Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 13:59     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
Anonymous wrote:We should all be glad that we live in a society that allows us the choice to either WOH or SAH.


I so agree! I would have been miserable if I'd had to give up my work just because I became a parent. My work is such an integral part of who I am. We'll have kids at home for only 21 years; hardly worth giving up a life's work for that period of time. I hope to live until at least 80~!
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 13:28     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay- I'll feed the troll.

My kids have learned things in daycare that I never could have taught them as a SAHM. My control cases are my neices and nephews; other SAHM.

My kids accept diversity without question. Their caregivers and classmates are from all over the world and my kids have never asked me why so and so's skin is darker than their's. They don't care because they have grown up with people who don't look like them. They have been hugged and loved and cared for by people who are different. They do not fear difference in the world- they approach others with openness and curiosity, not fear.

My kids have learned independence. They have learned to navigate the world without Mommy and Daddy at their side. They have learned that other people can love you and take care of you, other than their parents.

My kids have learned to interact with their peers. They have learned to negociate disagreements. They don't just run to Mom or Dad to protest or negociate for them. My kids have learned how to handle disputes with their words.

Unless you are an arts and crafts whiz and a former teachers, they have been exposed to a richness of diverse opportunities to learn; express themselves through art and music. They were ready for school much before the kids of SAHMs. They understand routine and classroom management. They went to kindergarden writing, reading and doing math because they had learned so much. They accepted structure.


So you talk about your "control" group -- what's the sample size? This is not really a study. All WOHMs are motivated to see things this way, just as SAHMs are motivated to see a different picture.


Really, so what have you observed about children that attended daycare? What's the picture you see? I'm not the PP you quoted, but this parent is talking from her own experience. Her kids obviously thrived in daycare. Most kids do. There is do data out there suggesting that they don't. So what is your point? I'm not going to say one option is better than the other, like this poster above might believe, because I think either choice is valid. I am so so so sick of parents on either side of the debate tearing other families' choices down.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 13:24     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For those of you who abhor daycare, has it occurred to you that when you need emergency medical care for your child - and it has or will happen to all of us - the medical personnel who take of your family probably had their children (at some pint) in daycare?


I'm the poster called a cunt. I never said women should be hidden in the house forever after having children. My point is that women should be encouraged to stay home with their infants and toddlers until they're ready for social interaction and craving this kind of stimulation. A 6mo old does not need that.


A six month old doesn't need much besides a loving, consistent, caring environment. They can get that in daycare.

And, finally, that was not your point. At all. Your point was that families that use daycare are not raising their children. You said it several times. Care to retract?
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 13:04     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
Anonymous wrote:Okay- I'll feed the troll.

My kids have learned things in daycare that I never could have taught them as a SAHM. My control cases are my neices and nephews; other SAHM.

My kids accept diversity without question. Their caregivers and classmates are from all over the world and my kids have never asked me why so and so's skin is darker than their's. They don't care because they have grown up with people who don't look like them. They have been hugged and loved and cared for by people who are different. They do not fear difference in the world- they approach others with openness and curiosity, not fear.

My kids have learned independence. They have learned to navigate the world without Mommy and Daddy at their side. They have learned that other people can love you and take care of you, other than their parents.

My kids have learned to interact with their peers. They have learned to negociate disagreements. They don't just run to Mom or Dad to protest or negociate for them. My kids have learned how to handle disputes with their words.

Unless you are an arts and crafts whiz and a former teachers, they have been exposed to a richness of diverse opportunities to learn; express themselves through art and music. They were ready for school much before the kids of SAHMs. They understand routine and classroom management. They went to kindergarden writing, reading and doing math because they had learned so much. They accepted structure.


So you talk about your "control" group -- what's the sample size? This is not really a study. All WOHMs are motivated to see things this way, just as SAHMs are motivated to see a different picture.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 12:59     Subject: Some thoughts on daycare
The worst types of threads are those designed specifically to make people feel bad for their parenting choices. This one is the absolutely one of the worst I've seen because so many people bought into the opportunity to criticize and bash and to actually try to make people feel like crappy parents. If you're one of those posters, I would be looking at myself and wondering what in the earth I gain from attempting to make my neighbors feel like crap for how they parent their children.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 12:58     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
Daycare is quite common in Europe (I'm from Germany), but you receive a longer maternity leave, so the baby is generally more than six weeks old before they enter daycare. But it is totally normal for women to work and I do not see anything wrong with it. In the former East Germany, all women worked and the children were cared for in childcare centers. Nobody would have had the idea to stay home and it is generally not seen as sub-standard to have your children in a daycare center while the mother works.

How, I do have to say that the childcare centers in Europe have a much much higher standard. The people are educated and highly trained in Early Childhood Development. Here in the U.S., I find that childcare centers employ people who do not necessarily have a lot of education or training (with the exception of a few). Now that does not mean that they are not loving towards the children (many of the workers adore the children they work with), but they are paid slightly above minimum wage and most often they do not have a college degree or even minimum training in ECD.

Instead of the constant debate about SAHM vs. WM, we should all work together as women to make sure that the people who care for our children are not only properly trained and educated, but also receive fair compensation and benefits.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 12:56     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For those of you who abhor daycare, has it occurred to you that when you need emergency medical care for your child - and it has or will happen to all of us - the medical personnel who take of your family probably had their children (at some pint) in daycare?


I'm the poster called a cunt. I never said women should be hidden in the house forever after having children. My point is that women should be encouraged to stay home with their infants and toddlers until they're ready for social interaction and craving this kind of stimulation. A 6mo old does not need that.


I understand your point, but it is not that easy for any professional to come in and out of the workforce at will. If you leave your job for two years, you're unlikely to get it back at the same pay level, if at all. The work world just doesn't work that way.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 12:44     Subject: Some thoughts on daycare
This entire discussion is a moot point. Because until our country enacts family friendly social policies that allow all families to have adequate maternity and paternity leave, flex time work, job security when one does want to return to work (like many European countries have in place), then daycare will be a necessity, not a choice. And until our country standardizes and subsidizes child care (including universal Pre-K) and refuses to accept the hodgepodge of care we have for our young children, people will feel hesitant about their choices. But I don't see these social policies being enacted any time soon, do you?
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 12:41     Subject: Some thoughts on daycare
hard choices people. stay at home and lose out on years of income (even after you re-enter years later only to make less $). you pay for it later in life with a loss of savings and retirement.

of course there are exceptions - like families where one partner earns a ton of $. i would say that is not representative of the average family, trying to make it, not just today, but in the future when social security will be broken.

it would be awesome to stay at home, but it would be financially irresponsible too. and yes, money matters, not for the perks, but for survival.

after seeing what my family went through with a sibling's illness and subsequent bills, you realize the line is fragile for most americans.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 12:38     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
Calm down, lady.

We're talking about toddlers here not preschoolers. There's no need to get so defensive about YOUR choices assuming you think you're doing the best for your family.


I'm perfectly calm, and not being defensive at all. I'm explaining one reason that parents of children in daycare may not know more about what happened during their child's day.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 12:35     Subject: Some thoughts on daycare
Why does it have to be the woman? Or do you just take 'women' to mean 'parents'?
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 12:00     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
Anonymous wrote:For those of you who abhor daycare, has it occurred to you that when you need emergency medical care for your child - and it has or will happen to all of us - the medical personnel who take of your family probably had their children (at some pint) in daycare?


I'm the poster called a cunt. I never said women should be hidden in the house forever after having children. My point is that women should be encouraged to stay home with their infants and toddlers until they're ready for social interaction and craving this kind of stimulation. A 6mo old does not need that.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 11:58     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
Anonymous wrote:
A lot of parents came later on to say that this is how they know what goes on in daycare. How awful is that? Obviously I didn't say anything there but it must be really really sad not to know what goes on with your child all day and just hope they'll "let it out" while going to sleep in the end of the day.


I get home at a time that allows me to spend 3.5 hours with my kid before he goes to sleep and he will not answer one question about what happened at daycare with any specificity. "What did you do today?" "Play." "What did you eat?" "I forget." I get a sheet that tells me what he did, and I have a menu list, I'm just trying to talk with him. A large part of it is that preschoolers don't necessarily understand the concept of sharing what happened in their day, not that their parents are ignoring them or leaving them in daycare until right before they go to sleep.


Calm down, lady.

We're talking about toddlers here not preschoolers. There's no need to get so defensive about YOUR choices assuming you think you're doing the best for your family.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 11:31     Subject: Some thoughts on daycare
Anonymous wrote:I've posted earlier. My opinion is that women should take a year or two off after baby's birth, at this critical time when baby really wants/needs mom, baby is (ideally) breastfeeding, etc. Then mom returns to work. I don't think that moms should not be part of the workforce - they should. But a break in those important few years after birth would benefit baby (and probably mom, too).
And yes, i am aware that our country doesn't make this easy for women, that it could be hard to re-enter the workforce, etc.


Well, think about that. When my child was 2 I was pregnant with another, so wouldn't have made much sense to go back for a bit and then quit again. So that is 4 years out of the workforce if I took just over 2.5 years for the first and around 1 for the second. Yeah, not so easy to jump back in, and no guarantee about flexibility etc. I stayed because I had a good commute, a boss/department head who loved me and wanted to work with me on a reasonable schedule, etc. We also have daycare at my husband's work so the convenience and accountability factor seemed good, not to mention he is a ton more involved in their lives than if I stayed home.

So, I disagree it is ideal. There are so many other factors than just the picture of mom and baby bonding all day. It's just more complex than that. I do agree that more standard, longer maternity leaves and flexible policies are necessary, but I don't think we'd get there if every new mom dropped out of the workforce for a few years. Family friendly policies are not there to recruit women who have been out of the workforce for years. They are there to retain talented women who have babies.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2012 11:23     Subject: Re:Some thoughts on daycare
A lot of parents came later on to say that this is how they know what goes on in daycare. How awful is that? Obviously I didn't say anything there but it must be really really sad not to know what goes on with your child all day and just hope they'll "let it out" while going to sleep in the end of the day.


I get home at a time that allows me to spend 3.5 hours with my kid before he goes to sleep and he will not answer one question about what happened at daycare with any specificity. "What did you do today?" "Play." "What did you eat?" "I forget." I get a sheet that tells me what he did, and I have a menu list, I'm just trying to talk with him. A large part of it is that preschoolers don't necessarily understand the concept of sharing what happened in their day, not that their parents are ignoring them or leaving them in daycare until right before they go to sleep.