Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 16:55     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think some posters here and many parents really do not understand what immersion is all about - since they seem to think it's no big deal to send a kid with no language experience into a school where his peers would have been participating in an immersion program for years.

I think some seriously think, "oh, no big deal, so they have a Mandarin class - maybe little Johnny can skip that and take something else - or if he does have to take it but isn't good at Mandarin, maybe he'll get a D in that class but everything else will be OK." Immersion means it's not just one language class. It means it will be coming up all throughout the schoolday. It will show up in History class. Science class. And so on. Further, language is a lifelong learning journey. You don't master Mandarin in a semester. A student coming in as a newbie to a room full of peers who have been working on it for years will flounder.

He'll be like that kid drowning in the deep end of the pool above. That parent will be doing their child a huge disservice if they don't understand that.


And I think people such as yourself hear things no one is saying. Who in this thread is minimizing or dismissing the work it takes to help a student who doesn't start at the entry grade get up to speed in proficiency? Quote please.


How would you propose that student catch up on several years worth of proficiency?

I think people are describing the rules that YY operates on, which include not admitting new students after 2nd grade.


I'm fine with those rules. Other posters seem insistent on being able to send kids after 2nd.


Who are you talking about??? Everyone in this thread either thinks that once entry is cut off at 2nd grade, there should be no more entry until 6th grade when YY/DCI can accomodate a new group of "never spoke Mandarin before" students in DCI. Because, students from Stokes, Mundo Verde, etc will not know Mandarin and will also be taking it for the first time if they so choose (and many will choose to). The other group in this thread wants to see any spots that open up through attrition between 2nd and 6th grades to be able to be filled by testing for language proficiency.

Who is it you are seeing saying "let the no Mandarin proficiency" students in after 2nd grade (but before 6th) so they'd be in 3rd grade trying to follow along with students who've been at YY for at least a year? No one is saying that. Quote anyone who said anything like that.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 16:51     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think some posters here and many parents really do not understand what immersion is all about - since they seem to think it's no big deal to send a kid with no language experience into a school where his peers would have been participating in an immersion program for years.

I think some seriously think, "oh, no big deal, so they have a Mandarin class - maybe little Johnny can skip that and take something else - or if he does have to take it but isn't good at Mandarin, maybe he'll get a D in that class but everything else will be OK." Immersion means it's not just one language class. It means it will be coming up all throughout the schoolday. It will show up in History class. Science class. And so on. Further, language is a lifelong learning journey. You don't master Mandarin in a semester. A student coming in as a newbie to a room full of peers who have been working on it for years will flounder.

He'll be like that kid drowning in the deep end of the pool above. That parent will be doing their child a huge disservice if they don't understand that.


And I think people such as yourself hear things no one is saying. Who in this thread is minimizing or dismissing the work it takes to help a student who doesn't start at the entry grade get up to speed in proficiency? Quote please.


How would you propose that student catch up on several years worth of proficiency?


There is no reason for me to answer your question when you are proposing a situation that under current YY policies, proposed DCI policies, and current PCSB policies, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. The oldest year for entry is 2nd grade, and if YY can they will push that down to 1st grade. Next opportunity to enter will be 6th grade, when there will be programming/allowances for many new-to-Mandarin students because students from non-Mandarin schools will be taking it for the 1st time as well.

Show anywhere in this thread where anyone has either dismissed the challenges of later entry (3rd to 5th grade) or treated Mandarin like an "add on" class and not a serious educational undertaking over the years, and I'll pay attention to your questions. But when you respond to stuff that no one has said, no one should waste time responding to you.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 16:38     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Yes. "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't."
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 14:27     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Having kids come into a specialized program like that at later grades is a logistical and educational nightmare.


It is not a logistical and educational nightmare if the students read, write and speak the language on a level equal to or above currently enrolled students.


That would dictate test-in admissions, but test-in is politically opposed.


Circular argument comes full circle.

So, to sum up:

This thread was started by a parent who wondered if their 3rd grade child, from another immersion program, could go to Yu Ying. The answer is no, under the current rules for charters, because admission must be by lottery and Yu Ying only accepts new students up to 2nd grade.

So far as I can tell, nobody disputes that the above is how things currently are.

A few people seem to think that the lottery should be extended to upper grades regardless of language proficiency (or maybe some PPs misunderstood other PPs on this point).

Other people think that YY should be permitted to admit proficient students after 2nd grade. Yes, that would mean some sort of test (and then presumably a lottery among people who passed the test). Yes, it's politically opposed, because people value the lottery more than they value filling empty seats at successful charters. PPs on this thread have argued that permitting test-in at upper grades gives an unfair advantage to high SES students. Other PPs disagree, and think it's not unfair to let empty seats be filled by students who could benefit from the school's program.

Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 13:46     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Having kids come into a specialized program like that at later grades is a logistical and educational nightmare.


It is not a logistical and educational nightmare if the students read, write and speak the language on a level equal to or above currently enrolled students.


That would dictate test-in admissions, but test-in is politically opposed.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 13:39     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:Having kids come into a specialized program like that at later grades is a logistical and educational nightmare.


It is not a logistical and educational nightmare if the students read, write and speak the language on a level equal to or above currently enrolled students.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 13:18     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Having kids come into a specialized program like that at later grades is a logistical and educational nightmare.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 13:17     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think some posters here and many parents really do not understand what immersion is all about - since they seem to think it's no big deal to send a kid with no language experience into a school where his peers would have been participating in an immersion program for years.

I think some seriously think, "oh, no big deal, so they have a Mandarin class - maybe little Johnny can skip that and take something else - or if he does have to take it but isn't good at Mandarin, maybe he'll get a D in that class but everything else will be OK." Immersion means it's not just one language class. It means it will be coming up all throughout the schoolday. It will show up in History class. Science class. And so on. Further, language is a lifelong learning journey. You don't master Mandarin in a semester. A student coming in as a newbie to a room full of peers who have been working on it for years will flounder.

He'll be like that kid drowning in the deep end of the pool above. That parent will be doing their child a huge disservice if they don't understand that.


And I think people such as yourself hear things no one is saying. Who in this thread is minimizing or dismissing the work it takes to help a student who doesn't start at the entry grade get up to speed in proficiency? Quote please.


How would you propose that student catch up on several years worth of proficiency?

I think people are describing the rules that YY operates on, which include not admitting new students after 2nd grade.


I'm fine with those rules. Other posters seem insistent on being able to send kids after 2nd.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 13:16     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think some posters here and many parents really do not understand what immersion is all about - since they seem to think it's no big deal to send a kid with no language experience into a school where his peers would have been participating in an immersion program for years.

I think some seriously think, "oh, no big deal, so they have a Mandarin class - maybe little Johnny can skip that and take something else - or if he does have to take it but isn't good at Mandarin, maybe he'll get a D in that class but everything else will be OK." Immersion means it's not just one language class. It means it will be coming up all throughout the schoolday. It will show up in History class. Science class. And so on. Further, language is a lifelong learning journey. You don't master Mandarin in a semester. A student coming in as a newbie to a room full of peers who have been working on it for years will flounder.

He'll be like that kid drowning in the deep end of the pool above. That parent will be doing their child a huge disservice if they don't understand that.


And I think people such as yourself hear things no one is saying. Who in this thread is minimizing or dismissing the work it takes to help a student who doesn't start at the entry grade get up to speed in proficiency? Quote please.


How would you propose that student catch up on several years worth of proficiency?


1.) Tutoring? No money for that. Plus, the families would have to support that extra work happening outside of regular school hours even if there were money for it.

2.) A separate track? History shows that people would immediately scream "discrimination" regardless of the circumstances. Might work, but not without a lot of whining and a lawsuit or two, just more money taken away from educating kids and sent to lawyers.

3.) Water down the rest of the immersion? Well then what was the whole point of doing language immersion at all? Might as well just replace the school with a DCPS school and you're back to square one.

What else is there?
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 13:05     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Exactly.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 13:02     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think some posters here and many parents really do not understand what immersion is all about - since they seem to think it's no big deal to send a kid with no language experience into a school where his peers would have been participating in an immersion program for years.

I think some seriously think, "oh, no big deal, so they have a Mandarin class - maybe little Johnny can skip that and take something else - or if he does have to take it but isn't good at Mandarin, maybe he'll get a D in that class but everything else will be OK." Immersion means it's not just one language class. It means it will be coming up all throughout the schoolday. It will show up in History class. Science class. And so on. Further, language is a lifelong learning journey. You don't master Mandarin in a semester. A student coming in as a newbie to a room full of peers who have been working on it for years will flounder.

He'll be like that kid drowning in the deep end of the pool above. That parent will be doing their child a huge disservice if they don't understand that.


And I think people such as yourself hear things no one is saying. Who in this thread is minimizing or dismissing the work it takes to help a student who doesn't start at the entry grade get up to speed in proficiency? Quote please.


How would you propose that student catch up on several years worth of proficiency?

I think people are describing the rules that YY operates on, which include not admitting new students after 2nd grade.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 12:29     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think some posters here and many parents really do not understand what immersion is all about - since they seem to think it's no big deal to send a kid with no language experience into a school where his peers would have been participating in an immersion program for years.

I think some seriously think, "oh, no big deal, so they have a Mandarin class - maybe little Johnny can skip that and take something else - or if he does have to take it but isn't good at Mandarin, maybe he'll get a D in that class but everything else will be OK." Immersion means it's not just one language class. It means it will be coming up all throughout the schoolday. It will show up in History class. Science class. And so on. Further, language is a lifelong learning journey. You don't master Mandarin in a semester. A student coming in as a newbie to a room full of peers who have been working on it for years will flounder.

He'll be like that kid drowning in the deep end of the pool above. That parent will be doing their child a huge disservice if they don't understand that.


And I think people such as yourself hear things no one is saying. Who in this thread is minimizing or dismissing the work it takes to help a student who doesn't start at the entry grade get up to speed in proficiency? Quote please.


How would you propose that student catch up on several years worth of proficiency?
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 11:58     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:The only fair way to use the resources of a school like Yu Ying is to have a lottery for every seat every year. Why should children get to have a whole six years of Chinese immersion just because they got lucky in the lottery once? Every student should have an equal chance to have immersion every year.

As a matter of fact, why should any student have a "right" to a seat at the same school they went to the year before? All charter and DCPS school seats should be assigned by lottery every year. That's the only way to treat all students equally.

What's that you say? All those lotteries and transferring would be a big burden on families? That it would undermine the whole point of immersion if you could only do it for one year? Are you saying those concerns outweigh the need for complete equality of access to every seat at every grade level?

Well then. We agree that complete fairness and equal access to a given school has to give way to other concerns. So all we are arguing about is which concerns are important enough.

One side of this thread thinks that at the point where complete fairness means that a seat has to go vacant--because a lottery would most likely pick a student who is not equipped to enter a mandarin immersion classroom at a third-grade level--it is better to allow the seat to be filled by someone who is equipped than to let it stay vacant.

The other side thinks that it is better to let the seat go vacant.

You're ignoring the significant number of posters who are describing current law and explaining/speculating on why things are the way they are.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 10:18     Subject: Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
The only fair way to use the resources of a school like Yu Ying is to have a lottery for every seat every year. Why should children get to have a whole six years of Chinese immersion just because they got lucky in the lottery once? Every student should have an equal chance to have immersion every year.

As a matter of fact, why should any student have a "right" to a seat at the same school they went to the year before? All charter and DCPS school seats should be assigned by lottery every year. That's the only way to treat all students equally.

What's that you say? All those lotteries and transferring would be a big burden on families? That it would undermine the whole point of immersion if you could only do it for one year? Are you saying those concerns outweigh the need for complete equality of access to every seat at every grade level?

Well then. We agree that complete fairness and equal access to a given school has to give way to other concerns. So all we are arguing about is which concerns are important enough.

One side of this thread thinks that at the point where complete fairness means that a seat has to go vacant--because a lottery would most likely pick a student who is not equipped to enter a mandarin immersion classroom at a third-grade level--it is better to allow the seat to be filled by someone who is equipped than to let it stay vacant.

The other side thinks that it is better to let the seat go vacant.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2014 09:51     Subject: Re:Yu Ying - Transferring to Yu Ying from another state
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hi Op, I only read a few pages of this thread (did not have time to read it entirely) and had to write to apologize for all of the very rude people who responded!

My child is in an immersion program and you can bet that if I had to relocate, I would try my hardest to get him into another immersion school! I personally do not understand why you cannot test an enter into a higher grade (provided you got in via lottery) - this seems very unfair. I imagine that if a YY parent had to move to another state they would also try to do the same.

I just want to say that you are certainly not asking anything unreasonable and I wish you luck in your search! Please come back to update us!


As a Yu Ying parent getting ready to move to another state, we are doing everything in our power to get into another immersion charter. I've yet to find one that doesn't allow test in. Clearly, the entire country must be against poor children. Honestly, the argument that rich kids with tutors will take over these schools if they can test in is preposterous. We are a bilingual household and I can't tell you how long it takes children to proficiently speak in both languages (not just understand). If one of those languages is English, it can take even longer. Not allowing testing at higher grades just discourages native speakers. I'm starting to wonder if most on this thread are okay with discriminating against Chinese, not just African Americans.


1. Liar. How many states are you attempting to move into, exactly?

2. You didn't look very hard throughout "the entire country" for such a school that doesn't permit test-in in higher grades so as to bypass the lottery process. I found three in three minutes. Check out yinghua acsmdemy in Minneapolis as one of these examples. Lottery. Period.


+ 1,000!