Anonymous wrote:
NP here: I don't think the dynamic is this symmetrical. Many men have experienced the contrary, because what the DW *says* will make her want more sex does not, in many cases, actually make her want more sex. OTOH, I have seen many posts on female-oriented message boards talking about how much nicer their DH is to deal with when he gets more sex.

Typically (not always), a man's sex drive is a lot more straight forward. That means he understands it better and when asked can give his spouse more reliable information.

A woman's sex drive is (often) more complicated. What makes it even more complicated is that, sometimes, it works in ways that are not entirely compatible with how she would like the overall dynamic of the relationship. What if - for example - the dynamic that would really get the woman revved up is where she gives some token resistance which her spouse overcomes to show her how hot and desirable he thinks she is and then he picks her up, hauls her into the bedroom, and throws her on the bed?

But, maybe it's tough to let him know this. First, maybe it's embarrassing. Second, maybe by *telling* him, it doesn't work -- part of what makes it hot is that he finds her so desirable, he just has to have her in spite of her resistance. Third, maybe this fantasy is at odds with her desire to have the overall relationship be entirely equal and of course have him understand that "no means no."

It's all very complicated. So, instead of telling her husband that, she says, "Oh, I'm always so tired. Maybe if you did the dishes more, I'd be more likely to want sex." But, somehow, no matter how diligently he scrubs, she's always just so tired.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nor it is a weapon or a reward...

I feel if DWs are not willing to seriously look at how and whether they are meeting the emotional and sexual needs of their husbands and vice versa, they really have no cause for complaint if the denied spouse is stepping out on the side. You've really left them with no other choice to have those needs met.

F here. Sex as a weapon or reward is cruel.

M here, and I agree. But you can see how this dynamic starts: DH wants to have sex, DW doesn't want to for whatever reason (or no reason at all--sometimes she's just not in the mood), and when DH asks her about why not, she says "you don't do enough around the house" or "you don't do X," or "you did Y and it upset me and now I don't feel like it."

Sex has been put out there as a weapon--DH didn't earn his fuck, and DW withholds what he wants.

So, DH does what she asks, and expects his reward, and the downward spiral begins.

You do realize this works both ways, right? DW isn't having her needs met outside the bedroom so her level of desire and attraction is low. She complains and DH says he would be better if he got more sex. She complies but still doesn't get what she wants and the downward spiral begins.

NP here: I don't think the dynamic is this symmetrical. Many men have experienced the contrary, because what the DW *says* will make her want more sex does not, in many cases, actually make her want more sex. OTOH, I have seen many posts on female-oriented message boards talking about how much nicer their DH is to deal with when he gets more sex.

Anonymous wrote:It's unfortunate that this thread hasn't included much discussion about the whys of an imbalance in desire. There seems to be an assumption that it's always about being tired or some sort of a hormonal imbalance, when in reality, there could be all sorts of other issues that are contributing to the problem.

Sometimes it's just how people are. When my H was 30 years old, single and childfree, he wanted sex about every 4 or 5 days. Now, at over 50, two teenage children and married, he wants sex ....about every four or five days. I've always wanted it about every other day. Sometimes, people's "set points" are just not the same. In our case, sometimes I push for more, sometimes I let him determine frequency. That's the real compromise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You do realize this works both ways, right? DW isn't having her needs met outside the bedroom so her level of desire and attraction is low. She complains and DH says he would be better if he got more sex. She complies but still doesn't get what she wants and the downward spiral begins.

Yes--and in both cases the woman is using sex as a weapon and a reward.

+1 I just do not think a lot of married folks get it. Use intimacy as a motivational tool at your peril. Trust me, the LAST thing you want is for your spouse to stop asking you for that intimacy. And if intimancy with my spouse is tied to some household chore or changing conditions, it is not worth it. And once I stop asking, it is a wrap. My spouse and I have come back from the abyss but early in our marriage, sex was used a reward. "I would be more likely to want to do it if you would [fill in blank]. I already did my fair share of the housework and then some. After a while, it set in that my spouse did not desire me but sex was a means to an end. I stopped asking and rebuffed their advances to me. I was asked whether I still found them attractive in that way since I no longer asked. I said no - anyone who forces me to jump through hoops just to get basic intimacy is not attractive. My spouse was offended. It took counseling for us work things out even to this point.

Exactly. Don't tell me I have to give you more sex just to get the attention and emotional intimacy I desire.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You do realize this works both ways, right? DW isn't having her needs met outside the bedroom so her level of desire and attraction is low. She complains and DH says he would be better if he got more sex. She complies but still doesn't get what she wants and the downward spiral begins.

Yes--and in both cases the woman is using sex as a weapon and a reward.

Just as the husband is using whatever the wife asks for as a weapon/reward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You do realize this works both ways, right? DW isn't having her needs met outside the bedroom so her level of desire and attraction is low. She complains and DH says he would be better if he got more sex. She complies but still doesn't get what she wants and the downward spiral begins.

Yes--and in both cases the woman is using sex as a weapon and a reward.

+1 I just do not think a lot of married folks get it. Use intimacy as a motivational tool at your peril. Trust me, the LAST thing you want is for your spouse to stop asking you for that intimacy. And if intimancy with my spouse is tied to some household chore or changing conditions, it is not worth it. And once I stop asking, it is a wrap. My spouse and I have come back from the abyss but early in our marriage, sex was used a reward. "I would be more likely to want to do it if you would [fill in blank]. I already did my fair share of the housework and then some. After a while, it set in that my spouse did not desire me but sex was a means to an end. I stopped asking and rebuffed their advances to me. I was asked whether I still found them attractive in that way since I no longer asked. I said no - anyone who forces me to jump through hoops just to get basic intimacy is not attractive. My spouse was offended. It took counseling for us work things out even to this point.

Anonymous wrote:
You do realize this works both ways, right? DW isn't having her needs met outside the bedroom so her level of desire and attraction is low. She complains and DH says he would be better if he got more sex. She complies but still doesn't get what she wants and the downward spiral begins.

Yes--and in both cases the woman is using sex as a weapon and a reward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nor it is a weapon or a reward...

I feel if DWs are not willing to seriously look at how and whether they are meeting the emotional and sexual needs of their husbands and vice versa, they really have no cause for complaint if the denied spouse is stepping out on the side. You've really left them with no other choice to have those needs met.

F here. Sex as a weapon or reward is cruel.

M here, and I agree. But you can see how this dynamic starts: DH wants to have sex, DW doesn't want to for whatever reason (or no reason at all--sometimes she's just not in the mood), and when DH asks her about why not, she says "you don't do enough around the house" or "you don't do X," or "you did Y and it upset me and now I don't feel like it."

Sex has been put out there as a weapon--DH didn't earn his fuck, and DW withholds what he wants.

So, DH does what she asks, and expects his reward, and the downward spiral begins.

You do realize this works both ways, right? DW isn't having her needs met outside the bedroom so her level of desire and attraction is low. She complains and DH says he would be better if he got more sex. She complies but still doesn't get what she wants and the downward spiral begins.

Plenty of recently divorced people who "just didn't like sex" with their spouse and then are suddenly into it. Monogamy can be a libido killer for some people, I guess.

I have female friends who say they don't like it that much, particularly since they've had kids. I personally like it just as much and might even want it more now (in my 40s). Been with DH for 15+ years and he's very good in bed imho. I did have sexual experience before marriage. So it makes me wonder if my friends just have dud husbands in the sex dept. or if they have EVER had good sex (previous to marriage). This seems to be an epidemic!

In a few occasions that dw expressed slight interests in sex, I would always give it to her no matter how tired I was or not in the mood.

On the other hand, I have begged for sex so many times (and often still not get it) I that I am no longer wishing for it on the weekends, in any case she normally stays up until 1 or 2 clock on Saturday nights. I know she is not into me and that I just have to bite the bullet.

Her excuse are "today you annoyed me so much", "most of friends hate sex too","I am too tired", depending on the circumstances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nor it is a weapon or a reward...

I feel if DWs are not willing to seriously look at how and whether they are meeting the emotional and sexual needs of their husbands and vice versa, they really have no cause for complaint if the denied spouse is stepping out on the side. You've really left them with no other choice to have those needs met.

F here. Sex as a weapon or reward is cruel.

M here, and I agree. But you can see how this dynamic starts: DH wants to have sex, DW doesn't want to for whatever reason (or no reason at all--sometimes she's just not in the mood), and when DH asks her about why not, she says "you don't do enough around the house" or "you don't do X," or "you did Y and it upset me and now I don't feel like it."

Sex has been put out there as a weapon--DH didn't earn his fuck, and DW withholds what he wants.

So, DH does what she asks, and expects his reward, and the downward spiral begins.

So why do men withhold sex?

Maybe because their wives have let themselves go and became fat and disgusting?

I don't think that's the case for any of my former BFs.

The reasons I've heard from men: tired, stressed, busy or didn't feel like it. Then, there's acting like I'm nuts if I complain about the lack of sex or suggest something outside their comfort zone.

I wouldn't assume that men lose interest because their wives have "let themselves go." They might, but more often I would think that men lose interest in sex for the same reasons women do: hormones, general malaise, general dissatisfaction with their lives and relationships.

I don't know how men explain their disinterest in sex, because I've never had to give (or receive) that speech.

I have heard from my wife many explanations of why she's disinterested, from work stress to birth control hormones to being tired to me not doing enough to help around the house. I'm sure she sincerely believes these things when she says them, but she's no longer on birth control, she's changed jobs, she gets sleep, and I do plenty around the house, and we still don't have sex very often. She's just not that into it. Some people aren't, and that's okay, as long as they're otherwise happy.

The problem with spouses giving bogus (even if good-faith) reasons for not wanting sex is that the other spouse feels cheated when s/he fixes those reasons and their sex life doesn't improve. It feels like either the low-desire spouse was lying (even though they weren't), or that they're otherwise unsatisfied with the marriage but can't express it. It's hard for an HD spouse to accept that the LD spouse loves them when the LD spouse doesn't want to have sex. It just doesn't make sense to an HD person. Both would be better off if they made an effort to understand each other's feelings without blaming each other for their mismatched desire levels.

I'd be interested in knowing what proportion of men withholding sex explain their disinterest in terms of their wife not doing enough to help out and vice versa. Men are probably more likely to feel like the cause has to do with her appearance.

But I'll bet neither gender has a very good understanding of what is *really* killing their attraction. They come up with plausible ideas; but - for example - when a guy starts stepping up his help around the house, very often that doesn't lead to more sex either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nor it is a weapon or a reward...

I feel if DWs are not willing to seriously look at how and whether they are meeting the emotional and sexual needs of their husbands and vice versa, they really have no cause for complaint if the denied spouse is stepping out on the side. You've really left them with no other choice to have those needs met.

F here. Sex as a weapon or reward is cruel.

M here, and I agree. But you can see how this dynamic starts: DH wants to have sex, DW doesn't want to for whatever reason (or no reason at all--sometimes she's just not in the mood), and when DH asks her about why not, she says "you don't do enough around the house" or "you don't do X," or "you did Y and it upset me and now I don't feel like it."

Sex has been put out there as a weapon--DH didn't earn his fuck, and DW withholds what he wants.

So, DH does what she asks, and expects his reward, and the downward spiral begins.

So why do men withhold sex?

Maybe because their wives have let themselves go and became fat and disgusting?