Anonymous
Post 04/15/2015 16:40     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am woman in my mid-40s, never married, no kids, straight. Happy. Dating a 42-year-old single divorced dad with a 7-year-old son.

In my 20s, I was a special education teacher, middle school. I was getting paid $400 every two weeks for a "part time" teaching position. I also taught part time at a college, and I eventually left the field.

However, I really enjoyed being around kids. When I had my 20-minute lunch, I would sometimes:

- Monitor the cafeteria
- Suction the breathing tube of a child in a wheelchair
- Return phone calls from parents

My point is, I made a lot of sacrifices to be a teacher, working and putting myself through school, making no money in return.

Today, I have advanced degrees and I am in a different career field, that is more lucrative. It wounds me deeply when women my age look down on me and call me selfish for not having children of my own. I know that biological parents aren't always the best at actually raising children. Most parents on this forum are probably excellent parents. It isn't right, however, to feel superior to women who have never had children of our own.

I have noticed this disturbing trend, where mothers especially are very defensive about the importance of a "job" that women have been doing since the beginning of time. I think it is the difference in income inequality in some cities, where young college educated people are becoming bitter and disillusioned at not having as much money as they see others have. So, they want others to pay for their kids, maybe financially, maybe through SNAP or Obamacare subsidies, because they think they are continuing civilization for the rest of us. That's warped.


you sound bitter. I'm sorry that you made so many sacrifices and don't feel that you were rewarded in kind. And I don't think you are selfish for not having children, I think that everyone should make their own choices. But you do sound bitter.

To your point about the "disturbing trend" you see among mothers: staying at home with kids, esp. when they are young, IS a job. Just one that isn't paid and doesn't come with social security, health insurance, or other financial remuneration. Think of it this way, if a parent has a paid job, then need to pay someone to watch their children, take them to the docs, etc. If a parent is a high earner and works long hours, they usually pay someone to help with the household chores as well like cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc. Just because (primarily) women have been raising children since the beginning of time without pay, does not make the job less important or demanding. And I know plenty of stay at home fathers too. These days, it is usually a fluid arrangement, with parents staying home, working part time, switching roles, etc.


There was no bitterness in her post.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2015 16:14     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:I am woman in my mid-40s, never married, no kids, straight. Happy. Dating a 42-year-old single divorced dad with a 7-year-old son.

In my 20s, I was a special education teacher, middle school. I was getting paid $400 every two weeks for a "part time" teaching position. I also taught part time at a college, and I eventually left the field.

However, I really enjoyed being around kids. When I had my 20-minute lunch, I would sometimes:

- Monitor the cafeteria
- Suction the breathing tube of a child in a wheelchair
- Return phone calls from parents

My point is, I made a lot of sacrifices to be a teacher, working and putting myself through school, making no money in return.

Today, I have advanced degrees and I am in a different career field, that is more lucrative. It wounds me deeply when women my age look down on me and call me selfish for not having children of my own. I know that biological parents aren't always the best at actually raising children. Most parents on this forum are probably excellent parents. It isn't right, however, to feel superior to women who have never had children of our own.

I have noticed this disturbing trend, where mothers especially are very defensive about the importance of a "job" that women have been doing since the beginning of time. I think it is the difference in income inequality in some cities, where young college educated people are becoming bitter and disillusioned at not having as much money as they see others have. So, they want others to pay for their kids, maybe financially, maybe through SNAP or Obamacare subsidies, because they think they are continuing civilization for the rest of us. That's warped.


you sound bitter. I'm sorry that you made so many sacrifices and don't feel that you were rewarded in kind. And I don't think you are selfish for not having children, I think that everyone should make their own choices. But you do sound bitter.

To your point about the "disturbing trend" you see among mothers: staying at home with kids, esp. when they are young, IS a job. Just one that isn't paid and doesn't come with social security, health insurance, or other financial remuneration. Think of it this way, if a parent has a paid job, then need to pay someone to watch their children, take them to the docs, etc. If a parent is a high earner and works long hours, they usually pay someone to help with the household chores as well like cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc. Just because (primarily) women have been raising children since the beginning of time without pay, does not make the job less important or demanding. And I know plenty of stay at home fathers too. These days, it is usually a fluid arrangement, with parents staying home, working part time, switching roles, etc.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2015 16:04     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:I am woman in my mid-40s, never married, no kids, straight. Happy. Dating a 42-year-old single divorced dad with a 7-year-old son.

In my 20s, I was a special education teacher, middle school. I was getting paid $400 every two weeks for a "part time" teaching position. I also taught part time at a college, and I eventually left the field.

However, I really enjoyed being around kids. When I had my 20-minute lunch, I would sometimes:

- Monitor the cafeteria
- Suction the breathing tube of a child in a wheelchair
- Return phone calls from parents

My point is, I made a lot of sacrifices to be a teacher, working and putting myself through school, making no money in return.

Today, I have advanced degrees and I am in a different career field, that is more lucrative. It wounds me deeply when women my age look down on me and call me selfish for not having children of my own. I know that biological parents aren't always the best at actually raising children. Most parents on this forum are probably excellent parents. It isn't right, however, to feel superior to women who have never had children of our own.

I have noticed this disturbing trend, where mothers especially are very defensive about the importance of a "job" that women have been doing since the beginning of time. I think it is the difference in income inequality in some cities, where young college educated people are becoming bitter and disillusioned at not having as much money as they see others have. So, they want others to pay for their kids, maybe financially, maybe through SNAP or Obamacare subsidies, because they think they are continuing civilization for the rest of us. That's warped.


You sound like a very nurturing person. Why did you never have children?
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2015 16:01     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
I am woman in my mid-40s, never married, no kids, straight. Happy. Dating a 42-year-old single divorced dad with a 7-year-old son.

In my 20s, I was a special education teacher, middle school. I was getting paid $400 every two weeks for a "part time" teaching position. I also taught part time at a college, and I eventually left the field.

However, I really enjoyed being around kids. When I had my 20-minute lunch, I would sometimes:

- Monitor the cafeteria
- Suction the breathing tube of a child in a wheelchair
- Return phone calls from parents

My point is, I made a lot of sacrifices to be a teacher, working and putting myself through school, making no money in return.

Today, I have advanced degrees and I am in a different career field, that is more lucrative. It wounds me deeply when women my age look down on me and call me selfish for not having children of my own. I know that biological parents aren't always the best at actually raising children. Most parents on this forum are probably excellent parents. It isn't right, however, to feel superior to women who have never had children of our own.

I have noticed this disturbing trend, where mothers especially are very defensive about the importance of a "job" that women have been doing since the beginning of time. I think it is the difference in income inequality in some cities, where young college educated people are becoming bitter and disillusioned at not having as much money as they see others have. So, they want others to pay for their kids, maybe financially, maybe through SNAP or Obamacare subsidies, because they think they are continuing civilization for the rest of us. That's warped.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2015 00:35     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
New poster.
I used to babysit my nephew and though it was no big deal (tiring but totally doable).
Once I had my own, it hit me hard.
Now when he is 5, I am almost back to normal.
It's not that bad if you only have one and once he or she is over 4-5.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 23:21     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
OP -- I have three kids but I had them in my late 30's so I had a nice long time of living the child-free life.

I do envy you in a way. My life has changed significantly. Although I did work a lot of hours before I had kids, I also could go out to eat or on a hike at the spur of the moment. I miss that and I miss quiet weekends.

I always wanted to have a family and I'm glad I do - but it is a different lifestyle. It is often exhausting, esp. in the early years. Also, it is expensive. Instead of two plane tickets, we have to get 5 plane tickets. The cost of kid activities is super spendy too.

My sister and her husband are child free and they go to lots of social activities and lots of concerts and shows and vacations. I envy them but I think they envy us sometimes. They are missing out on being a mom and dad and doing fun family things. It is a trade off.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 23:09     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:I also just want to say that although unlike you I will never again go to sleep at night without wondering about my children, and I'll never stop living with the fear that bad things will one day happen to them and I can't stop them, my children are so much more than the things I will never have because of them. They made me the person I was supposed to be. Having kids deepens your compassion because suddenly in every human you see the possibility of that being your child. You know they too had a mother. You look at your child doing something and it blows you away and you realize wow, if I feel this about MY kid, my mom felt that way about ME. Their love is unconditional which makes you work that much harder to earn it, so they can be proud to say of you "That's MY MOM!" I would not be half the woman I am today if I had never had my kids. I can't imagine trading that in for brunch and some extra sleep.


+1,000,000. I get not wanting kids because you are devoted to your art, or are a war zone journalist, or just recognize that you would be a bad parent. I have to say I am always mystified that people will give up the transcendent experience of having a child over sleeping in, or spontaneous trips to Vegas. But its your life OP - you can decide not to have kids because your horoscope tells you not to - no one else's opinion really matters. But just go in fully accepting that this is a decision that you have a very limited window to undo, unlike jobs, choice of husband, or pretty much anything else. If you want a real perspective, don't watch someone else's kids - go talk to women in their 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s who are childless. Ask them what their lives have been like. Ask them what they do now. You may talk to them and think "This is how I want to live, and who I want to be." Or they may show you a very different side of being childless. Who knows. But it will give you a lot more info than a week with your sister's kids.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 21:37     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's not a f-ing competition. People make decisions based on what's best for them, not what others think is best for them.
You made your decision, good for you, and she's making hers. Doesn't make either of you wrong or better than anyone else... unless you're one of those people who assumes people with children are just better than the rest of us.


Those who have children are investing in the future of the human race.

Those who don't have children are simply parasites on the people who made the effort to raise children in the past.

Those who have children care about others.

Those who don't have children only care for themselves.

The moral distinction between the two groups is crystal clear.


This has to be a joke, right? You do realize that the world is overpopulated and it is actually the reverse of what you stated? People who are having large families are actually the ones who I would consider environmentally irresponsible and are the parasites that are depleting the worlds resources. Educate yourself.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 21:31     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's not a f-ing competition. People make decisions based on what's best for them, not what others think is best for them.
You made your decision, good for you, and she's making hers. Doesn't make either of you wrong or better than anyone else... unless you're one of those people who assumes people with children are just better than the rest of us.


Those who have children are investing in the future of the human race.

Those who don't have children are simply parasites on the people who made the effort to raise children in the past.

Those who have children care about others.

Those who don't have children only care for themselves.

The moral distinction between the two groups is crystal clear.


Wow. Is this person serious? This is really extreme-hopefully it's a troll. I'm a childless (sort of by choice, sort of by circumstance) woman in her early 40's. I have a teenaged mentee who I meet with on a weekly basis, my husband and I are social workers, we're close with my sister's kids and we also babysit periodically for other family and friends. I like kids and if things were different I might have had them but for many reasons I didn't. I think that it's good that there are childless/childfree people in the world in addition to those with kids. It takes a village and those of us who are caring people (both with children and childfree/childless) contribute in a positive way. Those of us who are truly selfish (and there are both selfish childfree/childless people as well as selfish people with kids) don't.

I have more energy for other people's kids because I don't have them myself. If I had kids I would definitely not have the time or energy to mentor nor would I be as close to my nieces. My time and money would be primarily invested in my own children. For the most part, I'm okay with my decision not to have children-I just wish that more people were accepting of this choice and not so quick to judge. My reasons for not having children are complicated-in my case, it's not about wanting more time to surf the internet or watch TV lol-and the assumptions many make about childless/childfree people bother me. Yes, there are some childfree people out there who hate kids, are narcissistic, etc. but most of us are not like that.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 20:32     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's not a f-ing competition. People make decisions based on what's best for them, not what others think is best for them.
You made your decision, good for you, and she's making hers. Doesn't make either of you wrong or better than anyone else... unless you're one of those people who assumes people with children are just better than the rest of us.


Those who have children are investing in the future of the human race.

Those who don't have children are simply parasites on the people who made the effort to raise children in the past.

Those who have children care about others.

Those who don't have children only care for themselves.

The moral distinction between the two groups is crystal clear.


That may be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. People without kids are parasites????? I know plenty of people who don't have kids that do a lot more for society than you probably do. Many people volunteer their time and money to help other people out. Many uncles and aunts help raise their nieces and nephews both financially and emotionally. Umm Oprah, though she is rich, does a whole hell of a lot more than you'll ever do for many people including starting a school in South Africa, but hey....she's a parasite huh? Your stupidity is rather sad.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 19:28     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You are basing your value as a person on the fact that you have children.
Congratulations to your body for performing a basic biological function.
Ou must be so proud. Is that the only thing you've accomplished in your life?


You must be very proud that you are too stupid to distinguish between the basic biological function of having children and the decidedly non-biological function of raising children. Congratulations on being so arrogant that you think "only" doing the latter thing corectly is a negligible accomplishment, when in fact it is the most important thing that any human being can do.


It is actually a biological urge to "raise" children. Really? You really think that?
That's why you don't drop a newborn on the lawn and walk away.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 19:20     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh stop trying to shame the OP, Carl Sagan. Yes, many people raise children and do all those things. But not everyone and raising children is not for everyone. OP is trying to say, some people are better off not having children and if they had really experienced some of those things might have made a better decision not to have children. Just because everyone else does something, does not mean that it is right for the individual.


She should be ashamed of herself. Anyone who does not have children for such puny, weak-minded reasons is a total failure as a human being.

What is she doing with her time now? Watching TV and surfing the web in her pristine house? Yaay for her. She can look back on that from her deathbed with great satisfaction. Too bad there won't be any children or grandchildren to comfort her.


Are you jealous or just a total b*tch all the time?


Why would I be jealous of her?

She doesn't have kids -- and I do.

She lacks the mental and moral courage to take on the challenges of raising children -- and I don't.

She is obsessed with her money and her possessions -- and I'm not.


Your envy is showing. Thought you should know.


Your stupidity is showing. Thought you should know.

But keep doubling down on the idiotic claim that I "envy" or am "jealous" of the barren narcissist, it only amuses me.


She breeds and smokes crack!! Bet you can do it simultaneously.
Why do you keep coming back here? If you have such a wonderful life, why are you trolling a post (obsessively) to argue with someone who makes different life choices? Go raise your children.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 19:18     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You are basing your value as a person on the fact that you have children.
Congratulations to your body for performing a basic biological function.
Ou must be so proud. Is that the only thing you've accomplished in your life?


You must be very proud that you are too stupid to distinguish between the basic biological function of having children and the decidedly non-biological function of raising children. Congratulations on being so arrogant that you think "only" doing the latter thing corectly is a negligible accomplishment, when in fact it is the most important thing that any human being can do.


You are too stupid to argue with. Seriously.
I'm embarrassed for you because you're too daft to realize it.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 18:58     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh stop trying to shame the OP, Carl Sagan. Yes, many people raise children and do all those things. But not everyone and raising children is not for everyone. OP is trying to say, some people are better off not having children and if they had really experienced some of those things might have made a better decision not to have children. Just because everyone else does something, does not mean that it is right for the individual.


She should be ashamed of herself. Anyone who does not have children for such puny, weak-minded reasons is a total failure as a human being.

What is she doing with her time now? Watching TV and surfing the web in her pristine house? Yaay for her. She can look back on that from her deathbed with great satisfaction. Too bad there won't be any children or grandchildren to comfort her.


Are you jealous or just a total b*tch all the time?


Why would I be jealous of her?

She doesn't have kids -- and I do.

She lacks the mental and moral courage to take on the challenges of raising children -- and I don't.

She is obsessed with her money and her possessions -- and I'm not.


Your envy is showing. Thought you should know.


Your stupidity is showing. Thought you should know.

But keep doubling down on the idiotic claim that I "envy" or am "jealous" of the barren narcissist, it only amuses me.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2015 18:56     Subject: Every couple should spend a week with children before having a family.
Anonymous wrote:
You are basing your value as a person on the fact that you have children.
Congratulations to your body for performing a basic biological function.
Ou must be so proud. Is that the only thing you've accomplished in your life?


You must be very proud that you are too stupid to distinguish between the basic biological function of having children and the decidedly non-biological function of raising children. Congratulations on being so arrogant that you think "only" doing the latter thing corectly is a negligible accomplishment, when in fact it is the most important thing that any human being can do.