Anonymous
05/12/2015 11:02
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:May you all (ok, lots of you) walk a thousand miles in that mom's shoes before you judge.
People aren't really judging her. Things happen, but the mom could have handled things more tactfully. So could the airline. But bringing it to the media and suing the airline are absurd, and FAR more worthy of "mom-judgment" than the original requests/threats/etc.
+ 1. This will follow the daughter and mom for the rest of their lives. Hiring a lawyer is stupid and looks crass and money-grabbing. Also, we also don't know exactly what the mom said to the flight attendant. But once the word "violence" is used, the pilot had ever right to bring the plane down.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:57
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:May you all (ok, lots of you) walk a thousand miles in that mom's shoes before you judge.
People aren't really judging her. Things happen, but the mom could have handled things more tactfully. So could the airline. But bringing it to the media and suing the airline are absurd, and FAR more worthy of "mom-judgment" than the original requests/threats/etc.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:56
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:May you all (ok, lots of you) walk a thousand miles in that mom's shoes before you judge.
+1
Perhaps in the Flight Attendant's shoes too.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:54
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
May you all (ok, lots of you) walk a thousand miles in that mom's shoes before you judge.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:50
Subject: Re:Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:Is there some reason the mother didn't plan ahead for the trip to have hot food available for her child?
Is there some reason you didn't read the article?
They were on a long trip. Mom tried to feed her teen between flights, the teen refused to eat. This isn't a spoiled brat refusing to eat. Yes, mom could have phrased the concern more carefully. But the bottom line was, she was in a situation with her autistic teen. Everything cannot necessarily be planned ahead for, and avoided. Mom's approach could have been better, and the airline employee's response could have been better.
I once flew with a young toddler. When they brought me my meal he was just trying to fall asleep in my arms. They tried to put my tray down, so they could put the food down. My tray ended up on the seat beside me, and one employee refused to take it back for a few minutes. It took another employee to come along a few minutes later and realize the issue. He took the tray away, warmed up ds's bottle without even being asked, and then brought me hot food once ds was asleep and back in his own seat. A little bit of effort went a long way.
In this case yeah, mom could have and maybe should have booked first class. It's easy as hell to sit back and judge and offer solutions after the fact.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:47
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
If the Mom wanted hot food, she should have bought a ticket that enabled her to hot food. Buying a cheap ticket and then demanding the perks of a more expensive one is a big cause of the issue. It's like buying a Southwest ticket and demanding that your child sits in 23B because it's their favorite number. The answer to this woman is "no" and she feels like she does not have to accept that answer, she's wrong. Her needs do not magically come before everyone else needs, why is that hard to understand?
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:39
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If i knew hot food would help calm my child I would purchase some right before getting on the plane (asking wherever I was ordering it from make it piping hot) and give it to her on the plane. Or I would pony up the cash and buy a first class seat. This isn't rocket science. IF the parent really knew her child she would be prepared. This isn't a special needs issue, it's a stupid parent issue.
Yeah, maybe, but haven't we all made bonehead parenting mistakes. My issue here is the mom's actions when she realized her daughter needed food. She informed the flight crew that her daughter had the potential to become violent, that the triggers for violence were present and that mom could not control her and prevent the violence. The flight crew then had to make decisions. From what I can see, the flight crew made two decisions: to take action to try to prevent the daughter from becoming agitated (or maybe more agitated - can't tell what her state was before the food), which was to give her food and to prevent injury or harm to passengers if the efforts to prevent problems were not successful (which was to divert). In this case, the girl was fine in the end, but once the decision is made to divert, there is no going back.
United was in the position of predicting and did the best they could. They are damned now because the girl was fine, but had they not diverted and the girl become violent, then they would have been damned for that decision. No one has a crystal ball.
Thing is, when the mom had a problem, she really should not have said that her daughter might become violent and she was unable to control/prevent it. We all live in the post 911 era. Given that mom travels a lot, she should know better. Sounds to me like mom was really tired after a trip across country to Disney and acted poorly.
And, I'm not convinced this is a training issue either. If someone tells the flight attendant that their child has the potential for violence, the triggers are present and they cannot prevent nor control their child, what more did the flight attendant need to know?
A 15 year old girl crying and scratching herself is not going to bring down a frigging plane. What this really has to do with is the power trip pilots and FAs are on these days.
Captains have powers on a plane. They are responsible for the safety of the flight. In other words, he could give orders to handcuff any trouble maker on board the plane and hand him over to security on landing.
In addition he could “disembark any person endangering the safety of the flight or to deliver such person under restraint to the competent authorities…”
Hence a "pilot in command" (a captain in this case) is defined as the person who
1. has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
2. has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight;
3. holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_in_command
Yes. But the pilot does not have the right to violate somebody's rights based on color, religion, sexual orientation, or for a disability, etc.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:38
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If i knew hot food would help calm my child I would purchase some right before getting on the plane (asking wherever I was ordering it from make it piping hot) and give it to her on the plane. Or I would pony up the cash and buy a first class seat. This isn't rocket science. IF the parent really knew her child she would be prepared. This isn't a special needs issue, it's a stupid parent issue.
Yeah, maybe, but haven't we all made bonehead parenting mistakes. My issue here is the mom's actions when she realized her daughter needed food. She informed the flight crew that her daughter had the potential to become violent, that the triggers for violence were present and that mom could not control her and prevent the violence. The flight crew then had to make decisions. From what I can see, the flight crew made two decisions: to take action to try to prevent the daughter from becoming agitated (or maybe more agitated - can't tell what her state was before the food), which was to give her food and to prevent injury or harm to passengers if the efforts to prevent problems were not successful (which was to divert). In this case, the girl was fine in the end, but once the decision is made to divert, there is no going back.
United was in the position of predicting and did the best they could. They are damned now because the girl was fine, but had they not diverted and the girl become violent, then they would have been damned for that decision. No one has a crystal ball.
Thing is, when the mom had a problem, she really should not have said that her daughter might become violent and she was unable to control/prevent it. We all live in the post 911 era. Given that mom travels a lot, she should know better. Sounds to me like mom was really tired after a trip across country to Disney and acted poorly.
And, I'm not convinced this is a training issue either. If someone tells the flight attendant that their child has the potential for violence, the triggers are present and they cannot prevent nor control their child, what more did the flight attendant need to know?
A 15 year old girl crying and scratching herself is not going to bring down a frigging plane. What this really has to do with is the power trip pilots and FAs are on these days.
+1
In addition, you account of the story is incorrect. She ordered a chicken sandwich and realized it was cold and asked for it to be heated up. The attendant said, we only have hot food in 1st class. The mom said, she may have a meltdown if I don't get hot food, why wait until she is crying and scratching herself ... I know once that starts you will give her the food. So they heated up the food while they were landed but called to be diverted anyway.
The girls travels often and has never had a problem. The mom's request was reasonable and she was avoiding issues on the plane. She did not say she could not control her child, she said she could control her child with a hot sandwich or hot rice.
The person that is probably tired and overworked is the United FA.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:36
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If i knew hot food would help calm my child I would purchase some right before getting on the plane (asking wherever I was ordering it from make it piping hot) and give it to her on the plane. Or I would pony up the cash and buy a first class seat. This isn't rocket science. IF the parent really knew her child she would be prepared. This isn't a special needs issue, it's a stupid parent issue.
Yeah, maybe, but haven't we all made bonehead parenting mistakes. My issue here is the mom's actions when she realized her daughter needed food. She informed the flight crew that her daughter had the potential to become violent, that the triggers for violence were present and that mom could not control her and prevent the violence. The flight crew then had to make decisions. From what I can see, the flight crew made two decisions: to take action to try to prevent the daughter from becoming agitated (or maybe more agitated - can't tell what her state was before the food), which was to give her food and to prevent injury or harm to passengers if the efforts to prevent problems were not successful (which was to divert). In this case, the girl was fine in the end, but once the decision is made to divert, there is no going back.
United was in the position of predicting and did the best they could. They are damned now because the girl was fine, but had they not diverted and the girl become violent, then they would have been damned for that decision. No one has a crystal ball.
Thing is, when the mom had a problem, she really should not have said that her daughter might become violent and she was unable to control/prevent it. We all live in the post 911 era. Given that mom travels a lot, she should know better. Sounds to me like mom was really tired after a trip across country to Disney and acted poorly.
And, I'm not convinced this is a training issue either. If someone tells the flight attendant that their child has the potential for violence, the triggers are present and they cannot prevent nor control their child, what more did the flight attendant need to know?
A 15 year old girl crying and scratching herself is not going to bring down a frigging plane. What this really has to do with is the power trip pilots and FAs are on these days.
Captains have powers on a plane. They are responsible for the safety of the flight. In other words, he could give orders to handcuff any trouble maker on board the plane and hand him over to security on landing.
In addition he could “disembark any person endangering the safety of the flight or to deliver such person under restraint to the competent authorities…”
Hence a "pilot in command" (a captain in this case) is defined as the person who
1. has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
2. has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight;
3. holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_in_command
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:36
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If i knew hot food would help calm my child I would purchase some right before getting on the plane (asking wherever I was ordering it from make it piping hot) and give it to her on the plane. Or I would pony up the cash and buy a first class seat. This isn't rocket science. IF the parent really knew her child she would be prepared. This isn't a special needs issue, it's a stupid parent issue.
Yeah, maybe, but haven't we all made bonehead parenting mistakes. My issue here is the mom's actions when she realized her daughter needed food. She informed the flight crew that her daughter had the potential to become violent, that the triggers for violence were present and that mom could not control her and prevent the violence. The flight crew then had to make decisions. From what I can see, the flight crew made two decisions: to take action to try to prevent the daughter from becoming agitated (or maybe more agitated - can't tell what her state was before the food), which was to give her food and to prevent injury or harm to passengers if the efforts to prevent problems were not successful (which was to divert). In this case, the girl was fine in the end, but once the decision is made to divert, there is no going back.
United was in the position of predicting and did the best they could. They are damned now because the girl was fine, but had they not diverted and the girl become violent, then they would have been damned for that decision. No one has a crystal ball.
Thing is, when the mom had a problem, she really should not have said that her daughter might become violent and she was unable to control/prevent it. We all live in the post 911 era. Given that mom travels a lot, she should know better. Sounds to me like mom was really tired after a trip across country to Disney and acted poorly.
And, I'm not convinced this is a training issue either. If someone tells the flight attendant that their child has the potential for violence, the triggers are present and they cannot prevent nor control their child, what more did the flight attendant need to know?
+1
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:35
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:I have experienced wonderful kindnesses from flight attendants with my NT kid. Once a flight was delayed so long it took off at 1 a.m.; kid was hungry and tired and the flight attendant gave him her own meal, and refused my money when I tried to pay for a blanket and pillow. Of course I immediately emailed the airline with praise for the attendant. It seems like the attendant could have handled this case a little more tolerantly and thoughtfully to prevent the escalation. For those who fault the mother for being shrill with her demands, isn't everyone on a plane shrill? We don't like our seat mate; we're worried about making our connections; we complain about nut residue; we're annoyed by the crying baby. Being on a plane makes us all feel a little entitled, and I can relate to the mother for perhaps voicing her desperation in a less than subtle way.
No, I'm not shrill or entitled and I fly a million miles during most years.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:35
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If i knew hot food would help calm my child I would purchase some right before getting on the plane (asking wherever I was ordering it from make it piping hot) and give it to her on the plane. Or I would pony up the cash and buy a first class seat. This isn't rocket science. IF the parent really knew her child she would be prepared. This isn't a special needs issue, it's a stupid parent issue.
Yeah, maybe, but haven't we all made bonehead parenting mistakes. My issue here is the mom's actions when she realized her daughter needed food. She informed the flight crew that her daughter had the potential to become violent, that the triggers for violence were present and that mom could not control her and prevent the violence. The flight crew then had to make decisions. From what I can see, the flight crew made two decisions: to take action to try to prevent the daughter from becoming agitated (or maybe more agitated - can't tell what her state was before the food), which was to give her food and to prevent injury or harm to passengers if the efforts to prevent problems were not successful (which was to divert). In this case, the girl was fine in the end, but once the decision is made to divert, there is no going back.
United was in the position of predicting and did the best they could. They are damned now because the girl was fine, but had they not diverted and the girl become violent, then they would have been damned for that decision. No one has a crystal ball.
Thing is, when the mom had a problem, she really should not have said that her daughter might become violent and she was unable to control/prevent it. We all live in the post 911 era. Given that mom travels a lot, she should know better. Sounds to me like mom was really tired after a trip across country to Disney and acted poorly.
And, I'm not convinced this is a training issue either. If someone tells the flight attendant that their child has the potential for violence, the triggers are present and they cannot prevent nor control their child, what more did the flight attendant need to know?
They need to be aware of the American with Disabilities Act which requires businesses open to the public to make their facilities and services available and usable by people with disabilities. I am aware that they need to balance accommodations with the safety of other passengers, but in this case, the girl was not causing any problems. The mom asked for warm food. That's not a crazy demand. It's a small request.
Kicking the girl off the plane because she *might* become disruptive is a huge violation of the ADA. The airline has a huge problem and is going to get their ass handed to them.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:30
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If i knew hot food would help calm my child I would purchase some right before getting on the plane (asking wherever I was ordering it from make it piping hot) and give it to her on the plane. Or I would pony up the cash and buy a first class seat. This isn't rocket science. IF the parent really knew her child she would be prepared. This isn't a special needs issue, it's a stupid parent issue.
Yeah, maybe, but haven't we all made bonehead parenting mistakes. My issue here is the mom's actions when she realized her daughter needed food. She informed the flight crew that her daughter had the potential to become violent, that the triggers for violence were present and that mom could not control her and prevent the violence. The flight crew then had to make decisions. From what I can see, the flight crew made two decisions: to take action to try to prevent the daughter from becoming agitated (or maybe more agitated - can't tell what her state was before the food), which was to give her food and to prevent injury or harm to passengers if the efforts to prevent problems were not successful (which was to divert). In this case, the girl was fine in the end, but once the decision is made to divert, there is no going back.
United was in the position of predicting and did the best they could. They are damned now because the girl was fine, but had they not diverted and the girl become violent, then they would have been damned for that decision. No one has a crystal ball.
Thing is, when the mom had a problem, she really should not have said that her daughter might become violent and she was unable to control/prevent it. We all live in the post 911 era. Given that mom travels a lot, she should know better. Sounds to me like mom was really tired after a trip across country to Disney and acted poorly.
And, I'm not convinced this is a training issue either. If someone tells the flight attendant that their child has the potential for violence, the triggers are present and they cannot prevent nor control their child, what more did the flight attendant need to know?
A 15 year old girl crying and scratching herself is not going to bring down a frigging plane. What this really has to do with is the power trip pilots and FAs are on these days.
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:22
Subject: Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
Anonymous wrote:If i knew hot food would help calm my child I would purchase some right before getting on the plane (asking wherever I was ordering it from make it piping hot) and give it to her on the plane. Or I would pony up the cash and buy a first class seat. This isn't rocket science. IF the parent really knew her child she would be prepared. This isn't a special needs issue, it's a stupid parent issue.
Yeah, maybe, but haven't we all made bonehead parenting mistakes. My issue here is the mom's actions when she realized her daughter needed food. She informed the flight crew that her daughter had the potential to become violent, that the triggers for violence were present and that mom could not control her and prevent the violence. The flight crew then had to make decisions. From what I can see, the flight crew made two decisions: to take action to try to prevent the daughter from becoming agitated (or maybe more agitated - can't tell what her state was before the food), which was to give her food and to prevent injury or harm to passengers if the efforts to prevent problems were not successful (which was to divert). In this case, the girl was fine in the end, but once the decision is made to divert, there is no going back.
United was in the position of predicting and did the best they could. They are damned now because the girl was fine, but had they not diverted and the girl become violent, then they would have been damned for that decision. No one has a crystal ball.
Thing is, when the mom had a problem, she really should not have said that her daughter might become violent and she was unable to control/prevent it. We all live in the post 911 era. Given that mom travels a lot, she should know better. Sounds to me like mom was really tired after a trip across country to Disney and acted poorly.
And, I'm not convinced this is a training issue either. If someone tells the flight attendant that their child has the potential for violence, the triggers are present and they cannot prevent nor control their child, what more did the flight attendant need to know?
Anonymous
05/12/2015 10:04
Subject: Re:Austistic teen kicked off plane.....
I don't have kids with ASD but with other developmental disorders. It's hard to see such ignorant posts from people who don't have a freakin clue how different it is to parent some of these kids. Given what I've seen on this thread and what I've experienced, I have no doubt the United flight attendants are in dire need of training. I agree with the PPs who noted that "people believe better parenting can fix autism". I hope United gets their ass handed to them.