising a 10 year old. I'm not saying BTDT parents know everything but I'm pretty sure the mother of a 5 year old doesn't have a clue about middle school and high school peer pressure.

OK, PP. Your kids are still of a single digit age. You are probably in for some surprises.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to be your child. Enjoy their rebellion. I'm not saying that to be snarky either, just a view from the outside looking in.

THIS + 1,000,000

I wonder what that PP is rebelling against herself. Because I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that her daughter will rebel and do a complete 180 as soon as she gets the chance. Used, non-name brand clothes- that is NOT going to make middle school and high school any easier at all. Seriously. You're welcome to make whatever choices you want for your family, obviously we all have different ways of raising our kids, there's no single instruction manual.

Let me put it this way- YOU are a social outlier. This can't be a revelation for you, you probably enjoy being smarter and different than all of us sheep who blindly follow social norms. But you are making YOUR DAUGHTER a social outlier as well. And goddamn, that's a rough way to grow up.

Up to this point, both my son and my daughter are happy, well-adjusted children. We avoid peer-orientation (to use a fundie expression, tho we're not extremely religious and we're not Christians), as much as possible. If a mean kid who teases and bullies shows up in their social circle, we take action and the little teaser/bully is weeded out or learns to leave our children alone, and we take great care to build up our children, to let them know that the people doing the teasing are wrong, not them.

Are you planning on sending your child to a public middle and high school? Your ability to control and monitor their social circle will end at some point. The fact that you are referencing "little teasers" gives me some insight. You appear to think of them as little kids, mine are 15 and 17. Its not about teasing and bullying, per se. Peer interactions between older kids is much more complicated. Not sure how you're going to "weed out" a majority of a high school class. IMO- your approach will encourage your kids to isolate themselves from a majority of their peers.

I'm curious how you will handle them getting a job, making a good first impression, and fitting in society as a whole.

It just seems like you're making everything a battle. Did your parents share a similar mindset, fighting against societal norms, or have you adopted a mindset and lifestyle that is contrary to how they raised you? I'm genuinely interested.

My son is 5.5, my daughter is three. So, up to this point, they are little kids, and they meet little teasers now and then. We teach them that teasing is wrong, and as a matter of fact, teasing on their part gets them some of the most severe consequences in the book.

I hope to be able to homeschool my children through high school. That may or may not be possible, according to various factors, but that's our family's hope and goal.

They will be equipped with skills for getting a job they like and makes them happy, whatever that might be. My husband and I watch closely to understand what their interests are, and we provide them plenty of opportunities to build on these interest and explore new ones. Their good first impression will be based on manners, kindness, and skills such as being personable people. If the first impression you're talking about includes having to have shaven legs and wear makeup, and the male equivalent for my son, then I hope they'll decide that's the wrong place for them. But that will be their life and their choice.

I am not rebelling about anything much. My mother raised me with awareness of a lot of things, for other things (e.g. going Vegan), I had to find my own ways because they weren't on her radar. I am comfortable with whom I am.

I don't make everything into a battle. Our family just has strong key values that don't get thrown out of the window because of matters of vanity and the like. I was very lucky in finding a man who shares my fundamental values and is on the same page as I am as house rules go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to be your child. Enjoy their rebellion. I'm not saying that to be snarky either, just a view from the outside looking in.

THIS + 1,000,000

I wonder what that PP is rebelling against herself. Because I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that her daughter will rebel and do a complete 180 as soon as she gets the chance. Used, non-name brand clothes- that is NOT going to make middle school and high school any easier at all. Seriously. You're welcome to make whatever choices you want for your family, obviously we all have different ways of raising our kids, there's no single instruction manual.

Let me put it this way- YOU are a social outlier. This can't be a revelation for you, you probably enjoy being smarter and different than all of us sheep who blindly follow social norms. But you are making YOUR DAUGHTER a social outlier as well. And goddamn, that's a rough way to grow up.

Up to this point, both my son and my daughter are happy, well-adjusted children. We avoid peer-orientation (to use a fundie expression, tho we're not extremely religious and we're not Christians), as much as possible. If a mean kid who teases and bullies shows up in their social circle, we take action and the little teaser/bully is weeded out or learns to leave our children alone, and we take great care to build up our children, to let them know that the people doing the teasing are wrong, not them.

Are you planning on sending your child to a public middle and high school? Your ability to control and monitor their social circle will end at some point. The fact that you are referencing "little teasers" gives me some insight. You appear to think of them as little kids, mine are 15 and 17. Its not about teasing and bullying, per se. Peer interactions between older kids is much more complicated. Not sure how you're going to "weed out" a majority of a high school class. IMO- your approach will encourage your kids to isolate themselves from a majority of their peers.

I'm curious how you will handle them getting a job, making a good first impression, and fitting in society as a whole.

It just seems like you're making everything a battle. Did your parents share a similar mindset, fighting against societal norms, or have you adopted a mindset and lifestyle that is contrary to how they raised you? I'm genuinely interested.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to be your child. Enjoy their rebellion. I'm not saying that to be snarky either, just a view from the outside looking in.

THIS + 1,000,000

I wonder what that PP is rebelling against herself. Because I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that her daughter will rebel and do a complete 180 as soon as she gets the chance. Used, non-name brand clothes- that is NOT going to make middle school and high school any easier at all. Seriously. You're welcome to make whatever choices you want for your family, obviously we all have different ways of raising our kids, there's no single instruction manual.

Let me put it this way- YOU are a social outlier. This can't be a revelation for you, you probably enjoy being smarter and different than all of us sheep who blindly follow social norms. But you are making YOUR DAUGHTER a social outlier as well. And goddamn, that's a rough way to grow up.

Up to this point, both my son and my daughter are happy, well-adjusted children. We avoid peer-orientation (to use a fundie expression, tho we're not extremely religious and we're not Christians), as much as possible. If a mean kid who teases and bullies shows up in their social circle, we take action and the little teaser/bully is weeded out or learns to leave our children alone, and we take great care to build up our children, to let them know that the people doing the teasing are wrong, not them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why some parents want to make a social justice stand at the expense of their childs self esteem. Makes me sad.

Teach her to shave, get laser for her 16th/18th birthday.

It's not a social justice stand. It's instilling values in one's child. Part of a parent's job.

Values? Value in being embarrassed by something that is basic grooming? Do you remove hair from your legs, pits, pubic area?

No, I don't shave. My children know, in an age appropriate way, why I don't, and why other ladies chose to.

You're daughter might choose to. Bodily autonomy and all.

A-freaking-gain, her body her choice. She'll just be given knowledge about the background of the topic and told it's happening within the limits set by the key family rules, or not at all.

Every parent sets limits. It's part of the job.

I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to be your child. Enjoy their rebellion. I'm not saying that to be snarky either, just a view from the outside looking in.

Oh, please. I'm fully expecting a degree of rebellion because that's what all children do. They rebel, it's part of growing up. They test limits. But key values that have been instilled resurface to guide a person through life, and that's what we're counting on. They will be ok, they won't go through life unaware of issues, they'll do their bit to make the world a better place. I'm fairly sure of that.

Laugh away all you want. I know my kids, you don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

Don't make your daughter fight the patriarchy on your behalf. Help her navigate the elementary and middle school norms emotionally intact, so she can fight the battles she wants to fight once she's old enough to do so.

It's a more extreme case, but it reminds me of the contingent of naked people I saw in a parade in a very lefty, liberal, non-patriarchal place. What troubled me was the fact that some of their elementary-aged kids were marching with them, also naked. Now maybe they really did want to fight norms by parading naked down the street, but maybe they were also feeling coerced by parents who said, "if you choose to wear clothes, you are choosing to adopt the anti-nudist paradigm and anti-nudism-dictated norms."

Did you read my post, or are you trying to stir s***? It would ultimately be her choice to shave or not. The decision just wouldn't happen in a vacuum. She'd be taught where the idea of shaving one's legs (etc.) = good comes from, who profits from people who buy into that idea, what she is actually choosing to do (i.e. bend to patriarchy norms). She would be armed with knowledge, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm sorry, but do you ever re-read your posts? Out loud? They are seriously comical. Is every decision in your family fraught with socio-political implications?

This kind of decision is. Because of what I already explained and I'm not going to repeat. If you want to call it comical, go ahead. We choose to be aware of the implications of our choices, especially major ones. And yes, this is a biggie.

It means something to you...but what about your children? You are going to fight them on something like shaving that may make heir tween years that much more bearable? What about being in their corner?

If you honestly can't comprehend the difference between fighting your children and arming them with knowledge, then you need remedial comprehension classes, and I don't have the time, the energy and the desire to give you any. Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

Just wanted to say, there are several people responding to you, not just one person.

Anonymous wrote:You hit the nail on the head.

I say that because its what many of us do. Most come back around and eventually turn into our parents anyway.

Its not just this issue but I think its a big driver for all the parenting books and methods, all the petty infighting about the best way to raise a child and live our lives. Because there's simply NFW that our parents knew what they were doing when they just did the best they could and let the rough edge drag. Amirite?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to be your child. Enjoy their rebellion. I'm not saying that to be snarky either, just a view from the outside looking in.

THIS + 1,000,000

I wonder what that PP is rebelling against herself. Because I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that her daughter will rebel and do a complete 180 as soon as she gets the chance. Used, non-name brand clothes- that is NOT going to make middle school and high school any easier at all. Seriously. You're welcome to make whatever choices you want for your family, obviously we all have different ways of raising our kids, there's no single instruction manual.

Let me put it this way- YOU are a social outlier. This can't be a revelation for you, you probably enjoy being smarter and different than all of us sheep who blindly follow social norms. But you are making YOUR DAUGHTER a social outlier as well. And goddamn, that's a rough way to grow up.

You hit the nail on the head.