Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think rezoning or busing children around is a solution, because to me the parents/guardians is the key to the children's success. My family came here from a poor country in Asia. When we came, none of us was able to speak nor understand any English. My mother worked as a helper in the kitchen for a restaurant that was owned by a man from our country. My farther worked as a janitor. They were always busy, never had time nor any ability to help us with homework. However, they always reminded us that we have to study hard in order to have a better future. I when to Falls Church High School in FCPS which had very high number of low income kids. I always hung out with kids from my country because we could understand each other and since we were all new to the country. Our friends' parents also expected them to do good in schools. So we helped each other learning and learning. After all those difficult years, all of us finished college and have good jobs. So my point here is that doesn't matter what the county does to help these low income or new immigrant students, their parents have to value the education, and remind them to work hard in school in order to be succeed. They don't need to be near rich kids to do better. Some rich kids also have problems of their own too. By the way, I'm a W school parent.

No, they don't NEED to. But it sure helps.

Actually it doesn't help. It helps the rich kids be a little less of entitled assholes. But it does not help the poor kids.

This study says otherwise.

http://tcf.org/work/education/detail/housing-policy-is-school-policy/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think rezoning or busing children around is a solution, because to me the parents/guardians is the key to the children's success. My family came here from a poor country in Asia. When we came, none of us was able to speak nor understand any English. My mother worked as a helper in the kitchen for a restaurant that was owned by a man from our country. My farther worked as a janitor. They were always busy, never had time nor any ability to help us with homework. However, they always reminded us that we have to study hard in order to have a better future. I when to Falls Church High School in FCPS which had very high number of low income kids. I always hung out with kids from my country because we could understand each other and since we were all new to the country. Our friends' parents also expected them to do good in schools. So we helped each other learning and learning. After all those difficult years, all of us finished college and have good jobs. So my point here is that doesn't matter what the county does to help these low income or new immigrant students, their parents have to value the education, and remind them to work hard in school in order to be succeed. They don't need to be near rich kids to do better. Some rich kids also have problems of their own too. By the way, I'm a W school parent.

No, they don't NEED to. But it sure helps.

Actually it doesn't help. It helps the rich kids be a little less of entitled assholes. But it does not help the poor kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:those who complain about not being treated equal in terms of schools, housing etc. never mentioned the inequality in tax paying.

I agree and the illegals don't pay a dime and use up so much of the taxes towards ESOL, FARMS, lower class ratios. But yes, let's do more.

Oh, here we go. Can't people just be poor, or just recent immigrants? Must they be stuck with the epithet "illegal"? People on these threads are so hateful sometimes.

Oh that is right, we don't have any illegal immigrants breaking federal laws and expecting free daycare in our public school system. My bad. They are all recent immigrants. Is that a new liberal term?

You know that illegals (as you so crassly call them) pay taxes. Oh wait you sound really ignorant, so you probably don't know, BTW... they do pay taxes.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think rezoning or busing children around is a solution, because to me the parents/guardians is the key to the children's success. My family came here from a poor country in Asia. When we came, none of us was able to speak nor understand any English. My mother worked as a helper in the kitchen for a restaurant that was owned by a man from our country. My farther worked as a janitor. They were always busy, never had time nor any ability to help us with homework. However, they always reminded us that we have to study hard in order to have a better future. I when to Falls Church High School in FCPS which had very high number of low income kids. I always hung out with kids from my country because we could understand each other and since we were all new to the country. Our friends' parents also expected them to do good in schools. So we helped each other learning and learning. After all those difficult years, all of us finished college and have good jobs. So my point here is that doesn't matter what the county does to help these low income or new immigrant students, their parents have to value the education, and remind them to work hard in school in order to be succeed. They don't need to be near rich kids to do better. Some rich kids also have problems of their own too. By the way, I'm a W school parent.

No, they don't NEED to. But it sure helps.

Anonymous wrote:

It's not the education it's the lack of intellectually motivated peer group that is objectionable. The school district sets a county wide curriculum and all schools follow it. It's the implementation that differs and the implementation differs because of the student population that the material is presented to. For example, let's say Hamlet is a required read for all 11th graders in MCPS. One school might cover the book in 2 weeks and have a multiple choice exam at the end. Another school might cover the material over 4 weeks, require small group discussions, essays, and class presentations to invoke thoughtful discussion. The material as manadated to be covered is met by both schools. The education that the school board can control is the same. The insights and in depth learning that comes from being surrounded by like motivated peers is not something that the school board controls through its curriculum. For the school system, the curriculum is the education. The education is the same across all schools.

This is like saying that if you go to a fancy restaurant for dinner, the dinner is the same if they put you in the best table in the restaurant vs. the table next to the bathrooms.

It also completely overlooks the proven fact that if you put poor kids in a non-poor school, the poor kids benefit from that intellectually-motivated peer group. That's the whole point. A poor kid does better in a non-poor school than in a high-poverty school. That's why economic segregation is bad for poor kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because if the education that kids get is the same at every school, why would people care whether their kid goes to this school, that school, or the other school?

Because my kids can walk to their W school.

Because busing kids who can walk to school is environmentally irresponsible, a setback to the fight against childhood obesity, and a large additional cost to the county. Because academic performance improves for teenagers when there is a later start time, and busing will require them to wake up even earlier. Because I feel safer knowing that my child can walk home if there is a school emergency or if he misses his bus. Because I know many of my teenager's friends who live in the neighborhood.

Well, no. That's begging the question, because there are lots of elementary schools in the county that kids can walk to, that are not in the Whitman/Wootton/Walter Johnson/Churchill clusters. Why do you live where your kids can walk to a Whitman/Wootton/Walter Johnson/Churchill cluster school, instead of somewhere else, where your kids can walk to a non-Whitman/Wootton/Walter Johnson/Churchill cluster school?

And while I agree that busing kids who can walk to school is environmentally irresponsible, the fact is that MCPS is already doing this, all over the place. MCPS is busing a large number of kids who live within walking distance because it is not safe for them to walk. This is called "hazard busing".

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/transportation/rules/riding.aspx#q1

If you're opposed to school busing on environmental grounds, then the fight you should be fighting is to make it safe for students to walk to school.

http://www.gazette.net/article/20121106/NEWS/711069941/1123/students-family-and-officials-gather-at-vigil-for-germantown-youth&t&template=gazette

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:those who complain about not being treated equal in terms of schools, housing etc. never mentioned the inequality in tax paying.

I agree and the illegals don't pay a dime and use up so much of the taxes towards ESOL, FARMS, lower class ratios. But yes, let's do more.

Oh, here we go. Can't people just be poor, or just recent immigrants? Must they be stuck with the epithet "illegal"? People on these threads are so hateful sometimes.

Oh that is right, we don't have any illegal immigrants breaking federal laws and expecting free daycare in our public school system. My bad. They are all recent immigrants. Is that a new liberal term?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If the wealthy people chose other educational opportunities for their children, they would probably either be a different public school system or a private school. I'm not sure you can pass a law that mandates people to use the public education system. Across MCPS, every child follows the same cirriculum so it's hard to say that a child in one school district isn't getting the same education as another. I don't think people are arguing about the actual cirriculum that is provided (2.0 aside) but it's the other things that the school district really can't control--- parent involvement, peer groups, motivations, family values that place a priority on education. Busing or forced integratin would be one way to address these issues, but it won't work if one side has the ability (money) to opt out.

First of all, all of the schools are in one school district: Montgomery County Public Schools.

Second of all, it's actually very easy to say this. It's so easy to say this, in fact, that people are saying it every single day -- literally -- on DCUM. In fact, people are saying it right here on this thread. Because if the education that kids get is the same at every school, why would people care whether their kid goes to this school, that school, or the other school?

The education is the same. Same teachers, same curriculum. Actually even better teacher/student ratio at focus schools. Free meals too. What is different? The kids and families. Many don't speak english, many don't value an education, many are not involved in the school, many are disruptive, many do poor on tests. That is what parents look for in the school. When I look at the "at a glance" sheets, I look at the test scores, the suspensions/police activity, the size of the school, I checked how active the PTA was. I would gladly be a white minority at an active school where kids are meeting test scores.

What those "poor" schools need are parent involvement. They have to look within themselves to make change. Adding a bunch of "rich white" kids won't make your own child do any better if you aren't helping them. It won't bring people to learn English, to try and get involved, help as much as they can. It just is not a priority no matter how much or little they work.

I know plenty of low income people of color who value education . Where can I get my kid bussed to where people don't value ignorance and stereotyping?
Some of you are sickening to say the least!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:those who complain about not being treated equal in terms of schools, housing etc. never mentioned the inequality in tax paying.

I agree and the illegals don't pay a dime and use up so much of the taxes towards ESOL, FARMS, lower class ratios. But yes, let's do more.

Oh, here we go. Can't people just be poor, or just recent immigrants? Must they be stuck with the epithet "illegal"? People on these threads are so hateful sometimes.

Anonymous wrote:those who complain about not being treated equal in terms of schools, housing etc. never mentioned the inequality in tax paying.

I agree and the illegals don't pay a dime and use up so much of the taxes towards ESOL, FARMS, lower class ratios. But yes, let's do more.

And 20:15 is correct.

I heard an administrator from Baltimore public schools ask a rockstar panel of experts why minority children of newly arrived immigrants excel in school while AAs and Latinos with parents born in the US struggle (she actually said fail), and the panel squirmed. They were mostly white and probably felt it wouldn't be PC to blame the parents and highlight the lack of valuing education.

Wonder if mcps has stats on African kids vs. AAs?

PSA:

MoCo has had a very progressive affordable housing initiative by law which has been considered a model across the nation. MPDUs are part of it. And developers are required to include affordable housing units in their developments.

Betcha didn't know those units often aren't sold and get diverted to homeless service providers. So, you have some formerly homeless individuals living in swanky condos up and down Rockville Pike. But I digress.

Yes, housing policies back in the day created this situation (big houses in wealthy areas with very few apartment complexes vs. a gazillion garden apartments in the Wheaton, Glenmont and Aspen Hill areas where you have a plethora of Title I schools with very few white kids). We have had an aggressive affordable housing program in the county for decades, but it only affects NEW construction. Thus, "It is what it is."

And how do I know that people love Weller Road Elementary? Because I know families who go there, and they love it. I know someone who moved from DC to that area specifically to be near family and friends and have a big Spanish speaking support system in their neighborhood (replete with businesses and churches that cater to them). Not a paternalistic statement; rather, a fact.

Bussing won't ever happen. Never ever. Too costly. And quite frankly, it doesn't net the results you think it will. Dig a little deeper into the research, data and literature and you will see that low income minority children do better when they LIVE in higher income areas and are surrounded by stable two parent families and essentially interact with those people at school and in the community (after school activities, church, etc) regularly. They grow up in a solidly middle-upper class environment, adopt those cultural norms, the educational and classroom behavioral bar is set higher, and they achieve. Not: making sure the housing is stable as are other critical items like food and safety are essential. This isn't rocket science.

In short: if all the kids in MS and HS are expected to go onto college, then the majority of kids succeed. When attending a school where there are big groups of kids who aren't expected to succeed and other routes are accepted (teen pregnancy, dropping out, dealing, etc) then more kids fail. Duh.

If I see anymore federal or private funding going towards more studies to demonstrate what data already supports and what teachers, social workers, homeless service providers and policy wonks already know, I think my head will explode.

Invest millions on bussing blacks and Latinos to white schools if you want, but you won't get the results you hope to. Sorry.

Continue from PP 20:15. We live in the W school because my DH works in Silver Spring and I worked in Fairfax so we have to live near the border.

I don't think rezoning or busing children around is a solution, because to me the parents/guardians is the key to the children's success. My family came here from a poor country in Asia. When we came, none of us was able to speak nor understand any English. My mother worked as a helper in the kitchen for a restaurant that was owned by a man from our country. My farther worked as a janitor. They were always busy, never had time nor any ability to help us with homework. However, they always reminded us that we have to study hard in order to have a better future. I when to Falls Church High School in FCPS which had very high number of low income kids. I always hung out with kids from my country because we could understand each other and since we were all new to the country. Our friends' parents also expected them to do good in schools. So we helped each other learning and learning. After all those difficult years, all of us finished college and have good jobs. So my point here is that doesn't matter what the county does to help these low income or new immigrant students, their parents have to value the education, and remind them to work hard in school in order to be succeed. They don't need to be near rich kids to do better. Some rich kids also have problems of their own too. By the way, I'm a W school parent.