Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why 50/50 on assets plus child support isn’t what you should expect. Alimony is an injustice to any person. The marriage is over, but then financially everyone pretends like it isn’t?

Except that one spouse is forced to absorb all the downside of supporting and sacrificing for the other’s career opportunities while the other harvests all the upside. You can’t make it be over unless you have a magical time machine that resets the spouse’s age and opportunities to where they were before they had to stop working. Alimony recognizes the impossibility of that.

Why is it always assumed that the “sacrificing” spouse furthered the other spouse’s career? I worked in government, my career trajectory was pretty much set. In my specific situation, my ex was more of a detriment to my career. Not only did I work full time, but I also did most of the cooking, cleaning, child-rearing, etc. Yet I would still hear the same argument about what my spouse “gave up,” when in reality they could have gone back to work at any time during the marriage and chose not to.

Because they do. My DH has never taken kids to doctors, any other appointments, parent-teacher conferences, any school functions, sport practices, nothing at all. Doesn't know teachers, coaches, doctors. Has never met any. Doesn't cook nor clean, has no idea about house management, repairs, taxes, mortgage. One of our kids got accepted to gifted program and I had to drive them to-and-from as this wasn't covered by a school bus. When kids were little, he regularly stayed in his office until 11 pm so that he didn't have to do anything. I wish I didn't get married and had a career instead as I did before getting married! No, I didn't know nor did we agree that everything will to be done by me.

So he cooked and cleaned and paid bills while you were dating? And when the first one was born and he didn't do anything with them you decided to have more kids?

Everyone cooks and cleans and pays bills when dating.

And if you have already mommy-tracked yourself or decided to be home outside of school hours to take care of one kid, why not have more?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

STOP THIS MISOGYNISTIC BS. IT’S SO GOD DAMNED TIRED.

Sorry the truth hurts. Most of these women would work dead end retail jobs for the rest of their lives.

This area is the most highly educated in the country. Many women who stay home have graduate and professional degrees. It is super common. Your circle must be a huge outlier if that is what you think about women in this area.

At look at the attrition rate of women who finish medical school and then are ready to downgrade or drop out of the profession after 5 years. Education and credentials do not change the original premise that the preference for a lot of these women is to not work outside of the home. They dress it up it whatever language about "sacrifice" they need to to save face because the prevailing zeitgeist and their peers would look down upon them making such a choice. Easier to shift those negative feelings toward big, bad hubby.

It’s not “after five years.” It’s “after having children.”
And I can guarantee you that it’s not a “preference to be home.” It is the hubby who pays lip service to helping out, but he doesn’t.
It doesn’t even have to be your husband. It might be your chair who thinks that women are going to want to be home with their kids, and so he takes the program you started or the fellowship you put into place or the multi-site research study you initiated and got through the IRB and puts a man in charge of it and gives you a secondary role.

Read the book “Opting Out.”

Stop feeding the trolls. You are entitled to support, op.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why 50/50 on assets plus child support isn’t what you should expect. Alimony is an injustice to any person. The marriage is over, but then financially everyone pretends like it isn’t?

Except that one spouse is forced to absorb all the downside of supporting and sacrificing for the other’s career opportunities while the other harvests all the upside. You can’t make it be over unless you have a magical time machine that resets the spouse’s age and opportunities to where they were before they had to stop working. Alimony recognizes the impossibility of that.

Why is it always assumed that the “sacrificing” spouse furthered the other spouse’s career? I worked in government, my career trajectory was pretty much set. In my specific situation, my ex was more of a detriment to my career. Not only did I work full time, but I also did most of the cooking, cleaning, child-rearing, etc. Yet I would still hear the same argument about what my spouse “gave up,” when in reality they could have gone back to work at any time during the marriage and chose not to.

Because they do. My DH has never taken kids to doctors, any other appointments, parent-teacher conferences, any school functions, sport practices, nothing at all. Doesn't know teachers, coaches, doctors. Has never met any. Doesn't cook nor clean, has no idea about house management, repairs, taxes, mortgage. One of our kids got accepted to gifted program and I had to drive them to-and-from as this wasn't covered by a school bus. When kids were little, he regularly stayed in his office until 11 pm so that he didn't have to do anything. I wish I didn't get married and had a career instead as I did before getting married! No, I didn't know nor did we agree that everything will to be done by me.

So he cooked and cleaned and paid bills while you were dating? And when the first one was born and he didn't do anything with them you decided to have more kids?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why 50/50 on assets plus child support isn’t what you should expect. Alimony is an injustice to any person. The marriage is over, but then financially everyone pretends like it isn’t?

Except that one spouse is forced to absorb all the downside of supporting and sacrificing for the other’s career opportunities while the other harvests all the upside. You can’t make it be over unless you have a magical time machine that resets the spouse’s age and opportunities to where they were before they had to stop working. Alimony recognizes the impossibility of that.

Why is it always assumed that the “sacrificing” spouse furthered the other spouse’s career? I worked in government, my career trajectory was pretty much set. In my specific situation, my ex was more of a detriment to my career. Not only did I work full time, but I also did most of the cooking, cleaning, child-rearing, etc. Yet I would still hear the same argument about what my spouse “gave up,” when in reality they could have gone back to work at any time during the marriage and chose not to.

Because they do. My DH has never taken kids to doctors, any other appointments, parent-teacher conferences, any school functions, sport practices, nothing at all. Doesn't know teachers, coaches, doctors. Has never met any. Doesn't cook nor clean, has no idea about house management, repairs, taxes, mortgage. One of our kids got accepted to gifted program and I had to drive them to-and-from as this wasn't covered by a school bus. When kids were little, he regularly stayed in his office until 11 pm so that he didn't have to do anything. I wish I didn't get married and had a career instead as I did before getting married! No, I didn't know nor did we agree that everything will to be done by me.

I could have written this post + he is constantly out of town for his work. And yet I work full time. I feel very stressed and exhausted all the time. I look at my calendar and its all full with work meetings, doctor's appointments, school activities. I even have to put stuff like *go grocery shopping* on my calendar because ill just forget and there isn't anything to eat. I cook a lot too as I just cannot eat junk food or take outs.
The work situation is also not great. I do not have a career, just a job to pay bills. He makes 3 times than me. I have some health issues too. This capitalistic society is not good for anyone, either SAHP or working parents. I am constantly in survival mode.

With all due respect, some of us working parents with spouses who do their share aren't struggling. I get it that it's easier to blame the system than to look inside how you got where you are, but it's not necessarily the truth. Why did you have multiple kids with someone who wasn't willing to do anything with them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why 50/50 on assets plus child support isn’t what you should expect. Alimony is an injustice to any person. The marriage is over, but then financially everyone pretends like it isn’t?

Except that one spouse is forced to absorb all the downside of supporting and sacrificing for the other’s career opportunities while the other harvests all the upside. You can’t make it be over unless you have a magical time machine that resets the spouse’s age and opportunities to where they were before they had to stop working. Alimony recognizes the impossibility of that.

Why is it always assumed that the “sacrificing” spouse furthered the other spouse’s career? I worked in government, my career trajectory was pretty much set. In my specific situation, my ex was more of a detriment to my career. Not only did I work full time, but I also did most of the cooking, cleaning, child-rearing, etc. Yet I would still hear the same argument about what my spouse “gave up,” when in reality they could have gone back to work at any time during the marriage and chose not to.

Because they do. My DH has never taken kids to doctors, any other appointments, parent-teacher conferences, any school functions, sport practices, nothing at all. Doesn't know teachers, coaches, doctors. Has never met any. Doesn't cook nor clean, has no idea about house management, repairs, taxes, mortgage. One of our kids got accepted to gifted program and I had to drive them to-and-from as this wasn't covered by a school bus. When kids were little, he regularly stayed in his office until 11 pm so that he didn't have to do anything. I wish I didn't get married and had a career instead as I did before getting married! No, I didn't know nor did we agree that everything will to be done by me.

I could have written this post + he is constantly out of town for his work. And yet I work full time. I feel very stressed and exhausted all the time. I look at my calendar and its all full with work meetings, doctor's appointments, school activities. I even have to put stuff like *go grocery shopping* on my calendar because ill just forget and there isn't anything to eat. I cook a lot too as I just cannot eat junk food or take outs.
The work situation is also not great. I do not have a career, just a job to pay bills. He makes 3 times than me. I have some health issues too. This capitalistic society is not good for anyone, either SAHP or working parents. I am constantly in survival mode.

OP simply didn't want to work--I read the first few pages of this thread before I got bored and saw how she writes, definitely the SAHM type. Good luck, you will need it.

Yes, the corporate grind is hard as a mom, but at least you end up much smarter and more savvy than you would have been if you didn't work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This also leads to a bigger question that I actually was debating with my DH earlier today. I don't think a DH leaves his family and wife who wants the marriage to remain intact unless he has something or someone waiting in the wings. This is where the fidelity issue comes in or the fact that something was going on that the family wasn't aware of which could help with leverage in any settlement.

The only non-infidelity story I’ve hear is my one.

Mine left after he decided he wanted to retire at 55 without telling me. Then I got cc’ed on meeting notes from a conversation he had with our joint finanical advisor who said our retirement savings were off track and he would have to do x, y and z to sustain us through retirement if he wanted to be done at 55.

Instead, exDH apparently spent a week doing the math, realized that he could retire at 55 if he cut me loose after a major raise he was anticipating, and filed a few weeks before that raise would hit. Not sure how other jurisdictions do it but in mine, income after filing date is the earners’ and no longer marital.

Highly effective retirement savings strategy, btw.

I call BS. Were you somehow a major drain on finances that divorcing and retiring would be cheaper than just retiring? Or did he intend to divorce all along, and just picked the optimal moment for him to do so? I am a primary breadwinner, and I don’t see how divorcing and giving up part of our joint assets could make my retirement more affordable.

No BS, I wish. It may have been his intention for a while but I’ll never know. Our assets were relatively compared to his salary potential. Otherwise you’re right that it wouldn’t make sense. He walked out at an inflection point.

We had also paused contributions at a higher rate and contributed the minimum for 18 months to move liquidity into buying a house he really wanted, with the plan to increase contributions after the purchase.

I believe that when he looked at the reality of investing for two versus investing for one and saw an excuse to sell the house (which he thought he wanted but was overwhelmed by) without exposing that he couldn’t handle it, and then had his promotion track confirmed, it dawned on him that he had a face-saving way out of the entire situation.

PP. it’s still a crazy story. I don’t think you are lying, but he most likely was contemplating a divorce for a while. I mean, even ignoring all the logistical and emotional benefits of staying married, from the financial standpoint, it’s definitely better to stay married unless a spouse somehow triggers costs.

You’re replying to me. I’ve turned it over every which way and I have a few thoughts. First, one of my dear friends who DH also knew received a surprise divorce announcement from her DH 6 weeks before mine filed. This was quite shocking as they were sort of the ideal couple in our circle. DH also has many out-of-state friends from college who divorced with kids with a certain degree of casual callousness (very Belle Burden) in recent years. The men went off to live bachelor lives with high spending and travel, and big career gains, or at least that’s the part my DH saw and maybe envied.

My theories:

1) my friend’s divorce kind of put him over the top in terms of him allowing himself permission to consider something that may have been seeded by his friends long before.

2) our DCs had just switched private schools and didn’t follow normal feeder patterns because of our move. If he’d been planning it for a while, I think DH realized he could finally do so in between school years for minimal social censure.

3) his career hit a unique inflection point at this exact same time and he was put on an executive track that changed his compensation mix. With everything else lined up, securing sole ownership of significant deferred compensation probably gave him a now-or-never mentality. The split of shared total assets I’ll get? Less than what he’ll make in one year starting now.

With hindsight I can point out signs here and there that he was sometimes self-centered or prioritized his life over mine, but nothing that predicted that he’d bail this far in and leave me with comparatively little.

It’s been interesting to quietly share my story with people and hear similar stories in return. My experience is more common than I’d imagined but also met with such incredulity and even shaming that most of us keep it quiet.

In a similar situation as a SAHM. Are there any lawyers (Fairfax County) that are especially good at representing women in this kind of situation?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Married 20 years and got alimony for 10 years, until youngest was 16. The decision we made TOGETHER for me to do majority of parenting was honored. Also got over 50% of his retirement and full ownership of home.
Aim high.

depends if your degree was considered that you are eligible to get a reliable job. In my case that was the reason and I was able to save paying for spousal support because she had Masters degree and chose not to work even when parenting wasn't a major responsibility and kids are out of house.

Staying at home isn't just parenting. A master's degree alone isn't enough if she hasn't worked in 20+ years. And, you both choose for her not to work. Were you willing to step down in your career and be home by 5-6 PM to get kids from day care and drop them off between 7-9 at day care? What about when they are MS and HS, driving them to activities, some right after school?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

STOP THIS MISOGYNISTIC BS. IT’S SO GOD DAMNED TIRED.

Sorry the truth hurts. Most of these women would work dead end retail jobs for the rest of their lives.

This area is the most highly educated in the country. Many women who stay home have graduate and professional degrees. It is super common. Your circle must be a huge outlier if that is what you think about women in this area.

Except some of us would have had to keep up our professional licenses, and we'd still go back and make about 70-80K as you basically have to start over if you aren't in a high-paying profession.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

STOP THIS MISOGYNISTIC BS. IT’S SO GOD DAMNED TIRED.

Sorry the truth hurts. Most of these women would work dead end retail jobs for the rest of their lives.

This area is the most highly educated in the country. Many women who stay home have graduate and professional degrees. It is super common. Your circle must be a huge outlier if that is what you think about women in this area.

At look at the attrition rate of women who finish medical school and then are ready to downgrade or drop out of the profession after 5 years. Education and credentials do not change the original premise that the preference for a lot of these women is to not work outside of the home. They dress it up it whatever language about "sacrifice" they need to to save face because the prevailing zeitgeist and their peers would look down upon them making such a choice. Easier to shift those negative feelings toward big, bad hubby.

Just look at the huge percentage of men who get married, make babies and then completely drop out from parenting duties. This is absolutely the fault of their lazy, negative wives /former doctors and lawyers to be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

STOP THIS MISOGYNISTIC BS. IT’S SO GOD DAMNED TIRED.

Sorry the truth hurts. Most of these women would work dead end retail jobs for the rest of their lives.

This area is the most highly educated in the country. Many women who stay home have graduate and professional degrees. It is super common. Your circle must be a huge outlier if that is what you think about women in this area.

At look at the attrition rate of women who finish medical school and then are ready to downgrade or drop out of the profession after 5 years. Education and credentials do not change the original premise that the preference for a lot of these women is to not work outside of the home. They dress it up it whatever language about "sacrifice" they need to to save face because the prevailing zeitgeist and their peers would look down upon them making such a choice. Easier to shift those negative feelings toward big, bad hubby.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

STOP THIS MISOGYNISTIC BS. IT’S SO GOD DAMNED TIRED.

Sorry the truth hurts. Most of these women would work dead end retail jobs for the rest of their lives.

This area is the most highly educated in the country. Many women who stay home have graduate and professional degrees. It is super common. Your circle must be a huge outlier if that is what you think about women in this area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

STOP THIS MISOGYNISTIC BS. IT’S SO GOD DAMNED TIRED.

Sorry the truth hurts. Most of these women would work dead end retail jobs for the rest of their lives.

Over half of the students in medical school and top 14 law schools and nearly half of the students in top MBA programs are women.
This is tens of thousands of women with a huge earning potential, and many, many of them are pushed into staying at home or working mommy-tracked part time jobs. That’s why, on average, women in these potentially high earning fields make 75% of what their male counterparts do.

Do you really, really think that none of these women are posting on this board? This doesn’t seem to be a message board filled with women working dead end retail jobs.