Anonymous
02/21/2014 20:57
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:We never see the gardeners, for example. Can you imagine what it takes to trim and groom that place?
They had that character who was a gardener - the one Violet thought was stealing from her. And Moseley's father also gardens.
Anonymous
02/21/2014 20:56
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
We never see the gardeners, for example. Can you imagine what it takes to trim and groom that place?
Anonymous
02/21/2014 20:30
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anna was the maid for all the daughters before Mary got married.
Whatever happened to the Abbey having actual maid staff? All of the downstairs characters are fairly elite service staff (butler, housekeeper, ladies' maids, valets, footmen, etc.) - what about the people who wash the dishes and do the laundry and empty the chamber pots and clean the fireplaces? In Season 1, Daisy was a "house maid" and had tasks like that (and wasn't allowed in rooms at the same time as upstairs residents), but then she got promoted to the kitchen and we haven't seen real service staff since.
There's background staff, but you just don't get to meet them. Look closely, you'll see under-maids, hall boys, etc.
At dinner, the lower servants don't get to have their dinner at the same time as the upper servants.
Also -- Thomas has been referring to layoffs, etc. Domestic servant numbers were declining steadily from the pre-war period through the 20s and 30s, what with all the labor-saving devices, the financial crises hitting the great houses, and competent domestic staff starting to work in the factories, etc. Of course the Depression will put a stake through the heart of most great houses.
Even though this is true, the Downton staff is bloated and doesn't show housemaids etc. and in the past everyone took their meals at the same time. The writers just weren't thinking logistically.
Thank you 15:24! I brought this point up before on a previous DA thread. It just really bugs me. I know the real DA is in incredible disrepair as are many historical houses like it b/c cost wise it's incredibly expensive to keep up. Maid service and household repairs definitely went by the wayside as time marched on, but no way in reality would you have 2 or 3 staff just to serve dinner and not have a scullery maid or two!
Repeat after me: it's a TV show.
I read an interview with Julian Fellowews where he indicated that they are very aware that they aren't showing the full number of staff that would be at a house the size of Downtown. But it's just not logistically possible to have that many actors inthe time allowed, plus it makes it just too complicated for viewers to keep up with.
Anonymous
02/21/2014 19:26
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The Cora's brother thing is kind of weird. Like was there a reason behind it all??
This is some thread that is just left hanging, out there, so there has got to be some tie-in, somehow. Maybe the Americans will descend on the estate because they have been bankrupt (but didn't the situation work out ok and that's why Lord Grantham returned?)
As of now, I don't know why they made a big deal out of the trip to America. It only advanced one story line and that is getting Thomas suspicious about why he got to go to America instead of Bates. That was a lot of footage/airtime just to further that and really unnecessary because Thomas could have been suspicious anyways--lord knows Anna was acting so weirdly. So I think there must be some other reason --some surprise--that comes out of that American trip story line that we don't know about.
Anonymous
02/21/2014 19:16
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:The Cora's brother thing is kind of weird. Like was there a reason behind it all??
It seems Cora's brother is a conniver and has that American can do spirit. I think he could help BAtes
Anonymous
02/21/2014 17:31
Subject: Re:Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How do you pronounce "valet"? The characters say it with a hard "T" but I thought it was pronounced without the emphasis on that letter.
In American english we say "valey". I believe Brits say "valeT"
I don't know...I think it may depend on the meaning. That is to say, even in America, "valAY" is the guy who brings your car around, and "valeT" is your Mr. Bates.
Anonymous
02/21/2014 17:13
Subject: Re:Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
http://www.updown.org.uk/oddsandends/prices.pdf
Granted it is from an Upstairs Downstairs article in 1974, but it's relevant.
Butler would've made £50-60 a year.
Cook/Head housekeeper would've made £40 a year.
Head house parlourmaid/Lady's Maid (like Anna) would've made in the mid-20s
Someone in Ethel/Gwen position would've made £12-15. I don't think there is anyone in that position these days, though.
Footmen would've made between £18-20 -- I'd guess Thomas would've made more than Jimmy/Molesley. Molesley probably got some social gain because of his service as valet to Matthew (hence he was called by his last name).
Kitchen maids (like Ivy) would've earned £10-15. I suspect Daisy would've made in the low 20s as she had become an assistant cook. Upstairs wouldn't really associate with that level as you notice when you have Mary wholly unfamiliar with who Ivy is during the post-pig breakfast (a pity no one asked for BACON!)
Of course consider that room and board were fully provided -- and the downstairs types would be eating pretty well most of the time.
Uniforms and the such were the responsibility of the servant.
It seems one afternoon + one evening off a week was typical, and if the upstairs people were not around (or if it was just someone easy going like Branson), there was probably a little more liberty. Typically the day started between 4-6am (some of the kitchen assistants had to be over to start the fires, at least early on) and ended by 8-9pm (or later if the upstairs folks had company).
Granted it is from an Upstairs Downstairs article in 1974, but it's relevant.
Butler would've made £50-60 a year.
Cook/Head housekeeper would've made £40 a year.
Head house parlourmaid/Lady's Maid (like Anna) would've made in the mid-20s
Someone in Ethel/Gwen position would've made £12-15. I don't think there is anyone in that position these days, though.
Footmen would've made between £18-20 -- I'd guess Thomas would've made more than Jimmy/Molesley. Molesley probably got some social gain because of his service as valet to Matthew (hence he was called by his last name).
Kitchen maids (like Ivy) would've earned £10-15. I suspect Daisy would've made in the low 20s as she had become an assistant cook. Upstairs wouldn't really associate with that level as you notice when you have Mary wholly unfamiliar with who Ivy is during the post-pig breakfast (a pity no one asked for BACON!)
Of course consider that room and board were fully provided -- and the downstairs types would be eating pretty well most of the time.
Uniforms and the such were the responsibility of the servant.
It seems one afternoon + one evening off a week was typical, and if the upstairs people were not around (or if it was just someone easy going like Branson), there was probably a little more liberty. Typically the day started between 4-6am (some of the kitchen assistants had to be over to start the fires, at least early on) and ended by 8-9pm (or later if the upstairs folks had company).
Anonymous
02/21/2014 17:10
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:The Cora's brother thing is kind of weird. Like was there a reason behind it all??
To weave in noteworthy historical events and to show she comes from a wealthy and powerful family?
Anonymous
02/21/2014 17:08
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anna was the maid for all the daughters before Mary got married.
Whatever happened to the Abbey having actual maid staff? All of the downstairs characters are fairly elite service staff (butler, housekeeper, ladies' maids, valets, footmen, etc.) - what about the people who wash the dishes and do the laundry and empty the chamber pots and clean the fireplaces? In Season 1, Daisy was a "house maid" and had tasks like that (and wasn't allowed in rooms at the same time as upstairs residents), but then she got promoted to the kitchen and we haven't seen real service staff since.
Occasionally you see them in the background. I think the show can only feature so many characters, so they don't focus on the rest of the staff. Also, we know that a lot of the staff are doing double duty to make up for shortages...both because the family can't afford to be as fully staffed as in the past, and because they have trouble finding good help (times were changing, poor men and women were finding different types of jobs, and it was no longer the norm to go into service.
Agree -- they've probably been forced to cut down on staff, but there are still more servants than the major characters. Weren't there a bunch of extra servants lined up to see Lord G off to America?
Anonymous
02/21/2014 16:59
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
The Cora's brother thing is kind of weird. Like was there a reason behind it all??
Anonymous
02/21/2014 16:55
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Bates did not kill his wife
Bates did not kill the valet
Anna thinks he killed the valet
I think the truth will be revealed when Cora's brother arrives from the States. Robert will allow Bates to perform some valet duties for brother, and he and Bates will work out what happened. Branson will be involved too.
If you watched ahead in Britain this fall and are a spoiler--ooooh, I'll be very mad.
Not a spoiler. Just intuition about Bates
Not sure how it will be resolved. Just guessing about Cora's brother
Anonymous
02/21/2014 16:13
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
I think he killed the wife out if frustration worher insanity and desperation to be with Anna. Don't think he killed the other guy.
Anonymous
02/21/2014 16:05
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:Anna was the maid for all the daughters before Mary got married.
Whatever happened to the Abbey having actual maid staff? All of the downstairs characters are fairly elite service staff (butler, housekeeper, ladies' maids, valets, footmen, etc.) - what about the people who wash the dishes and do the laundry and empty the chamber pots and clean the fireplaces? In Season 1, Daisy was a "house maid" and had tasks like that (and wasn't allowed in rooms at the same time as upstairs residents), but then she got promoted to the kitchen and we haven't seen real service staff since.
Occasionally you see them in the background. I think the show can only feature so many characters, so they don't focus on the rest of the staff. Also, we know that a lot of the staff are doing double duty to make up for shortages...both because the family can't afford to be as fully staffed as in the past, and because they have trouble finding good help (times were changing, poor men and women were finding different types of jobs, and it was no longer the norm to go into service.
Anonymous
02/21/2014 12:00
Subject: Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Af first, I didn't think that Bates killed his wife. But the way Anna is acting makes me think otherwise, especially since the valet has now died.
Anonymous
02/21/2014 11:29
Subject: Re:Downton Abbey 2/16 thread *Spoilers*
Anonymous wrote:How do you pronounce "valet"? The characters say it with a hard "T" but I thought it was pronounced without the emphasis on that letter.
In American english we say "valey". I believe Brits say "valeT"