Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College isn't a right, it's a luxury good.

There are many, many reasons it is unaffordable for qualified, motivated students:
-low paying parental jobs (even if they are noble)
-health care costs/medical emergencies
-layoffs/unemployment/redirecting careers
-caring for multiple generations, children, etc.

There are also many, many ways to make it a reality - even if you aren't rich.

In most European countries, colleges are free or affordable for citizens. In the current world, college is a privilege only in USA. So is med care. Isn't this system failure?

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry to hear NPC is not always correct. Ours for ED school was spot on. I wonder if schools try harder to match for ED students.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

I think most people can agree with that. But the point of some of these comments is that the numbers don’t make sense based purely on what you described. $200k income and high home equity with sizable medical expenses mixed in (which are generally considered) doesn’t get you a $75k bill. So the point people are making is that there are some other assets somewhere. Whether these are easily usable for college is unknown but there is some part of the picture that is missing.

Did you run the Cornell NPC? Because it literally does.

Yes, twice and it literally doesn’t.

Zip code: 22207
Two siblings, 14 y/o
AGI: $176,000 (accounts for maxing out 403b plans)
Federal tax payment: $21,500
Interest and dividend income: 0
Business losses: 0
Educational tax credits: 0
Untaxed income, benefits, and retirement plan contributions: $49,000 403b contribution + $11,000 pension contribution = $60,000
No child support
Cash savings: $25,000
Current home value: $1 million
Home purchase price: $400,000
Owe on house: $225,000
Current home equity: $775,000
Year of home purchase: 2007
Current investments (includes applicant’s 529): $65,000
Sibling assets: $130,000 (529s)
Private school tuition: $0
No student income or assets

Estimated net price: $67,820
No business/farm/other real estate

Ohhh I see, the missing part is that the parents are saving for a multimillion retirement that can’t be reduced for any time and OP apparently confused the numbers 68 and 75. Got it.

It makes zero difference for financial aid purposes if the family has an AGI of $225,000 and contributing nothing to retirement or has an AGI of $176,000 because they’re maxing out their retirement contributions. The untaxed contributions are added back and treated as available income. So everything is still the same EFC wise either way. Don’t worry, families are not “rewarded” for saving for retirement.

The $11k pension is not part of that. If you put these exact numbers in but with AGI of $225k, 0 for retirement, and the tax savings from the retirement contributions added back to the federal income tax amount it spits out ~$56k. Including the $11k in pension makes them assume the income is higher than $225k. OP said “just over” $200k not $236k. This difference isn’t trivial.

Not sure why people are so desperate to try to come up with a $75k bill when under all sorts of assumptions it comes in lower. Clearly there are other assets that OP’s sister has that are impacting the number, and that the school thinks is relevant to their ability to pay.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

I think most people can agree with that. But the point of some of these comments is that the numbers don’t make sense based purely on what you described. $200k income and high home equity with sizable medical expenses mixed in (which are generally considered) doesn’t get you a $75k bill. So the point people are making is that there are some other assets somewhere. Whether these are easily usable for college is unknown but there is some part of the picture that is missing.

Did you run the Cornell NPC? Because it literally does.

Yes, twice and it literally doesn’t.

Zip code: 22207
Two siblings, 14 y/o
AGI: $176,000 (accounts for maxing out 403b plans)
Federal tax payment: $21,500
Interest and dividend income: 0
Business losses: 0
Educational tax credits: 0
Untaxed income, benefits, and retirement plan contributions: $49,000 403b contribution + $11,000 pension contribution = $60,000
No child support
Cash savings: $25,000
Current home value: $1 million
Home purchase price: $400,000
Owe on house: $225,000
Current home equity: $775,000
Year of home purchase: 2007
Current investments (includes applicant’s 529): $65,000
Sibling assets: $130,000 (529s)
Private school tuition: $0
No student income or assets

Estimated net price: $67,820
No business/farm/other real estate

Ohhh I see, the missing part is that the parents are saving for a multimillion retirement that can’t be reduced for any time and OP apparently confused the numbers 68 and 75. Got it.

It makes zero difference for financial aid purposes if the family has an AGI of $225,000 and contributing nothing to retirement or has an AGI of $176,000 because they’re maxing out their retirement contributions. The untaxed contributions are added back and treated as available income. So everything is still the same EFC wise either way. Don’t worry, families are not “rewarded” for saving for retirement.

Anonymous wrote:I put 185k income and 500k of assets and got 65k at yale

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

Not to be a turd by why do the schools "owe" you aid? Going to an Ivy is a privilege, not a right. If you can't make it work, I'm sorry. Lots of other great schools out there that might be cheaper.

And sorry if people have multiple kids. Should have thought about that before having more kids (I feel a bit worse for those with twins). I knew what I wanted to be able to pay for for my kids and that having more than two kids would prohibit that, so we stopped at two. Three would have been nice but the sacrifices weren't worth it. Plus the fact that you get more aid if you have two kids in college at the same time but less if kids are further apart? That makes no sense.

Because we as a country still like to believe in the myth of meritocracy, that elite college slots goes to those who earned it on merit, and that college is the gateway to upward social mobility. And these elite institutions with more money than entire countries pay virtually no taxes on the assumption that they're doing a public good and serving society.

And it's very fair to question the outrageous cost of higher education. It's like this nowhere else in the world. Even UVA in-state is over $40,000 per year. That is not accessible or affordable to the vast majority of Virginians. An undergrad can't borrow enough to cover even a quarter of that.

Upward social mobility isn't always zero to sixty in one step. Sometimes it is multi-generational. Poor FGLI kid goes to a good state school to step up the social class ladder. Then perhaps their kid makes the next jump to Ivies.

I am supportive of financial aid and helping families. But I think that schools have gone overboard with the virtue signaling and tripping over themselves to attract low income families. Some number of them is great, particularly the many who truly deserve to be there - as you said, "meritocracy." But diversity for the sake of diversity, which is currently often the case, is going too far. I think the NY Times had an article a year or two ago basically shaming schools for not having enough poor kids. Really? If it was zero I would get it. But they all had a fair amount and the Times was making huge generalizations saying the school with 12% is much worse than the one with 14%, which is basically statistical noise and still more than enough. I say this as a lifelong Democrat.

This is a weird take. Most people acknowledge that smart kids with raw talent can come from any income group. Most people who go to an elite college want to be surrounded by the best and the brightest. If only kids whose parents can afford nearly 100k per year to attend, the students won’t be the best and the brightest, and it won’t be the educational experience marketed.

Right now, most ivies have only about half of families receiving ANY aid at all. That means half come from families making enough money to shell out around 100k a year. That’s an insanely out-of-whack distribution. It means that most students come from the top 5% in terms of wealth, even though intelligence isn’t distributed accordingly. That’s worthy of criticism. It’s especially worthy of criticism when these schools have tens of billions in assets shielded from tax liability but exist to overwhelmingly serve the rich. It’s not right.

Anonymous wrote:Why are people splitting hairs over this?

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

I think most people can agree with that. But the point of some of these comments is that the numbers don’t make sense based purely on what you described. $200k income and high home equity with sizable medical expenses mixed in (which are generally considered) doesn’t get you a $75k bill. So the point people are making is that there are some other assets somewhere. Whether these are easily usable for college is unknown but there is some part of the picture that is missing.

Did you run the Cornell NPC? Because it literally does.

Yes, twice and it literally doesn’t.

Zip code: 22207
Two siblings, 14 y/o
AGI: $176,000 (accounts for maxing out 403b plans)
Federal tax payment: $21,500
Interest and dividend income: 0
Business losses: 0
Educational tax credits: 0
Untaxed income, benefits, and retirement plan contributions: $49,000 403b contribution + $11,000 pension contribution = $60,000
No child support
Cash savings: $25,000
Current home value: $1 million
Home purchase price: $400,000
Owe on house: $225,000
Current home equity: $775,000
Year of home purchase: 2007
Current investments (includes applicant’s 529): $65,000
Sibling assets: $130,000 (529s)
Private school tuition: $0
No student income or assets

Estimated net price: $67,820
No business/farm/other real estate

Ohhh I see, the missing part is that the parents are saving for a multimillion retirement that can’t be reduced for any time and OP apparently confused the numbers 68 and 75. Got it.

It makes zero difference for financial aid purposes if the family has an AGI of $225,000 and contributing nothing to retirement or has an AGI of $176,000 because they’re maxing out their retirement contributions. The untaxed contributions are added back and treated as available income. So everything is still the same EFC wise either way. Don’t worry, families are not “rewarded” for saving for retirement.

Doesn't AGI $176,000 fall into "under 200K HHI" for tuition free?

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

I think most people can agree with that. But the point of some of these comments is that the numbers don’t make sense based purely on what you described. $200k income and high home equity with sizable medical expenses mixed in (which are generally considered) doesn’t get you a $75k bill. So the point people are making is that there are some other assets somewhere. Whether these are easily usable for college is unknown but there is some part of the picture that is missing.

Did you run the Cornell NPC? Because it literally does.

Yes, twice and it literally doesn’t.

Zip code: 22207
Two siblings, 14 y/o
AGI: $176,000 (accounts for maxing out 403b plans)
Federal tax payment: $21,500
Interest and dividend income: 0
Business losses: 0
Educational tax credits: 0
Untaxed income, benefits, and retirement plan contributions: $49,000 403b contribution + $11,000 pension contribution = $60,000
No child support
Cash savings: $25,000
Current home value: $1 million
Home purchase price: $400,000
Owe on house: $225,000
Current home equity: $775,000
Year of home purchase: 2007
Current investments (includes applicant’s 529): $65,000
Sibling assets: $130,000 (529s)
Private school tuition: $0
No student income or assets

Estimated net price: $67,820
No business/farm/other real estate

Ohhh I see, the missing part is that the parents are saving for a multimillion retirement that can’t be reduced for any time and OP apparently confused the numbers 68 and 75. Got it.

It makes zero difference for financial aid purposes if the family has an AGI of $225,000 and contributing nothing to retirement or has an AGI of $176,000 because they’re maxing out their retirement contributions. The untaxed contributions are added back and treated as available income. So everything is still the same EFC wise either way. Don’t worry, families are not “rewarded” for saving for retirement.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

I think most people can agree with that. But the point of some of these comments is that the numbers don’t make sense based purely on what you described. $200k income and high home equity with sizable medical expenses mixed in (which are generally considered) doesn’t get you a $75k bill. So the point people are making is that there are some other assets somewhere. Whether these are easily usable for college is unknown but there is some part of the picture that is missing.

Did you run the Cornell NPC? Because it literally does.

Yes, twice and it literally doesn’t.

Zip code: 22207
Two siblings, 14 y/o
AGI: $176,000 (accounts for maxing out 403b plans)
Federal tax payment: $21,500
Interest and dividend income: 0
Business losses: 0
Educational tax credits: 0
Untaxed income, benefits, and retirement plan contributions: $49,000 403b contribution + $11,000 pension contribution = $60,000
No child support
Cash savings: $25,000
Current home value: $1 million
Home purchase price: $400,000
Owe on house: $225,000
Current home equity: $775,000
Year of home purchase: 2007
Current investments (includes applicant’s 529): $65,000
Sibling assets: $130,000 (529s)
Private school tuition: $0
No student income or assets

Estimated net price: $67,820
No business/farm/other real estate

If you’re making retirement contributions, schools rightly expect you to stop that and redirect the cash to college. You can’t tell the college that your budget is tight while you defer 25% of your income to retirement savings. No donor would appreciate their funds being used that way.