Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

But you're at a different stage in life. You bought your house when before the bubble, when gas was cheaper, when economy was better, and when families were able to live on one income. Try starting out with 2 kids in daycare and paying for a house now on 180k.

PP here. That will always be true. We didn't make $180K when we were starting out, not even close. We struggled just as you do. It's what life is like, starting out, for most people.

I still say $200Kish is a LOT of money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

But you're at a different stage in life. You bought your house when before the bubble, when gas was cheaper, when economy was better, and when families were able to live on one income. Try starting out with 2 kids in daycare and paying for a house now on 180k.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a frugal people. All four of our parents grew up during the depression and came of age during the rationing of WWII. With the exception of a house and occasionally a car, we buy when we have the money (pay as you go).

We wash our shirts (only use dry cleaners a few times a year). We don't do Starbucks. We don't buy lunch more than once a week. We eat real food prepared at home. We keep our thermostat at 68' in the winter and 74' in the summer. We did the non sexy stuff to our house first (insulated, roof, efficient heating and Air conditioning). We drive cars until they die, but take care of them so they don't die prematurely. We fix things, reuse things then recycle them. We buy high quality clothes that last and not tons of them ( we have a regular closet- no walk in). We mow our own lawn. We do get an every other week housecleaner. We plan our errands. We plan our purchases. We tithe. We don't go to concerts or plays (except local free or nearly free ones). We use the library weekly. We clean our own gutters. We go to family for summer vacations most years (have a bigger vacation every 2-4 years- use VBRO type of places). We use DH's frequent flyer miles when we fly (which is not often). We host potlucks. DH has a smart phone from work, but the DCs and I have a pay as you go phones that cost $100/year each. We have purchased couches, beds and mattresses, but most of our other furniture is "inherited" (I call it 'early attic'). We have done renovations to our house once we have saved up the money. We wash and reuse our zip lock bags. We use cloths napkins and dish towels instead of paper in the kitchen. We use rags for cleaning instead of paper towels. From the get go, we set our expenses off of one salary and saved as much as we could.

Little things add up. It isn't just the Starbucks habit- it is 12-24 Starbuck type habits.

Wow! Way to live large, dude.

Way to work until you drop dead, dude. But you will have wonderful memories of driving a leased beemer and popping your collar at your bottle service table to get you through those difficult years of working as a geriatric.

NP here, I would rather work until I was older but live a good life, rather than penny pinch to retire early.

I have a friend with your attitude. He makes an okay income (~110k, works for the feds) but has 2 kids and a spouse at home. Dude lives it up. They have an Escalade and some other sporty car, huge projector in the basement, gigantic deck that he had built, I think he may have a hot tub by now, vacations to various island locations and Disneyworld every year. If he ever loses his job, they will be out in the street, and he will never be financially secure.

I hope you aren't as foolish as he is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

But you're at a different stage in life. You bought your house when before the bubble, when gas was cheaper, when economy was better, and when families were able to live on one income. Try starting out with 2 kids in daycare and paying for a house now on 180k.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Thank you. We are aggressive savers and planners.

Anyone who uses "$200K" and "survive" in the same sentence is clueless. With a HHI of $180K, we consider ourselves rich.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Short by what standard? Putting away enough for a public university, putting away 10% of HHI for retirement - is that short? I think you're imagining a family of 200k income living like they make 300 or 400k, which sure plenty of families do, and they make up the difference by not putting away for retirement or college, but the point I've been trying to make on this thread is you don't have to live like that and your standard of living doesn't necessarily have to take a big hit to live more modestly. Living just outside the district and sending your kid to childcare there can easily save you 2k a month that you then can put towards the savings you claim people are short on.

Putting away 10% of HHI for retirement gets you to retire on what percentage of your HHI at what age, and is that sufficient, or will you be relying on Social Security?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Wow, very impressive! Good for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Anonymous wrote:Yes there are costs to staying at home. There is also tremendous value add and not just to the children but the family as a whole. To the working spouse and his or her ability to earn more. If we get hung up on just $$ of staying at home then we fail to understand some of the more fundamental motivators. It is a risky move, agreed. But could pay dividends of a nature that you can't put a $ value to. For some families having a SAHP is the best decision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't get why people think two income earners in a household with kids is not really worth it. I have one child in a licensed in-home daycare for a total of $13,800/year. [For those who think in-home care is "substandard," there's a reputable center even closer to my house that I could send my daughter to (yes, they have openings) for $13k a year, so I'd actually save a bit.]

Since we both work, we're each "paying" $7.5k a year to keep our full time jobs. It's a no brainer that this is financially worthwhile. Even if you wanted to attribute all of the childcare costs to the mother, you could say I "pay" $13k/year to keep my full time job, health insurance for my family, life insurance for us, retirement and a modest pension. Do you know how little I'd have to make for this to not be financially worthwhile? Even if I made that little, I would be eligible for childcare subsidies through my city, my work, and my state + low-income housing + food stamps. All of that would probably still make it worthwhile for me to stay in the work force, contribute to social security, etc.

The vast majority of people staying home with their children and out of the workforce are not doing it to save money. They are doing it because they feel it is the right thing to do, it's what they want to do, or they feel their children need them available and present all day, everyday. But I don't see the point of pretending there's a "two income trap." The numbers just don't add up.

Not to mention the lost income potential--often when you stay home for several years, you lose ground that you never get back.

Definitely true, but 'surviving' on $200k or $160k is much easier when it is a single high income earner rather than two folks making $80k and paying for childcare and working parent scrambling.

Being a SAHP can have long term consequences to ultimate household income in the long term, but most folks who go that route already have a relatively high income spouse and most likely in a stable job (otherwise unlikely you would have left the workforce).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Short by what standard? Putting away enough for a public university, putting away 10% of HHI for retirement - is that short? I think you're imagining a family of 200k income living like they make 300 or 400k, which sure plenty of families do, and they make up the difference by not putting away for retirement or college, but the point I've been trying to make on this thread is you don't have to live like that and your standard of living doesn't necessarily have to take a big hit to live more modestly. Living just outside the district and sending your kid to childcare there can easily save you 2k a month that you then can put towards the savings you claim people are short on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Citation please.

Our HHI is $180K.

We have about $700K equity in our house and less than $100K to pay on the mortgage.

Retirement accounts total $1.5M. We are 50yo.

College savings total $250K for two kids ages 15 and 12.

We are not "way short." Not by a long shot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.