jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When a government of a country condones the treatment of women, it's an issue.

Defenders of Islam never address that truth.

If a government contents mistreatment of women, that is an issue with that government. It is not an issue with the religion, particularly if the vast majority of the religion's adherents don't agree with the mistreatment.

There are Christians and Jews that practice FGM. Why are you not attacking those religions?

And when the government and religion are so intricately tied together that they operate as one, it's certainly a problem.

It would be a problem in THIS country and that is why the Constitution was written as it was, and why we have a series of checks and balances. It's the equivalent of the extreme religious right running this country - i.e. putting Westboro Baptist in charge.

Anonymous wrote:

When a government of a country condones the treatment of women, it's an issue.

Defenders of Islam never address that truth.

If a government contents mistreatment of women, that is an issue with that government. It is not an issue with the religion, particularly if the vast majority of the religion's adherents don't agree with the mistreatment.

There are Christians and Jews that practice FGM. Why are you not attacking those religions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, what is your take n female genital mutilation?

Is that "stupid" and fake as well?

http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/


Most married women in Egypt went through genital mutilation - health minister
Published time: May 11, 2015 17:17

"Some 92 percent of married women in Egypt underwent female genital mutilation, the country’s health minister said, citing a recent study. He added that the majority of girls face this ordeal when they are only nine to 12 years old.

The results of the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) were announced by Health Minister Adel Adawy at a Sunday conference dedicated to the study, Egyptian media reported. The poll was carried out last year and involved women aged 15 to 49.

According to the minister, only 31 percent of the operations are carried out by doctors, with most being performed by traditional midwives and “health barbers.”

The rate of female circumcision in rural places is extremely high – almost 95 percent while in urban areas it reaches 39.2 percent, the minister said."

It is barbarous and beyond disgusting.

It isn't rare, either. It isn't a lie or "stupid" to point out Islam mutilates women.

Can you point me to the text in "Islam" that promotes the mutilation of women? I'll wait...

Check the Hadiths.

Which Hadith, exactly? Please point me in the right direction. As a muslim woman, I'm curious to know which part of my religion mandates this and why islam is cutting off people's genitals.

The poster has no clue what they are saying.

It's mentioned for sure. This is where justification is found for the practice.
http://islamqa.info/en/427

What exactly have you read and understood from this link? Because as a practicing Muslim, islamQa is the last place I go when I have a question. And even they are saying its not required and the justification is possibly not even based on an authentic source soooo...

It might not be required, but it's certainly written. You can say the source isn't accurate, but that doesn't make it so.

IslamQA once had an entire thing written about the permissibility of eating mermaids. Someone asked "Are mermaids halal?" And the person wrote a nice long explanation to answer that mermaids are, in fact, halal. Just because something is written by someone somewhere does not make it accurate Most educated Muslims will not follow someone blindly without authentic proof (which means directly from the Quran or from the authentic Hadith narrations, backed up by the four schools of thought). We don't randomly follow online answers just because someone wrote them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And your absolute lack of compassion or care that millions of women and girls live under a religion that can and will kill them for writing poetry, daring to be raped, etc, as well as not allowing them basic human rights is stunning, and telling.

Do you really think this treatment of women is unique to Islam? It must be nice to live in your world, where nobody ever gets raped, justice is always served, and no woman is ever killed for petty reasons (or no reason).

When a government of a country condones the treatment of women, it's an issue.

Defenders of Islam never address that truth.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, what is your take n female genital mutilation?

Is that "stupid" and fake as well?

http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/


Most married women in Egypt went through genital mutilation - health minister
Published time: May 11, 2015 17:17

"Some 92 percent of married women in Egypt underwent female genital mutilation, the country’s health minister said, citing a recent study. He added that the majority of girls face this ordeal when they are only nine to 12 years old.

The results of the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) were announced by Health Minister Adel Adawy at a Sunday conference dedicated to the study, Egyptian media reported. The poll was carried out last year and involved women aged 15 to 49.

According to the minister, only 31 percent of the operationiis are carried out by doctors, with most being performed by traditional midwives and “health barbers.”

The rate of female circumcision in rural places is extremely high – almost 95 percent while in urban areas it reaches 39.2 percent, the minister said."

It is barbarous and beyond disgusting.

It isn't rare, either. It isn't a lie or "stupid" to point out Islam mutilates women.

Can you point me to the text in "Islam" that promotes the mutilation of women? I'll wait...

Check the Hadiths.

Which Hadith, exactly? Please point me in the right direction. As a muslim woman, I'm curious to know which part of my religion mandates this and why islam is cutting off people's genitals.

The poster has no clue what they are saying.

It's mentioned for sure. This is where justification is found for the practice.
http://islamqa.info/en/427

What exactly have you read and understood from this link? Because as a practicing Muslim, islamQa is the last place I go when I have a question. And even they are saying its not required and the justification is possibly not even based on an authentic source soooo...

Lol this is actually funny. For one, islamQA is such a mixed bag as it is written by anonymous people who respond to random questions submitted to them. It is a site that leans towards salafism and wahabism but what's even more laughable is that on the link the Pp shared they themselves say : 1. It is not obligatory
2. They cite A hadith that mentions female circumcision and also add that the hadith is Daeef which means WEAK lol . So this is your proof??? Oh boy, ridonculusss !!!

Can I ask what country you are here from and why you came here?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, what is your take n female genital mutilation?

Is that "stupid" and fake as well?

http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/


Most married women in Egypt went through genital mutilation - health minister
Published time: May 11, 2015 17:17

"Some 92 percent of married women in Egypt underwent female genital mutilation, the country’s health minister said, citing a recent study. He added that the majority of girls face this ordeal when they are only nine to 12 years old.

The results of the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) were announced by Health Minister Adel Adawy at a Sunday conference dedicated to the study, Egyptian media reported. The poll was carried out last year and involved women aged 15 to 49.

According to the minister, only 31 percent of the operations are carried out by doctors, with most being performed by traditional midwives and “health barbers.”

The rate of female circumcision in rural places is extremely high – almost 95 percent while in urban areas it reaches 39.2 percent, the minister said."

It is barbarous and beyond disgusting.

It isn't rare, either. It isn't a lie or "stupid" to point out Islam mutilates women.

Can you point me to the text in "Islam" that promotes the mutilation of women? I'll wait...

Check the Hadiths.

Which Hadith, exactly? Please point me in the right direction. As a muslim woman, I'm curious to know which part of my religion mandates this and why islam is cutting off people's genitals.

The poster has no clue what they are saying.

It's mentioned for sure. This is where justification is found for the practice.
http://islamqa.info/en/427

What exactly have you read and understood from this link? Because as a practicing Muslim, islamQa is the last place I go when I have a question. And even they are saying its not required and the justification is possibly not even based on an authentic source soooo...

It might not be required, but it's certainly written. You can say the source isn't accurate, but that doesn't make it so.

Anonymous wrote:And your absolute lack of compassion or care that millions of women and girls live under a religion that can and will kill them for writing poetry, daring to be raped, etc, as well as not allowing them basic human rights is stunning, and telling.

Do you really think this treatment of women is unique to Islam? It must be nice to live in your world, where nobody ever gets raped, justice is always served, and no woman is ever killed for petty reasons (or no reason).

I think the problem is most people just latch on to buzzwords tossed out by people like Pamela Gellar, but don't really understand the meaning or history behind it. If you really care about the victims of FGM, it doesn't really help if you don't know anything about it except "Islam did it to them!" Since the basis of this practice is not even in Islam, you could eradicate Islam from the place and the problem would still be there. How does that help anyone?

And for the person who lived in a village with Afghan girls, you seriously cannot paint an entire religion or even an entire country based on your limited experience. Most people in small villages in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan are not capable of reading or writing. They have no idea if what the imam or "learned man" at the local mosque is telling them what is actually in the Quran or if it is his own twisted interpretation of it (guess what it is most of the time?). I am Muslim, I have family in the US, Canada, Saudi, Pakistan, India, the UAE, Europe, pretty much all over the world and I have never heard of anything like what you are describing. My family is all Muslim and mostly female (I have a ton of girl cousins) and they are all happy, all wear hijab (by choice), have chosen their own husbands (some are pursuing grad degrees after marriage, some are waiting to complete their grad degrees before marriage). My male family is respectful, kind to their wives, mothers, sisters, active in their communities. I hope you understand the impact education and socioeconomic situations have. If you were to go to a big city and interact with normal people from a middle class family, you would have a completely different experience. I would not judge an entire religion as vast as Islam which is spread throughout the world based on one experience in one country. That is pretty foolish, in my opinion.

Anonymous wrote:
It's mentioned for sure. This is where justification is found for the practice.
http://islamqa.info/en/427

OP here. I'm amazed how far this thread has strayed from the topic.

I'm also amazed at this PP who posts this link as the justification for FGM, but apparently hasn't actually read it. There are so many "caveats" included in this article and the author even states that it is not mandatory. This is not a requirement of Islam and frankly, only observed in some locations. This posters is like the poster saying that the Mormon practice of door-to-door proselytizing is an inherent feature of Christianity.

Some of the quotes:

Ibn Qudamah (may Allah have mercy on him) said, in his book al-Mughni: "Circumcision is obligatory for men, and it is an honour for women, but it is not obligatory for them. This is the opinion of many scholars.

In this matter, it is wise to follow the interests of the female: if the clitoris is large, then part of it should be removed, otherwise it should be left alone.

A hadith on the topic of female circumcision has been attributed to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon Him), according to which he said: "Circumcision is a Sunnah for men, and an honour for women," but there is some debate as to the authenticity of this hadith.

How circumcision is to be performed is mentioned in the hadith narrated by Umm ‘Atiyah, may Allah be pleased with her, according to which a woman used to perform circumcisions in Madinah. The Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon Him) told her: "Do not abuse (i.e. do not go to extremes in circumcising); that is better for the woman and more liked by her husband."

So, Islam does not promote FGM. One Muslim Sheikh mentions it in a Q&A. Additionally, it isn't a requirement, it is very clearly optional and each individual woman can decide for herself. Additionally, there is the proscription that if the clitoris is small, that it should be left alone.

Pretty sketchy argument to use this as a large scale criticism of Islam in general.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, what is your take n female genital mutilation?

Is that "stupid" and fake as well?

http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/


Most married women in Egypt went through genital mutilation - health minister
Published time: May 11, 2015 17:17

"Some 92 percent of married women in Egypt underwent female genital mutilation, the country’s health minister said, citing a recent study. He added that the majority of girls face this ordeal when they are only nine to 12 years old.

The results of the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) were announced by Health Minister Adel Adawy at a Sunday conference dedicated to the study, Egyptian media reported. The poll was carried out last year and involved women aged 15 to 49.

According to the minister, only 31 percent of the operationiis are carried out by doctors, with most being performed by traditional midwives and “health barbers.”

The rate of female circumcision in rural places is extremely high – almost 95 percent while in urban areas it reaches 39.2 percent, the minister said."

It is barbarous and beyond disgusting.

It isn't rare, either. It isn't a lie or "stupid" to point out Islam mutilates women.

Can you point me to the text in "Islam" that promotes the mutilation of women? I'll wait...

Check the Hadiths.

Which Hadith, exactly? Please point me in the right direction. As a muslim woman, I'm curious to know which part of my religion mandates this and why islam is cutting off people's genitals.

The poster has no clue what they are saying.

It's mentioned for sure. This is where justification is found for the practice.
http://islamqa.info/en/427

What exactly have you read and understood from this link? Because as a practicing Muslim, islamQa is the last place I go when I have a question. And even they are saying its not required and the justification is possibly not even based on an authentic source soooo...

Lol this is actually funny. For one, islamQA is such a mixed bag as it is written by anonymous people who respond to random questions submitted to them. It is a site that leans towards salafism and wahabism but what's even more laughable is that on the link the Pp shared they themselves say : 1. It is not obligatory
2. They cite A hadith that mentions female circumcision and also add that the hadith is Daeef which means WEAK lol . So this is your proof??? Oh boy, ridonculusss !!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, what is your take n female genital mutilation?

Is that "stupid" and fake as well?

http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/


Most married women in Egypt went through genital mutilation - health minister
Published time: May 11, 2015 17:17

"Some 92 percent of married women in Egypt underwent female genital mutilation, the country’s health minister said, citing a recent study. He added that the majority of girls face this ordeal when they are only nine to 12 years old.

The results of the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) were announced by Health Minister Adel Adawy at a Sunday conference dedicated to the study, Egyptian media reported. The poll was carried out last year and involved women aged 15 to 49.

According to the minister, only 31 percent of the operations are carried out by doctors, with most being performed by traditional midwives and “health barbers.”

The rate of female circumcision in rural places is extremely high – almost 95 percent while in urban areas it reaches 39.2 percent, the minister said."

It is barbarous and beyond disgusting.

It isn't rare, either. It isn't a lie or "stupid" to point out Islam mutilates women.

Can you point me to the text in "Islam" that promotes the mutilation of women? I'll wait...

Check the Hadiths.

Which Hadith, exactly? Please point me in the right direction. As a muslim woman, I'm curious to know which part of my religion mandates this and why islam is cutting off people's genitals.

The poster has no clue what they are saying.

It's mentioned for sure. This is where justification is found for the practice.
http://islamqa.info/en/427

What exactly have you read and understood from this link? Because as a practicing Muslim, islamQa is the last place I go when I have a question. And even they are saying its not required and the justification is possibly not even based on an authentic source soooo...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, what is your take n female genital mutilation?

Is that "stupid" and fake as well?

http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/


Most married women in Egypt went through genital mutilation - health minister
Published time: May 11, 2015 17:17

"Some 92 percent of married women in Egypt underwent female genital mutilation, the country’s health minister said, citing a recent study. He added that the majority of girls face this ordeal when they are only nine to 12 years old.

The results of the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) were announced by Health Minister Adel Adawy at a Sunday conference dedicated to the study, Egyptian media reported. The poll was carried out last year and involved women aged 15 to 49.

According to the minister, only 31 percent of the operations are carried out by doctors, with most being performed by traditional midwives and “health barbers.”

The rate of female circumcision in rural places is extremely high – almost 95 percent while in urban areas it reaches 39.2 percent, the minister said."

It is barbarous and beyond disgusting.

It isn't rare, either. It isn't a lie or "stupid" to point out Islam mutilates women.

Can you point me to the text in "Islam" that promotes the mutilation of women? I'll wait...

Check the Hadiths.

Which Hadith, exactly? Please point me in the right direction. As a muslim woman, I'm curious to know which part of my religion mandates this and why islam is cutting off people's genitals.

The poster has no clue what they are saying.

It's mentioned for sure. This is where justification is found for the practice.
http://islamqa.info/en/427

Great, you picked a Saudi Salafi to represent Islam, and he says it's not obligatory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, what is your take n female genital mutilation?

Is that "stupid" and fake as well?

http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/


Most married women in Egypt went through genital mutilation - health minister
Published time: May 11, 2015 17:17

"Some 92 percent of married women in Egypt underwent female genital mutilation, the country’s health minister said, citing a recent study. He added that the majority of girls face this ordeal when they are only nine to 12 years old.

The results of the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) were announced by Health Minister Adel Adawy at a Sunday conference dedicated to the study, Egyptian media reported. The poll was carried out last year and involved women aged 15 to 49.

According to the minister, only 31 percent of the operations are carried out by doctors, with most being performed by traditional midwives and “health barbers.”

The rate of female circumcision in rural places is extremely high – almost 95 percent while in urban areas it reaches 39.2 percent, the minister said."

It is barbarous and beyond disgusting.

It isn't rare, either. It isn't a lie or "stupid" to point out Islam mutilates women.

Can you point me to the text in "Islam" that promotes the mutilation of women? I'll wait...

Check the Hadiths.

Which Hadith, exactly? Please point me in the right direction. As a muslim woman, I'm curious to know which part of my religion mandates this and why islam is cutting off people's genitals.

The poster has no clue what they are saying.

It's mentioned for sure. This is where justification is found for the practice.
http://islamqa.info/en/427

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, what is your take n female genital mutilation?

Is that "stupid" and fake as well?

http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/


Most married women in Egypt went through genital mutilation - health minister
Published time: May 11, 2015 17:17

"Some 92 percent of married women in Egypt underwent female genital mutilation, the country’s health minister said, citing a recent study. He added that the majority of girls face this ordeal when they are only nine to 12 years old.

The results of the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) were announced by Health Minister Adel Adawy at a Sunday conference dedicated to the study, Egyptian media reported. The poll was carried out last year and involved women aged 15 to 49.

According to the minister, only 31 percent of the operations are carried out by doctors, with most being performed by traditional midwives and “health barbers.”

The rate of female circumcision in rural places is extremely high – almost 95 percent while in urban areas it reaches 39.2 percent, the minister said."

It is barbarous and beyond disgusting.

It isn't rare, either. It isn't a lie or "stupid" to point out Islam mutilates women.

Can you point me to the text in "Islam" that promotes the mutilation of women? I'll wait...

Check the Hadiths.

Which Hadith, exactly? Please point me in the right direction. As a muslim woman, I'm curious to know which part of my religion mandates this and why islam is cutting off people's genitals.

The poster has no clue what they are saying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, what is your take n female genital mutilation?

Is that "stupid" and fake as well?

http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/


Most married women in Egypt went through genital mutilation - health minister
Published time: May 11, 2015 17:17

"Some 92 percent of married women in Egypt underwent female genital mutilation, the country’s health minister said, citing a recent study. He added that the majority of girls face this ordeal when they are only nine to 12 years old.

The results of the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) were announced by Health Minister Adel Adawy at a Sunday conference dedicated to the study, Egyptian media reported. The poll was carried out last year and involved women aged 15 to 49.

According to the minister, only 31 percent of the operations are carried out by doctors, with most being performed by traditional midwives and “health barbers.”

The rate of female circumcision in rural places is extremely high – almost 95 percent while in urban areas it reaches 39.2 percent, the minister said."

It is barbarous and beyond disgusting.

It isn't rare, either. It isn't a lie or "stupid" to point out Islam mutilates women.

Can you point me to the text in "Islam" that promotes the mutilation of women? I'll wait...

So why are almost all women in Egypt genitally mutilated?

I know, they all went on a walk together en masse and fell on the same sharp object, over and over and over and over and over...

If you are claiming that Islam is responsible for FGM, wouldn't the more relevant question be "why is FGM only found in African countries?" What about the millions of Muslim women in Indonesia? India? Pakistan? Arabia? Balkans? Wouldn't all of the devout Muslim women go through FGM? So myopic...